Alfie's season of extremes set to roll into England's tour of Australia.

[Westy68]

Alfie gets over the gain line and scores trys, he is only 20 years old and will be an exceptional player when he polishes up his technique.

I really do find it odd that some people feel we should keep playing Charlie, who at this moment in time doesn’t really contribute to how we play, as how will he learn, if he doesn’t play. Then on the other hand we don’t want to play someone who is 20 and makes a difference to how we play, how will Alfie learn.

For me Alfie and Tom are both brilliant players but I think next season Tom will be pushing Brad for a staring position rather than Alfie

[Rossm]

Tom is the more versatile of the two (IMO), hence why he is on the bench as back row cover.

[JonnyD]

T Willis was again class yesterday when he came on, probably better than Alfie.

I like to think we’re managing both of their gametimes very well, looking after them both for the longevity of their careers and for impact on the pitch - I’m hoping they share the gametime but Alfie seems to be given preference at the moment, but still a long way to go.

[wasps]

I think we'd see more of Tom if we were regularly getting over the gain line with other players.


Maybe Koch, Odendaal and a revitalised Odogwu will see us breaking the line more often which might lessen the need for Alfie being the go to man.




Blind side would seem to be the other option for a power back row like him.
But I'd like to see stats on the tackling and work rate we get from him compared to Brad before we see him as a natural successor

[Westy68]

Also as Jack is not running with the ball anywhere near the level he was before the injury, we need Alfie who gets over the gain line and is normally only stopped by 2/3 opposition players, Generating gaps.  we need a 10 who can direct players into the gaps. This is not solely down to the 10 we also need a 12 and mainly 13 running the lines.

I like my 12 to be a good defensive player who has power to get over the gain line and I like my 13 to be quick who runs great lines. This is why I love the Quins centre pair, for me the perfect combination.

Charlie can find a quality late pass but I find he runs into traffic too much. Someone needs to tell him that he is a 10 and getting tackled is the very last thing that should happen to him. Pass or kicking is way before then.

[Shugs]

Back row wise Shields name will always be inked in first. Tom and Alfie will play plenty of games between them at 8. We need this sort of problem all over the squad. It’s not just Willis. Recently Carr, Young, Toomaga-Allan, Mills, Cardall, Wolstenholme, Spink have all not made match day squads. That’s the game.

[wasps]

I like my 12 to be a good defensive player who has power to get over the gain line and I like my 13 to be quick who runs great lines. This is why I love the Quins centre pair, for me the perfect combination.

I agree with this entirely.
I was always told that a 12 should typically be the best tackler / defensive positioning because they will often have to help cover the 10 channel too.
That then means you want your pace and step to come from 13, as well as running support lines.


I think Wilkinson and more recently Farrell as hard hitting 10s has changed this perception a lot.
There's also been a number of other 10s in the modern game who tackle well.


However on the whole, these still feel like edge cases.
The majority of fly halfs are still iffy when a big ball carrier is running at them.
There's also the fact that you don't want your 10 buried in a ruck if you're a team that's likely to make turnovers.






That all being said, a solid defensive pattern is probably far more important than individual tacklers.
We seem to sometimes look like we know exactly what we're doing in defence and other days it's as though it's a completely new concept

[Rossm]

There's also the fact that you don't want your 10 buried in a ruck if you're a team that's likely to make turnovers.

Shaun Edwards always said that.

[Westy68]

There's also the fact that you don't want your 10 buried in a ruck if you're a team that's likely to make turnovers.

Shaun Edwards always said that.

That because he knows what is his talking about, which is why I don’t understand why the current coaching set up hasn’t told Charlie to stop doing it, pass it or kick it, the last thing you do is take it into contact

[Rossm]

There's also the fact that you don't want your 10 buried in a ruck if you're a team that's likely to make turnovers.

Shaun Edwards always said that.

That because he knows what is his talking about, which is why I don’t understand why the current coaching set up hasn’t told Charlie to stop doing it, pass it or kick it, the last thing you do is take it into contact

Of course, Cips was never the greatest tackler

[wasps]

There's also the fact that you don't want your 10 buried in a ruck if you're a team that's likely to make turnovers.

Shaun Edwards always said that.

Indeed.
I'm certainly not suggesting that I'm original.


If you're Saracens with Farrell at 10, and your defensive approach is to force mistakes either by rushing the ball carrier or hard tackles, then having your 10 at the bottom of the ruck makes little difference.


Even if you get a turnover, Farrell isn't pivotal to the next attacking phase.






However, with Jack Willis on the pitch, a turnover is always possible at which point you want players capable of launching a first phase attack quickly.
For us, Charlie and Jacob would likely be a part of that