Leicester v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts

[baldpaul101]

I actually think Wasps played pretty well considering. Tigers did not really look very convincing IMO & if a couple of bad Wasp passes had gone to hand, it would have been much closer.
Saints could edge their semi if they can keep the game loose.

The really frustrating thing is that it was Wasp mistakes that allowed Tigers to win. Dropped balls, poor passes etc etc etc. The back line looked like they'd met for the first time in the warm up.

For me this has to be a coaching issue. I know there's been severe disruption because of injuries but this has been essentially the same back line that was devastating a few seasons ago. Players have confidence issues & the game plan hasn't been adjusted to help them re-gain it. I'm not suggesting any coaches need to go yet, but they need a long look during the off season at how they are going to play nest season.
Atkinson is looking like the future but Robson is the issue for me. Too many bad passes or poor choices leaving the midfield trying to do too much with a defender in their face. Not sure what the issue is, hopefully he can find whats missing over the summer
Porters try shows what Wasps can actually achieve when passes stick.

[Mellie]

The really frustrating thing is that it was Wasp mistakes that allowed Tigers to win. Dropped balls, poor passes etc etc etc. The back line looked like they'd met for the first time in the warm up.

For me this has to be a coaching issue.

This is definitely a skills issue. What does the skills coach actually do? You always need to practice basic skills however elite you are and to be able to execute under pressure. Just look at how good Saints were for Freeman's first try. Wasps have trouble when there's no pressure and fall apart when it's intense.

I know there's been severe disruption because of injuries but this has been essentially the same back line that was devastating a few seasons ago.

Not true. Only Dobbie and Gopps were in that back division. Gopps is a shadow of his former self and maybe the devastating backs of yesteryear weren't so encumbered  by poor distribution from 9.

[baldpaul101]

Not true. Only Dobbie and Gopps were in that back division.

I was thinking of the covid disrupted 2020 season.
In the final the backs were:

Minozzi; Kibirige, de Jongh, Gopperth, Bassett; Umaga, Robson;

& it would have been Fekitoa at 13 if he hadn't got injured in the semi. Apart form JdJ all of those players have been available for large parts of this season.

[westwaleswasp]

Bassett, Robson, Odogwu. They would appear in most match day prem squads.

Bassett would not get in a  single top 4 squad's 11 or 14 shirt in my opinion. He is solid, but never had the footwork of a top winger. You need players like him, but he would not be pushing out higher quality players.

Robson has arguably been the second best 9 at Wasps since Jan, at least according to some here abd elsewhere. Last year he was the best 9 in the country, so it kind of depends on which Dobby you are talking about.

Odogwu has not nailed his position on as wing or centre yet,  and Lee has actively not picked him in recent times. Personally I think he has x factor and is excellent, the  one you name who should walk into other teams, but those are the facts on him- when fit and available he has not made the starting team in some big games, which means that either he has not performed or our selection was wrong. Either way, he needs to get into ours before we start talking  about if he would get into others.

[Shugs]

Personal opinion isn’t it. Bassett has a great rugby mind - rarely makes a bad call. Robson - probably only De Klerk better. Odogwu - his exclusion for Hougaard was basically incorrect selection for me - very baffling. He has pace, power, a good step and a low centre of gravity - he gets in most teams for me and it seems, is good enough for England.

[westwaleswasp]

Yes, subjective for sure, for my money I have never seen Josh use footwork to wrongfoot a defender. You know what he will do if he can't  burn them on the outside, he cuts back in and takes the contact. Reliable, safe, and yes no bad decisions. You know he will pop up looking for work, but that is not going to displace some of the wingers from their teams, who have players who can dance their way through and maybe a fraction more pace.

I presume you mean Robson of last year?Most would agree, me too. This year, not so much. Interesting you mention De Klerk, I actually would not want a de Klerk figure here- great player for the type of rugby I don't want to see. Such a vastly different player I cannot really compare. If you stuck De K into our 2917 vintage, it would have been a disaster. Horses for courses.

Agree on selection of Paulo too.

[Rossm]

Yes indeed. If you stuck Faff in our 2917 vintage, then he would even have been older than Gopps

[westwaleswasp]

Yes indeed. If you stuck Faff in our 2917 vintage, then he would even have been older than Gopps

Lease is only 250 years, but by then CCFC might have built a stadium and SBT might like us....)

[Covkid40]

This whole post sums our back division up. Nobody can agree why it had gone so wrong or what our best starting backs lineup is or why players are so out of form. If you look at most clubs the fans will agree on the first choice players in most positions there will always be differences of opinion on a few players but by and large they know their best backs lineup. All the posts on here suggest different things player selection, form, coaching, injuries, confidence the list goes on and I think that’s part of the problem I genuinely believe Lee doesn’t really know either we’ve chopped and changed looking for that perfect solution and we have come no where near finding it. I think next season we have to pick a side and go with it give them games together and see where we can go.  In an article today Lee said Mills wasn’t playing because they were must win games and we needed a reliable kicker at 12. Well that wasn’t working in the last 4 games but we keep going with it. Instead of relying on a 12 kicking points let’s score some try’s and put teams under the cosh and make them chase the game. 

[DGP Wasp]

This whole post sums our back division up. Nobody can agree why it had gone so wrong or what our best starting backs lineup is or why players are so out of form. If you look at most clubs the fans will agree on the first choice players in most positions there will always be differences of opinion on a few players but by and large they know their best backs lineup. All the posts on here suggest different things player selection, form, coaching, injuries, confidence the list goes on and I think that’s part of the problem I genuinely believe Lee doesn’t really know either we’ve chopped and changed looking for that perfect solution and we have come no where near finding it. I think next season we have to pick a side and go with it give them games together and see where we can go.  In an article today Lee said Mills wasn’t playing because they were must win games and we needed a reliable kicker at 12. Well that wasn’t working in the last 4 games but we keep going with it. Instead of relying on a 12 kicking points let’s score some try’s and put teams under the cosh and make them chase the game.

Looking at the second half of the season when we had minimal injury disruption to contend with, there is little consensus on here about who goes where in the backs.  And given the amount of chopping and changing, I'm not sure the coaches are any more in agreement than the supporters.

9: Robson/Porter
10: Atkinson/Umaga
11: Bassett (probably the closest to broad agreement)
12: Gopps/Mills
13: Fekitoa/Spink/Odogwu
14: Odogwu/Hougaard/Kibirige
15: Crossdale/Watson/Umaga/Miller/Minozzi

Most of the above have had a chance to nail down the shirt, but only a handful have made themselves a firm first choice, and those that have still give cause for debate.  Compare that with 1-8, or indeed the backs of 2017 which pretty much picked themselves.  A settled side would be a good start.  But to get there we need those that are selected to perform to expectations, and that too often hasn't happened.  3 months now to put that right.

[InBetweenWasp]

The really frustrating thing is that it was Wasp mistakes that allowed Tigers to win. Dropped balls, poor passes etc etc etc.

Think this sums up a good number of our games.  This might be a bit of rose-tinted glasses, but I don’t think there’s been many games this season where we’ve been completely dominated.  But there’s a good number where we’ve lost narrowly that we could and should have won if we’d have made a few last passes stick.