London Irish v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts

[Wombles]

Only ourselves to blame.

Good job top 8 go into the Heineken Cup.

Irish deserve the draw, we were lucky to get a draw.

To go 25 points into the lead and then let it all go by shipping 28 points in the final quarter is absolutely criminal, you cannot hide from that, I mean this as no disservice to Irish who went the whole 80 and more, but that was amateur from our lads to throw that away. As the bench came on the levels of performance palpably dropped, from control we were lost intensity, the scrum failed, the wide channels became wide open, the defensive intensity went AWOL. You cannot begrudge the final result as, frankly, we got exactly what we deserved.

Was it complacency? was it a collective turning off of brains? No game is ever over, but to snatch a draw from victory is shameful. Top 6 is exceptionally unlikely now and we are going to have to go all out to get in the Heineken cup. For the last few games the first 20 of the second half we lost our way, and then clawed it back, today we moved it to the final 20 and there is no way to respond to that.

This game is going to be needed to serve as a rocket to the team as a whole, and especially the bench players. The bench should ADD to a performance not cause the opposite. If we harbour any hopes of winning the Challenge cup then we can NEVER allow these 20 minute periods to happen, NEVER allow performance and intensity to drop like it did as the bench came on, and NEVER give up a 25 point lead EVER again!

Chris

Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!

[Peej]

That's Europe gone for us I think.

Just not good enough. We have been average and rank terrible for to much of the season, and games like that show how far off the pace we are.

Nothing wrong with the idea of taking  players off, but the players you bring on have to maintain or up the intensity, and ours didn't do that.

Positives? Hougaard has to start in Europe. Stating pack looks mean. But that's about it from a game we should have won, and it's impossible to not be deflated going into knock out rugby.

[Shugs]

There was good in that. But the problem is that what we did now outweighs that. I’m not a fan of pre-planned subs. Robson was bossing it and Gopperth controlling it. Porter just didn’t manage things and I think Hougaard ran out of gas. We are one of the only team capable of throwing a game away like that and we need to address that.

[hopwood]

Before all the dramatic reactions, let’s get some calm.
Yes, poor final 10 minutes, but we absolutely gave it some for 70 minutes.
Let’s not lambast all the players.

Irish are a very very good side. So are we.
The game situation could quite easily have been reversed another weekend and we would be celebrating an amazing comeback.

But the key thing here is….WE WILL LEARN SO MUCH FROM THIS GAME. 
We still took 3 points.
We probably wouldn’t have made TOP 4 anyway.

But….this game will give us so much insight and experience.
I mean…it could be defining in how we progress.
Last minute pain can really unite and bond a team. It can really reveal where we need to strengthen our game to be a complete side.

I’m not worried.
Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
Irish were fantastic in the final 10 minutes, just as we have been in games of the past.

Take a breath. Chill.
Let’s build and move on.

[Wombles]

We can still get into Europe as Irish have only one game left and us two. However we are going to need to beat Sale and get something from Tigers which will be exceptionally hard.

We can win the challenge cup, but we need a more complete performance and the bench to ADD something when we play against Edinburgh as they are a tough nut to crack!

[Peej]

Before all the dramatic reactions, let’s get some calm.
Yes, poor final 10 minutes, but we absolutely gave it some for 70 minutes.
Let’s not lambast all the players.

Irish are a very very good side. So are we.
The game situation could quite easily have been reversed another weekend and we would be celebrating an amazing comeback.

But the key thing here is….WE WILL LEARN SO MUCH FROM THIS GAME. 
We still took 3 points.
We probably wouldn’t have made TOP 4 anyway.

But….this game will give us so much insight and experience.
I mean…it could be defining in how we progress.
Last minute pain can really unite and bond a team. It can really reveal where we need to strengthen our game to be a complete side.

I’m not worried.
Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
Irish were fantastic in the final 10 minutes, just as we have been in games of the past.

Take a breath. Chill.
Let’s build and move on.

Genuinely wish I could be as positive as you. But all I see is a team that has spent the season being close by not good enough. And a worrying return to the last minute bottlers that plagued us in seasons past.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Our bench has got so used to having to turn games round they had no idea how to deal with that situation. In fact the whole team has got so used to scrapping for points they don't know how to close a game out.

There'll be some harsh words, but if I was an Edinburgh fan I'd be concerned, there's a lot of players with a lot to prove.

Other than that:

It was good to see Dan getting some form back.

Well done Ben Harris, a huge shift and he isn't that match fit.

As I said in the match thread Hougaard had a good game and earned a start next week.

Josh doing the hard yards again, as did Brad and Elliot.

