The Alfie conundrum

[wasps]

I've often said on here that I feel that Tom Willis is our best No8.
I feel that his control at the base of the scrum and pick'n go decision making is excellent.


However, it's getting harder to leave Alfie out of the team.




If we had a final to win and everyone was fully fit and available, where does Alfie fit?


I feel that for a one off important game, we need Brad Shields.
Jack is also a match winner so gets the 7 shirt.


Does Alfie start at 8 to get him on the pitch, even if he may not be the best 8 at the club?






Does anyone still feel that he's a hooker?
He certainly doesn't seem to see himself in the front row these days, and has said that he barely played there at youth level anyway.


I think they references to centre are rather tongue in cheek.






So, does Alfie start at 8 in place of Tom?

[Shugs]

This may be controversial but strictly on form I think our current best back row would be Barbeary 6, Shields 7 and T Willis 8. I think J Willis will eventually be a must pick but I sense he’s (understandably) still just finding his way a bit. The way the game has changed and his injury have reduced his turnover effectiveness for the time being. He’ll be fully back soon enough and in time I think both he and Barbeary will feature in the next England squad.

[Rossm]

I think any oppo would prefer that Alfie starts. A raging Alfie coming off the bench, with 20/30 minutes to go, would be frightening indeed.

[wasps]

This may be controversial but strictly on form I think our current best back row would be Barbeary 6, Shields 7 and T Willis 8. I think J Willis will eventually be a must pick but I sense he’s (understandably) still just finding his way a bit. The way the game has changed and his injury have reduced his turnover effectiveness for the time being. He’ll be fully back soon enough and in time I think both he and Barbeary will feature in the next England squad.

I can see that Jack isn't at his previous best yet..
 But wouldn't Young be the next best 7?

[Chunky24]

We know from this season you need at least 6 front line back rowers to be able to be competitive even when injuries and england / international call ups come, I don't think there is necessarily  such thing as a first choice 3 anymore.

[13thWarrior]

This may be controversial but strictly on form I think our current best back row would be Barbeary 6, Shields 7 and T Willis 8. I think J Willis will eventually be a must pick but I sense he’s (understandably) still just finding his way a bit. The way the game has changed and his injury have reduced his turnover effectiveness for the time being. He’ll be fully back soon enough and in time I think both he and Barbeary will feature in the next England squad.

I'd agree that these 3 are probably the most on-form, but I'd worry it leaves us short of a work-horse/scavenger in the pack. Perhaps compensated if Oghre is hooker as he does a lot of work at the breakdown on both sides of the ball. But it is good to have something like Shields, J Willis, then either of our ball-carrying 8s, as it frees the latter up to focus on those opportunities with the ball in hand.

[wasps]

We know from this season you need at least 6 front line back rowers to be able to be competitive even when injuries and england / international call ups come, I don't think there is necessarily  such thing as a first choice 3 anymore.

Yes, but my question was about a one off game rather than what's required for a season
 I.e. a final


You still need to have a first choice team that you'll pick for that must win game

[westwaleswasp]

We don't ever seem to have the luxury of a fully fit back row compliment, so I will take them all, thank you!

[Rugbyintheblood]

I've often said on here that I feel that Tom Willis is our best No8.
I feel that his control at the base of the scrum and pick'n go decision making is excellent.


However, it's getting harder to leave Alfie out of the team.




If we had a final to win and everyone was fully fit and available, where does Alfie fit?


I feel that for a one off important game, we need Brad Shields.
Jack is also a match winner so gets the 7 shirt.


Does Alfie start at 8 to get him on the pitch, even if he may not be the best 8 at the club?






Does anyone still feel that he's a hooker?
He certainly doesn't seem to see himself in the front row these days, and has said that he barely played there at youth level anyway.


I think they references to centre are rather tongue in cheek.






So, does Alfie start at 8 in place of Tom?

Well of course it’s weird we’re even having this debate the day after he’s scored a hat trick of tries against Biarritz.

Ironically, Alfie reminds me a lot of Steffon Armitage who played 8 for Biarritz last night. Although the latter is now towards the end of his playing career, when he was Alfie’s age I watched him play many times in the back row for London Irish. Although I thought Steffon would get many England caps, I seem to recall it turned out to be very few. I always wondered if he had played hooker (as his body type suggested), would he have been a British Lion? Well we’ll never know.

As I’ve previously posted on this forum, I think physically Alfie would make a fantastic hooker, but if he’s keen to be seen as an 8, then who am I to argue. It’s his choice - as it was with Steffon.

[wasps]

Wasn't steffon's USP in his England days his jackaling / breakdown work?


Presumably he's moved to 8 with age

[Rugbyintheblood]

Wasn't steffon's USP in his England days his jackaling / breakdown work?


Presumably he's moved to 8 with age

Yes dead right wasps, he was the jackaling guy. I didn’t realise he was still playing until I saw the Biarritz team. Not sure if Delon has retired? And Guy?

[13thWarrior]

Wasn't steffon's USP in his England days his jackaling / breakdown work?


Presumably he's moved to 8 with age

Once he moved to France he transitioned to 8, not sure if he or Toulon instigated it

[coddy]

I think the most important thing is that Wasps keep hold of Jack, Tom and Alfie for the next 7 or 8 years and by that I mean keep them fit and motivated as well as ward off other clubs trying to poach them away.

Brad is 31, Young is off to Cardiff so the 3 guys above shouldnt be worried about who starts, who's on the bench and who is rested as they all should know they are an integral part of Wasps pack both now and for the future.

[hookender]

I think the most important thing is that Wasps keep hold of Jack, Tom and Alfie for the next 7 or 8 years and by that I mean keep them fit and motivated as well as ward off other clubs trying to poach them away.

Brad is 31, Young is off to Cardiff so the 3 guys above shouldnt be worried about who starts, who's on the bench and who is rested as they all should know they are an integral part of Wasps pack both now and for the future.

If ( and a big if ) we were to be in a final for silverware this season and all back row are fit, would you choose Young? Would it be for a fitting end/recognition for his service to the club , or give the place to one who is staying as an incentive for more success/potential loyalty?

[Wiltshire Wasp]

Allowing for the big if of getting there, I think we should choose the team based on the combination that we (Lee) thinks stands the best chance of winning.