Sad Reality for Players

[JF]

Rugby is eating itself.

There isn't the money to pay players what they earn. It's basic mathematics. If players don't like it they have two options: find someone who will pay them more or settle for what they can get where they are.

It may well be a short career that can end at any time because of injury but does that always mean that injury ends all future possibilities of earning anything at all? If my company goes through a rough period then I cannot be paid what hasn't been earned, regardless of how good I am at my job.

It's also harming its player base. The size snd strength of players and the damage caused to them means bigger squads are needed, which means that there is less money in the pot to pay more players.

These concerns need to be addressed. You can't pay what you don't have. You can't destroy what you do have.

[hopwood]

I also think the game of rugby, itself, has become so much more complicated to understand.
For established rugby fans, not such a problem.

But for part timers or outsiders, there’s a lot to swallow and try and get your head around.

I personally preferred the game of rugby around the turn of this century.
However as sides become bigger and bigger….and more and more athletic…I feel something has been lost.
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but rugby doesn’t quite hold the same appeal.
And maybe we’re seeing that in the stands too.

[jamestaylor002]

I also think the game of rugby, itself, has become so much more complicated to understand.
For established rugby fans, not such a problem.

But for part timers or outsiders, there’s a lot to swallow and try and get your head around.

I personally preferred the game of rugby around the turn of this century.
However as sides become bigger and bigger….and more and more athletic…I feel something has been lost.
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but rugby doesn’t quite hold the same appeal.
And maybe we’re seeing that in the stands too.

+1

I'd say even for people who have played it can still be a hassle to try and follow what's going on sometimes. I played a lot of rugby growing up and the game was simple to play and follow. The cliché of there being a position for everyone to play was very true - you'd have the bigger boys (like me) play front row, you'd have the smaller but quicker boys play out on the wing. The game wasn't complicated.

After a few years out (thanks to studying/having work part time at weekends), I went to play for my now local club and I almost couldn't quite believe just how much the game has changed, even at grassroots level. Now, there's much more expected as a front row player in terms of tactics, involvement in running plays etc. that it looks nothing like the game I played years ago.

Sides being bigger and more athletic is what has probably caused the problems that I'll mention next... Law changes. By now, surely we are on a season-by-season basis where laws are changing?

[Rossm]

I also think the game of rugby, itself, has become so much more complicated to understand.
For established rugby fans, not such a problem.

But for part timers or outsiders, there’s a lot to swallow and try and get your head around.

I personally preferred the game of rugby around the turn of this century.
However as sides become bigger and bigger….and more and more athletic…I feel something has been lost.
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but rugby doesn’t quite hold the same appeal.
And maybe we’re seeing that in the stands too.

+1

I'd say even for people who have played it can still be a hassle to try and follow what's going on sometimes. I played a lot of rugby growing up and the game was simple to play and follow. The cliché of there being a position for everyone to play was very true - you'd have the bigger boys (like me) play front row, you'd have the smaller but quicker boys play out on the wing. The game wasn't complicated.

After a few years out (thanks to studying/having work part time at weekends), I went to play for my now local club and I almost couldn't quite believe just how much the game has changed, even at grassroots level. Now, there's much more expected as a front row player in terms of tactics, involvement in running plays etc. that it looks nothing like the game I played years ago.

Sides being bigger and more athletic is what has probably caused the problems that I'll mention next... Law changes. By now, surely we are on a season-by-season basis where laws are changing?

I'll sum it up in one word IMO) substitutes. You've got more than half a team on the bench, including a complete fresh front row. All of whom are on the payroll in the Prem. No wonder players are getting bigger when many of the team probably don't go much more than 60 minutes. I must admit, I have no idea how this affects grass roots rugby. I played approx 50 years ago, when there were no subs at all. I played front row - hooker, TH and LH at a pinch. Also played all positions in the back row. Avoided 2nd row entirely.

[westwaleswasp]

I note that with no fanfare and test stars away, Surrey got 16000 for their weekend T20 match.
Many clubs, us included, have struggled to reach those numbers. In Wales rugby following is huge but the clubs struggle. I don't think attracting casuals watching TV is a problem, it is converting them into regulars or match attendees.
I think the key has to be complexity- rugby is easier to follow when someone explains it, as happens on tv. Some of the laws are downright counterintuitive- penalties on scrums, the maul, offside from diving on a kick when it is pinballing around and nobody knows who it came off,  slapping the ball out of the 9s hand forward being a pen but towards you ok etc. Others based on distances like over fifteen, within 10 are hard for someone level with players to see when they pitch up to the ground for live match. The England Italy debacle really showed rugby with its pants down- internationals not knowing laws. Then we have stuff like the caterpillar etc. All in  all we are unfriendly to the casual. Reflinks help, but ironically it is enfranchised supporters who use them.

