Expectations

[Heathen]

Passionate leadership on and off the pitch.

I just don't see it anymore.

Lol would bleed Black and Gold for cause, ably supported by his army of lieutenants.

Anyone who was at Lansdown Road in 2004 will know exactly what I am referring to.

10 points down, 15 mins to go, That was the best 15 mins of rugby I have ever seen from wasps.

[HDAWG]

For me getting to the top 4 in the prem and getting to the knock out stages in the champions cup is successful season, because we're up their with the big boys and have potential to win something.

But I share sentiments with a few here I don't enjoy watching Wasps as much as I did when I first came across the club. I started watching around 2015/16 and we played some incredible attacking rugby.

Since post lockdown we've transitioned from a team that attack from anywhere and everywhere to forwards domination + attack on the counter. I genuinely struggle to recall beating Leicester, Toulouse and Saracens because it was done in the most mundane way possible, but I still remember Lee's first few games in charge before COVID. Honestly we look like Exeter from a few years ago. That to me makes watching us somewhat underwhelming...

I personally would like the old team identity back, but since that isn't going to happen the backline needs changing. Because we've got 2 incredible world class props and a very good centre coming in, but our back line needs a lot more that suits the new strategy. We aren't using fullbacks at fullback for example, because we don't appear to be happy with them + we're desperate to include 2 young 10s in the team (WHY DID WE SIGN A THIRD YOUNG TEN OH GOD WHY). But what's funny is our backline didn't need anything in 2019/20, but this new strategy needs new players which fit the identity.

I'll add I'm frustrated with the coaching structure of the starting team not developing the backline better. We really, really miss Gleeson. And I think the backs need someone who is an actual backs coach. Because you need someone to help give us attacking structure and develop the young players progress and I'm not sure we have that.

But what I think the club's doing correctly is the emphasis on academy talent and developing early on. But we need to sort out our identity at the top and what this team wants to be before we can mould these players.

[hopwood]

For me I don't really care about silverware.  It's always fun when we are in with a shout, and when we won in the past it was great.

But.

I care more about seeing Wasps players get try of the week, I care more about seeing our players in pundits teams of the week. I care more about the flashy moments of amazing skill and ridiculous stuff that somehow managed to come off.

I support wasps more for the glorious moments than the overall points.

Whether that is Jack stealing the ball from their ruck 1m off our line, Beale suckering the opposition with an offload out the back of the hand, Cips, finding a gap that didn't exist until he put someone in it. Wade running in his sixth try of the day. Smashley kicking out of hand down the line as if he'd forgotten he wasn't a winger.

The list is huge, but all these things come from a team that play like they love the game and believe in their own abilities. It doesn't feel like we have any of that right now.

Yes we might be doing just fine on paper, but it's hard to really care about a team that doesn't look like they care either...

Great post. I feel your sentiment.
We’ve lost some our DNA as a club.
Yes success, but keep applying the Wasps genes.
We nearly won the Premiership a couple of years ago with that exact spirit and approach.
That confidence to play.

However, that confidence to play has disappeared through coaching and team selection.

[backdoc]

VV

Balzac when talking about the women of Paris: " if general harmony is uncommon, ravishing details abound"

[hopwood]

WHY DID WE SIGN A THIRD YOUNG TEN OH GOD WHY)

If we have and excellent scouts and recruitment process, then we would know the strength of the incoming player’s mindset and belief system (there are a couple of very good psychological assessment systems out there…not the old guff).

If the new 10 coming in has tons of balls and ballast, then great recruitment.

But the potential of any team is restricted to the glass ceiling of the coach’s belief system that they work with on a daily basis.

In other words, if you bring in a really bright, creative player….he can only perform to the heights of the imagination of the coach that’s dictating his strategy and plays each day in training.

If the coach can’t see it…then he won’t allow the player to play it.

It’s been a problem with Eddie Jones over the years.
It’s not a problem with our forwards and John Mitchell and Lee Blackett.

But……..it is a problem with the coaching and personnel of our backs. 
Houston….we have a problem.

[Shugs]

I must have missed the period when Gleason turned us into masters of attack. For me his tenure correlated with some of the worst attacking play I’ve seen from us. Completely get that some prefer the brilliant, unstructured play to the more pragmatic forward based game - that’s just down to individual likes or dislikes. But I don’t think it’s fair to compare to a time when we could field Gopperth, Daly, Wade, Le Roux, Beale etc. Individual opinion again but I’d rather see a team including West, Oghre, T Willis, J Willis, Barbeary, Atkinson, Umaga, Spink - players we’ve produced ourselves - develop over time than the constant stream of very talented mercenary type signings. I don’t question they provided entertainment and the interest that was necessary at the time but it’s not a sustainable model.

