Confirmed: SA sides in Europe from next season

[MarleyWasp]

https://www.epcrugby.com/2022/06/02/epcr-confirms-inclusion-of-south-african-clubs-for-2022-23-season-and-beyond/

The Cheetahs also joining in the Challenge Cup next season as the Premiership only having 13 teams would mean that there was 19 sides in the Challenge Cup and no workable structure could be found.

Mixed feelings about this:

1) I'm sad that a three time Rugby World Cup winning nation like South Africa can't sustain a 10-12 professional league of its own.

2) Given the difficulty Wasps had arranging an away trip to Biarritz, having found out our opponents at 10pm on a Saturday and the match being the following Friday, which was over Easter, any side playing in Europe or South Africa in the Last 16 round and then having to cross the equator for a Quarter Final is going to be severely hampered.

3) I'm actually a bit excited. There are minimal changes in the pool of sides we can face in Europe. Lyon with a bit more time to plan, Montpellier and Racing 92 are the only away trips I haven't done that appeal to me now. The chance to play some new teams appeals, as does an away trip to Cape Town in December/January.

4) Personally as a keen watcher of Rugby Europe competitions I'd have preferred some spots to go to the semi finalists from the Rugby Europe Super Cup. This new structure allows for 44 sides, but maybe one day it can be expanded to 48?

[Shugs]

Agree. I really like SH rugby and the most worrying aspect of this is that it seems to be in trouble. NZ will always be OK as it’s akin to a religion there. But Aus and SA teams seem to be struggling. I know it’s not as big as league in Aus but it’s slipping even further.

[Neils]

But the Cheetahs from along the road are already in!

Personally think this is totally ridiculous. No longer a European Cup so what are they going to call it beyond Heineken. Sad day but you can see CVC fingerprints all over this.

[Steve from Cov]

Its not for me. Crazy decision.

[Chunky24]

It's a European leagues competition rather than a European teams competition, the South African teams now play in European leagues so it was inevitable.

[Neils]

It's a European leagues competition rather than a European teams competition, the South African teams now play in European leagues so it was inevitable.

Fully aware of that - nitpicking.

[Chunky24]

It's a European leagues competition rather than a European teams competition, the South African teams now play in European leagues so it was inevitable.

Fully aware of that - nitpicking.

It's not really nit picking when that is the key administrative arrangement, rather than geographical arrangement, that allows it to happen whether people like it or not.

[Neils]

It's a European leagues competition rather than a European teams competition, the South African teams now play in European leagues so it was inevitable.

Fully aware of that - nitpicking.

It's not really nit picking when that is the key administrative arrangement, rather than geographical arrangement, that allows it to happen whether people like it or not.

It was set up as a European Cup and has been sold as such for all of it's existence.  Because the SA teams were bounced out of SH rugby they looked for some competition and the Pro 14, ever after money, bowed to CVC pressure and let a select few teams in. As URC team STH I can assure you it has buggered up the league and we are now seeing the results. The SA entry into the Heineken Cup etc is not something to applaud with all the associated travel,  costs and altitude problems. At least the URC teams go over for two games plus acclimatisation time - not something English teams can afford.

[Chunky24]

It's a European leagues competition rather than a European teams competition, the South African teams now play in European leagues so it was inevitable.

Fully aware of that - nitpicking.

It's not really nit picking when that is the key administrative arrangement, rather than geographical arrangement, that allows it to happen whether people like it or not.

It was set up as a European Cup and has been sold as such for all of it's existence.  Because the SA teams were bounced out of SH rugby they looked for some competition and the Pro 14, ever after money, bowed to CVC pressure and let a select few teams in. As URC team STH I can assure you it has buggered up the league and we are now seeing the results. The SA entry into the Heineken Cup etc is not something to applaud with all the associated travel,  costs and altitude problems. At least the URC teams go over for two games plus acclimatisation time - not something English teams can afford.

I agree there are many issues around it but as I said in my original post once they were admitted to a European league then them playing in the European Cup competition for those leagues was inevitable.

[Shugs]

So are they in the comp or just eligible if they qualify?

[Chunky24]

So are they in the comp or just eligible if they qualify?

In, qualified and invited.

Five South African sides to play in European competition next season - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61672195

[Shugs]

By dint of last seasons standing. I don’t know how I feel about it. Was obviously going to get muddled once participants in the league became SA.

[westwaleswasp]

Not welcome for my money at the best of times, doubly so given the utterly disgraceful Lions tour, where they as a rugby nation exhibited a total lack of respect for the values of the game, this even went down to their most famous ref, and his unreliable testimony at the expense of one of our own. The whole rugby nation is a disgrace.
 I know the same lack of respect  has applied to our egregious national coach from time to time, but there are key differences. SA media went into full attack mode and frankly I don't want their values in their reporting on our European game, our media gives such breaches the opprobium they deserve and whilst Eddie lacks class, he has never descended to the destructive and vindictive levels of attack on the integrity of a ref that they did as a nation with near unanimity. I don't want to read coverage of Wasps vs SA teams like what we saw last year.
If SA are in fiscal trouble, well the humiliation of bankruptcy and its fall out would be good for them, and perhaps the world game as seeing one of the big boys fail might shock them into helping the emerging nations more, and indeed Australia. SA rugby can die in a ditch as far as I am concerned- they kill it on the pitch, they kill it off the pitch.

Given the way the Jaguares played out down under, I think we should be offering the hand of friendship to our South American friends, not the base Boks who contaminate everything they touch with their bunker mentality and national press assault on the integrity of referees.  They are not welcome.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Nice comment www and fully agree.

When I worked in Jo’burg I thought the SA rugby public were a bunch of self-entitled spoilt brats.  That was 20+ years ago and the Lions tour showed little has changed. 

Anyway, I haven’t read the OP link, here’s a good graphic of it is being organised. Pools of 3 teams with a round of 16.

Pools of 3 are too much of a lottery for my liking. 

Oops, here’s the link

https://twitter.com/rugbyinsideline/status/1532274025925320705?s=21&t=HDggBackVAQyUsbT0w5_bg

[Wombles]

It may seem counterintuitive but the presence of the SA teams in a European competition exposes the fallacy of trying to make out our wonderful sport is a global game. South Africa are not capable of producing their own league, the old pro 12 was so weak it brought in the S.A teams in an attempt to improve it, however the result is the URC, which is a bloated, uninteresting competition that is a logistical nightmare for the clubs and fans involved. That in itself shows lack of global appeal.

If our sport was as successful as those in power want it to be, South Africa and their continent would have leagues and completions to be proud of, and matches against clubs from other completions across the globe would be ones to savour.

What we have is the shoehorning of teams into a competition based upon the collective failures of the leagues that they have played and currently play in. I think this is an experiment which will be as successful as the Anglo-Welsh cup.