[Westy68]

Hopwood how many times do you allow something to happen before you learn from it. We conceded 28 points in 13 minutes.

Lee made bad decisions and players like porter, Paolo and miller-miller lack commitment, as a professional player that is inexcusable. All a fan wants is commitment and too many players who came on did not show that

[Mellie]

This game is going to be needed to serve as a rocket to the team as a whole, and especially the bench players. The bench should ADD to a performance not cause the opposite. If we harbour any hopes of winning the Challenge cup then we can NEVER allow these 20 minute periods to happen, NEVER allow performance and intensity to drop like it did as the bench came on, and NEVER give up a 25 point lead EVER again!

Actually there were a lot of positives but as you say the last 15 minutes were terrible and hopefully everyone learns from it.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Hopwood how many times do you allow something to happen before you learn from it. We conceded 28 points in 13 minutes.

Lee made bad decisions and players like porter, Paolo and miller-miller lack commitment, as a professional player that is inexcusable. All a fan wants is commitment and too many players who came on did not show that

I don't think you can blame Lee for that. What coach wouldn't make changes in that position? And how many time have we praised Porter when he's come on for adding tempo? The problem was the game didn't need tempo, it needed slowing down.

[Wombles]

Perhaps the game as a whole needs to remember that the bench is there if needed, not as a guarantee to be emptied. A bench player needs to add something to a game if called upon, but equally not expect that they will get game time. The mass changes and the planned replacements seem to perennially cause the game to fracture.

We will now see the true nature of this squad, if they harbour any ambition to be at the top vying for silverware and walking out at HQ to try to lift the premiership, or looking to add to a 3rd Heineken cup title, then they will need to absolutely turn up next weekend and make a statement that this week will drive us forward rather than send us back.

6 days to prove that they are winners and the future will be one of titles. I am not being dramatic, but that is how big this game against Edinburgh has become because of today.

[Westy68]

I think lee needs to speak to skivington on how to get a team to never stop.

Gloucester never stopped and just wanted so badly to keep the pressure on bath, even with 2 minutes to go and game comfortably won.

This is an awful trait we have in our club

[Rossm]

One of my pet bugbears is conceding penalty tries. You give the oppo an automatic 7 points despite where the penalty may be given away. Joe definitely pulled their maul down, no argument with that but, and I know it is a very big but, in the heat of the game, why not accept that the try is going to be scored and at the very least try and push the oppo wider, thus putting pressure on their kicker to get the conversion to, in this case, draw the game?  If he'd missed, then we win. Don't make it easy for them.

[hopwood]

Hopwood how many times do you allow something to happen before you learn from it. We conceded 28 points in 13 minutes.

Lee made bad decisions and players like porter, Paolo and miller-miller lack commitment, as a professional player that is inexcusable. All a fan wants is commitment and too many players who came on did not show that

Players don’t make mistakes on purpose. They either don’t have a full understanding of the situation, their technique is poor or there’s some mental fragility in situations under pressure.
That all comes down to coaching.

Before this game, you could have spun a coin to work out who was going to win.
You’re just annoyed that Wasps didn’t have enough in the tank for the last 10 minutes to make good decisions and be at the same level of intensity for the other 70.
But, let’s be honest, they had all emptied their tanks…and everything became disjointed.
That’s what happens when you bring on fresh players who aren’t up to the speed and intensity of the players who have played with blood and guts for the previous 70.
There’s a drop off and lack of understanding.

It’s just life. And we learn from it.
Players and coaches.

Why not just bathe in 70 minutes of brilliant rugby by Wasps…and hope we become the complete 80 minute team.

But stop putting down Irish. They’re an equally good team as us.
They didn’t quite empty the tank as we did in the previous 70….and they had a bit at the end when we were out on our legs.
How often do you see Joe Launchbury’s legs going in the final minute?
Not often.
We were spent….because we gave EVERYTHING for the previous 70.
Maybe we gave too much??

But that’s a coaching issue…and we will learn.

[Westy68]

Hopwood how many times do you allow something to happen before you learn from it. We conceded 28 points in 13 minutes.

Lee made bad decisions and players like porter, Paolo and miller-miller lack commitment, as a professional player that is inexcusable. All a fan wants is commitment and too many players who came on did not show that

I don't think you can blame Lee for that. What coach wouldn't make changes in that position? And how many time have we praised Porter when he's come on for adding tempo? The problem was the game didn't need tempo, it needed slowing down.

Do you think lee will do it again, I think he will. Surely the coaching set up should tell the players what is expected off them when coming on. Pre planned subs is a poor way to do things - I think EJ has surely taught us that