[hopwood]

I must have missed the period when Gleason turned us into masters of attack. For me his tenure correlated with some of the worst attacking play I’ve seen from us. Completely get that some prefer the brilliant, unstructured play to the more pragmatic forward based game - that’s just down to individual likes or dislikes. But I don’t think it’s fair to compare to a time when we could field Gopperth, Daly, Wade, Le Roux, Beale etc. Individual opinion again but I’d rather see a team including West, Oghre, T Willis, J Willis, Barbeary, Atkinson, Umaga, Spink - players we’ve produced ourselves - develop over time than the constant stream of very talented mercenary type signings. I don’t question they provided entertainment and the interest that was necessary at the time but it’s not a sustainable model.

I hear you.
But I think there’s a better mix…than what we’ve got now.

The turnover of attacking coaching philosophies is hurting us.

[Westy68]

I remember when we did attack brilliantly but when we played the big teams they would physically beat us up.

I prefer the foundations we currently have at the moment as long as we can see an improvement at 10, 12, 13 and 15.

It will be very interesting to see the so called 3 additional players coming in

[mike909]

I remember when we did attack brilliantly but when we played the big teams they would physically beat us up.

I prefer the foundations we currently have at the moment as long as we can see an improvement at 10, 12, 13 and 15.

This sums up what I was trying to say, I think! I remember losing a semi to the EA/s 57-33 in 2018. We scored 5 tries to their 6 but were beaten up by an over salary cap pack that included 5 first pick Lions of the time plus Isiekwe, Koch and Wray...... Regardless of how - we didn't have the power to win.

[Marlow Nick]

I don’t think it’s fair to compare to a time when we could field Gopperth, Daly, Wade, Le Roux, Beale etc. Individual opinion again but I’d rather see a team including [...] players we’ve produced ourselves - develop over time than the constant stream of very talented mercenary type signings.

I agree that I'd much rather see talent that's grown up with Wasps' culture but to show my age I'll list... Waters, Abbott, Lewsey, Van Gizbergen, Cipriani, Daly, Wade, and our two greatest wingers of all time Shaw and Leota.

[HDAWG]

I must have missed the period when Gleason turned us into masters of attack. For me his tenure correlated with some of the worst attacking play I’ve seen from us.

It's not that we were godly under Gleeson, but with basically the same players our attack was so much better than it is now. You said we had some of our worst attacking play, I completely disagree with that, especially in comparison to this season.

[WonkyWasp]

hang about . . . were there TWO Shaws?  I only remember a lock,  as in Simon Shaw .  Am I showing my stupidity yet again?!

[Rossm]

My expectation for next season is that our backs will be a good deal more cohesive. This season the centres have been a mess - largely due to the continued absence of Ryan Mills and (IMO) our over reliance on an aging Jimmy Gopperth. The hypothetical question I ask is, if the centres had not been affected by long term injury, Mills, Paolo, Fekitoa, Spink and Symonds, to name but 5 (for God's sake we even tried Josh in the centres), would Jimmy have been starting/playing as often as he has? I am definitely not blaming him for our problems - he always gives 100%, but I do think age has caught up with and now passed him. In the Prem, it is the top 2 inches that makes the difference. Jimmy's legs and rugby brain aren't there any more. I've been posting this opinion since at least the previous season if people remember. I am sorry he's left and gone to Tigers. I don't think he will have a happy time there.

[backdoc]

Wonky, when Simon was a bit fatigued he would languish out on the wing and occasionally make an impressive break when the ball happened his way.

[Westy68]

My expectation for next season is that our backs will be a good deal more cohesive. This season the centres have been a mess - largely due to the continued absence of Ryan Mills and (IMO) our over reliance on an aging Jimmy Gopperth. The hypothetical question I ask is, if the centres had not been affected by long term injury, Mills, Paolo, Fekitoa, Spink and Symonds, to name but 5 (for God's sake we even tried Josh in the centres), would Jimmy have been starting/playing as often as he has? I am definitely not blaming him for our problems - he always gives 100%, but I do think age has caught up with and now passed him. In the Prem, it is the top 2 inches that makes the difference. Jimmy's legs and rugby brain aren't there any more. I've been posting this opinion since at least the previous season if people remember. I am sorry he's left and gone to Tigers. I don't think he will have a happy time there.

You are spot on Rossm