The Alfie conundrum

[JonnyD]

Wasn't steffon's USP in his England days his jackaling / breakdown work?


Presumably he's moved to 8 with age

Yes dead right wasps, he was the jackaling guy. I didn’t realise he was still playing until I saw the Biarritz team. Not sure if Delon has retired? And Guy?

Yes Delon only recently retired after a stint at Lyon, started his own company coaching I believe back in the UK.
Guy is still in Toulouse playing RL

[Beasties]

We know from this season you need at least 6 front line back rowers to be able to be competitive even when injuries and england / international call ups come, I don't think there is necessarily  such thing as a first choice 3 anymore.

This, all day long.

As a one off, Tom Willis starts and Alfie on the bench. All things being equal right now I’d start Young, T & J Willis, but that would be if they were all fit and firing 100%. But they’re not so the question doesn’t actually exist in the real world.

[Chunky24]

We know from this season you need at least 6 front line back rowers to be able to be competitive even when injuries and england / international call ups come, I don't think there is necessarily  such thing as a first choice 3 anymore.

Yes, but my question was about a one off game rather than what's required for a season
 I.e. a final


You still need to have a first choice team that you'll pick for that must win game

The one name for this one off game, given all players form and fitness being equal and opposition no consideration, I would have on my team sheet would be Brad Shields, perm any 2 from Jack, Tom, Alfie, Thomas, Vaea, Ben, Nizaam and I would be quite happy.

If you are going to push me then Jack (jackler) and Alfie (carrier) join Brad (unseen stuff) with Tom and either Vaea or Thomas on the bench depending on opposition / remainder of bench composition.

[DGP Wasp]

I posted this back on 21st March on another thread that tried to find an answer to Wasps erratic form and inconsistent results:

"I know this is an all too simplistic explanation, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Alfie Barbeary.

He's played more than 60 minutes in 5 games since returning from injury (63 mins + 74 mins + 3 x 80 mins).  We have won all 5.
Of the 6 other games (excluding Prem Cup) since then, (34 mins + 39 mins + 4 x 0 mins)  We have won 1 (Sarries) and lost 5.

Coincidence?  I guess we find out now we have him back from Eddie's evil clutches!"

Since then we've won 3 from 3 and Alfie has played all but a few minutes of those 3 games. 

I agree that Tom W's form is if anything more deserving of the 8 shirt, and Jack W and Brad are almost automatic picks, but it's impossible to ignore that we do better with Alfie on the field.

[Jac A]

I posted this back on 21st March on another thread that tried to find an answer to Wasps erratic form and inconsistent results:

"I know this is an all too simplistic explanation, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Alfie Barbeary.

He's played more than 60 minutes in 5 games since returning from injury (63 mins + 74 mins + 3 x 80 mins).  We have won all 5.
Of the 6 other games (excluding Prem Cup) since then, (34 mins + 39 mins + 4 x 0 mins)  We have won 1 (Sarries) and lost 5.

Coincidence?  I guess we find out now we have him back from Eddie's evil clutches!"

Since then we've won 3 from 3 and Alfie has played all but a few minutes of those 3 games. 

I agree that Tom W's form is if anything more deserving of the 8 shirt, and Jack W and Brad are almost automatic picks, but it's impossible to ignore that we do better with Alfie on the field.

+1
I think this is an interesting point (but then I would as I'm a bit of a data geek).

Looking at percentages
% games won with Alfie stating this season = 78%
% game won without Alfie starting = 37%

There are a couple of others that seem whose presence seems to bode well

Launch
With = 86% won
Without = 38% won

Fekitoa
With = 100% won
Without = 39% won

In terms of the backrow I'm in the camp that doesn't mind as all our options are extremely good and over the course of a season all with get used. I would however, not be averse to a bit of rotation as even though all these games are important and 'must win', making sure that everyone stays match fit and doesn't get too exhausted will be important.

[Shugs]

Interesting stats. Injuries/internationals etc etc mean that we absolutely need all our back rowers. The skill that Blackett and his back room team need to deploy is keeping the likes of Tom Willis and Nizaam Carr happy. It’s obvious that chips down, must win, pick your best team Blackett has gone Barbeary. There is the modern ethos of starters and finishers which I don’t really buy - nine times out of ten you start what you consider your best 15. It seems a happy squad so I don’t see any issues - it’s certainly a nice problem to have.

[Heathen]

For Saturday, how about Alfie 6, Brad 7 and Tom at 8. Fifita and Jack on the bench.

I would also like to see Dan Frost start the game and have Gabby on the bench.
 
But then I don't pick the team!

[baldpaul101]

Also none of us know which players thrive on playing every week & which ones need regular rest or what injuries some players may be carrying that mean they are better starting games after a thorough warm up rather than coming on "cold".

[Chunky24]

For Saturday, how about Alfie 6, Brad 7 and Tom at 8. Fifita and Jack on the bench.

I would also like to see Dan Frost start the game and have Gabby on the bench.
 
But then I don't pick the team!

Think we would be lacking at breakdowns there with no Jack / Thomas Young to slow down / steal ball as was the case when both these not available during the season and opposition got quick ball too easily. I would always try to have players in the back row whose primary roles were each a jackaller / breakdown nuisance, a big carrier and an unseen / non glamorous worker, for me that balance allows each to do their own primary role thanks to the others.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Also none of us know which players thrive on playing every week & which ones need regular rest or what injuries some players may be carrying that mean they are better starting games after a thorough warm up rather than coming on "cold".

Now that there is so much choice it might make sense to rest key players that have niggles rather than risk losing them for the rest of the season.

Lots for the coaches to think about and far better than having to play those that are available with niggles.