[Shugs]

One thing that really needs looking at is endless resetting of scrums. When watching live in a stadium if you are a new supporter or trying to get someone else interested there’s nothing worse than something happening that you can’t really see being done time and again.

[Rossm]

One thing that really needs looking at is endless resetting of scrums. When watching live in a stadium if you are a new supporter or trying to get someone else interested there’s nothing worse than something happening that you can’t really see being done time and again.

Though we lost, I really liked Frank Murphy's refereeing of the scrum at Lyon. I don't recollect a solitary scrum penalty. He let the ball be played unless it was completely unplayable and there were very few (I think) resets. He treated the scrum as what it should be - simply a way of restarting the game. I remember we were going for a penalty at some of the scrums but he was unimpressed. I think if we has sussed this out, then we could well have come away with a win.

[westwaleswasp]

Trouble is if you swap him for say, Tempest, and we get 5 scrum pens,min. That is the issue- it is a lottery as to if we get a whistle happy scrum time ref or one who would not blow if one side bought a chainsaw to the scrum.

Personally I do not like to see more than a couple of scrum pens, more in the Murphy camp. Bit different closer to the line, perhaps, but repeated pens mid field is nonsense, the equivalent of a foul throw in soccer being turned into a free kick on the edge of the penalty ark.

[Neils]

All we as paying supporters ask is the same application across all games.
Effectively we have at least four (undoubtedly more) systems - PRL,URC,Top 14 and SH. We should at least normalise the NH.

[Peej]

I note that with no fanfare and test stars away, Surrey got 16000 for their weekend T20 match.

And plenty of people think T20 is killing the Test game, let alone the County Championship.

Supporters have been treated like cash cows, and the schedules have been filled by too much rugby. Without radical change - not more complications and more games like a global calendar or tinkering with the laws - the game will edge closer and closer to irrelevance as people struggle to justify giving up increasing expense and time. Honestly, my father in law has a season ticket but I will most likely never have one because I just can't afford either the money or time. I'm sure there are plenty of other people in my position.   

[mike909]

Agree with the above. Especially that the game has the air of complexity that makes it hard to follow and worse than that - the inconsistency of Law application and indeed failure to apply Laws makes it harder to follow and indeed play.

Whilst Mitre 10 rugby is a little below SR, SR players are turning out for their local sides - and it's the showground for SR selection. I was quite taken over covid by the games shown on satellite from NZ, and how the game was played and officiated. It's been my benchmark for officiating and it was especially good around applying offside, breakdown/ruck Laws and scrum penalties (playing the ball if available)

The games were much easier to follow than Prem games as the game was fast and based upon use of space more than use of running into people. Refs often "coached" the tackle calling tackle, release, roll, ruck such that players were facilitated in making decisions to jackal. And the increased pace of the games meant power wasn't decisive.

Looking at the Euro final on Sat, Barnes basically didn't apply breakdown Laws either consistently or immediately. He reffed as if it was permitted to use hands in rucks if you are on your feet. It's worth a read of Law 15 to show what he was failing to do. Not just Saturday - but too many NH games have basically what I'd call assaults when "clearing out", which really don't fall within the Laws and offside seemed something that the assistant refs were not involved in ffs...

Scrum time is a mess. As an old prop I struggle with the officiating and the time wasting involved. It's boring and fails to contribute. This is an area that needs another think as the scrum as a penalty generator and not an unequal contest for possession means the game can be so easily biased by the officiating.

But rugby needs to firstly actually apply the Laws and consistently. World Rugby has tried, especially around the breakdown - but reading their 2020 piece on the breakdown would suggest Barnes hadn't read it. AND he was on the working group .....

https://www.world.rugby/news/568557

[Shugs]

Mike - completely agree with your post. The problem is, as Wasps fans, we’ve now got six front line props being West, Harris, Martinez, Koch, Ryan and Alo. So, as much as I hate the scrum being used as a penalty farm I’d like it to remain that way for a season or two!!

[Rossm]

FYI: Callum Sirker has re-signed with Cornish Pirates for another season.

[Hymenoptera]

Mike - completely agree with your post. The problem is, as Wasps fans, we’ve now got six front line props being West, Harris, Martinez, Koch, Ryan and Alo. So, as much as I hate the scrum being used as a penalty farm I’d like it to remain that way for a season or two!!

Lets hope we have 30 scrums a game then, that only leaves about 20 mins of backplay to have to endure.

[mike909]

Mike - completely agree with your post. The problem is, as Wasps fans, we’ve now got six front line props being West, Harris, Martinez, Koch, Ryan and Alo. So, as much as I hate the scrum being used as a penalty farm I’d like it to remain that way for a season or two!!

Well there is that....I'd be happy with solid clean ball that keeps their backrow attached and provides space...BUT...if that's not giving enough advantage.....penalty, kick to corner, catch and drive - 5pts.....