[wasps]

I posted this back on 21st March on another thread that tried to find an answer to Wasps erratic form and inconsistent results:

"I know this is an all too simplistic explanation, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Alfie Barbeary.

He's played more than 60 minutes in 5 games since returning from injury (63 mins + 74 mins + 3 x 80 mins).  We have won all 5.
Of the 6 other games (excluding Prem Cup) since then, (34 mins + 39 mins + 4 x 0 mins)  We have won 1 (Sarries) and lost 5.

Coincidence?  I guess we find out now we have him back from Eddie's evil clutches!"

Since then we've won 3 from 3 and Alfie has played all but a few minutes of those 3 games. 

I agree that Tom W's form is if anything more deserving of the 8 shirt, and Jack W and Brad are almost automatic picks, but it's impossible to ignore that we do better with Alfie on the field.

+1
I think this is an interesting point (but then I would as I'm a bit of a data geek).

Looking at percentages
% games won with Alfie stating this season = 78%
% game won without Alfie starting = 37%

There are a couple of others that seem whose presence seems to bode well

Launch
With = 86% won
Without = 38% won

Fekitoa
With = 100% won
Without = 39% won

In terms of the backrow I'm in the camp that doesn't mind as all our options are extremely good and over the course of a season all with get used. I would however, not be averse to a bit of rotation as even though all these games are important and 'must win', making sure that everyone stays match fit and doesn't get too exhausted will be important.

I'd be interested to know the numbers for Brad


It's often said his much better we are as a team when he's playing.
But do we win as often when he starts as it feels that we do?

[Chunky24]

I posted this back on 21st March on another thread that tried to find an answer to Wasps erratic form and inconsistent results:

"I know this is an all too simplistic explanation, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Alfie Barbeary.

He's played more than 60 minutes in 5 games since returning from injury (63 mins + 74 mins + 3 x 80 mins).  We have won all 5.
Of the 6 other games (excluding Prem Cup) since then, (34 mins + 39 mins + 4 x 0 mins)  We have won 1 (Sarries) and lost 5.

Coincidence?  I guess we find out now we have him back from Eddie's evil clutches!"

Since then we've won 3 from 3 and Alfie has played all but a few minutes of those 3 games. 

I agree that Tom W's form is if anything more deserving of the 8 shirt, and Jack W and Brad are almost automatic picks, but it's impossible to ignore that we do better with Alfie on the field.

+1
I think this is an interesting point (but then I would as I'm a bit of a data geek).

Looking at percentages
% games won with Alfie stating this season = 78%
% game won without Alfie starting = 37%

There are a couple of others that seem whose presence seems to bode well

Launch
With = 86% won
Without = 38% won

Fekitoa
With = 100% won
Without = 39% won

In terms of the backrow I'm in the camp that doesn't mind as all our options are extremely good and over the course of a season all with get used. I would however, not be averse to a bit of rotation as even though all these games are important and 'must win', making sure that everyone stays match fit and doesn't get too exhausted will be important.

I'd be interested to know the numbers for Brad


It's often said his much better we are as a team when he's playing.
But do we win as often when he starts as it feels that we do?

His numbers will be virtually the teams numbers given the number of games he has played, not sure his win ratio will be that high but his keeping us in games ratio might be!

[Jac A]

I'd be interested to know the numbers for Brad

It's often said his much better we are as a team when he's playing.
But do we win as often when he starts as it feels that we do?

Brad stats

Starts at:
4 - 1
6 - 15
7 - 2
8 - 2

Games won when he started - 55% (12/22)
Games won when he didn't start - 29% (2/7)* those two wins were the recent Prem Cup games so if you remove the four Prem Cup games when we have not played a first team he has only missed 3 games - all of which we lost (Quins away, Bris away and Saracens** again weakened team)

NB this season we are exactly 50%

Premiership - 10 from 20
Prem Cup - 2 from 4
Europe - 2 from 4

So Brad just ahead of the curve.

[Peej]

I posted this back on 21st March on another thread that tried to find an answer to Wasps erratic form and inconsistent results:

"I know this is an all too simplistic explanation, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Alfie Barbeary.

He's played more than 60 minutes in 5 games since returning from injury (63 mins + 74 mins + 3 x 80 mins).  We have won all 5.
Of the 6 other games (excluding Prem Cup) since then, (34 mins + 39 mins + 4 x 0 mins)  We have won 1 (Sarries) and lost 5.

Coincidence?  I guess we find out now we have him back from Eddie's evil clutches!"

Since then we've won 3 from 3 and Alfie has played all but a few minutes of those 3 games. 

I agree that Tom W's form is if anything more deserving of the 8 shirt, and Jack W and Brad are almost automatic picks, but it's impossible to ignore that we do better with Alfie on the field.

+1
I think this is an interesting point (but then I would as I'm a bit of a data geek).

Looking at percentages
% games won with Alfie stating this season = 78%
% game won without Alfie starting = 37%

There are a couple of others that seem whose presence seems to bode well

Launch
With = 86% won
Without = 38% won

Fekitoa
With = 100% won
Without = 39% won

In terms of the backrow I'm in the camp that doesn't mind as all our options are extremely good and over the course of a season all with get used. I would however, not be averse to a bit of rotation as even though all these games are important and 'must win', making sure that everyone stays match fit and doesn't get too exhausted will be important.

I'd be interested to know the numbers for Brad


It's often said his much better we are as a team when he's playing.
But do we win as often when he starts as it feels that we do?

His numbers will be virtually the teams numbers given the number of games he has played, not sure his win ratio will be that high but his keeping us in games ratio might be!

The three players originally quoted have also played half a season or less, and are benefiting from a team-wide upturn - which of vourse they have contributed to