England team vs Australia

[wasps]

Arundell and JVP are exciting players, that could cause a whole host of problems as legs tire and the game breaks up in the last 20 minutes.

I fear that tiring legs aren't a thing for tier 1 Nations.


With 7 replacements to bring on, and state of the art tracking and real time player statistics, it's easy for a coach to see tiring legs and replace the player before it starts to adversly affect their performance.


A tier 1 nation has enough players of international quality to replace their entire team and not really weaken themselves.

[mike909]

I've seen comment elsewhere that picks like Arundel are "developing" players. This is a player with TWO Prem starts and 5 bench appearances.....This is less time than George Martin had before coming off the bench vs Ireland in 2021.

Like the Saints coach - I do think players benefit from experience. Even stars like Maro had loads of Prem experience and had started a Euro Semi before England called. Any injury and he could be FB after 5mins...It might be that I am over cautious - but it seems a risk both for the player and England.

As for the selection - it is as others say the same old - but given those in the squad - it's the starting 15 that I'd expect - but it's still mainly the lacklustre 6Ns team plus Farrell and Billy.

It's easily winnable - part of me thinks that losing might concentrate minds on reality rather than an alleged fantasy "journey" we're told England are on.

So England by 30 then....

[baldpaul101]

Same old same old

but out of the starting 15:

Freddie Steward
Joe Marchant
Joe Cokanasiga
Marcus Smith

are hardly seasoned Internationals are they?

& that bench without Mako & LCD is very green!!

I don't agree with some of his choices but I can't see how he can be criticised for picking the "Same old same old" and at the same time for picking new uncapped players?

[Peej]

I've seen comment elsewhere that picks like Arundel are "developing" players. This is a player with TWO Prem starts and 5 bench appearances.....This is less time than George Martin had before coming off the bench vs Ireland in 2021.

Like the Saints coach - I do think players benefit from experience. Even stars like Maro had loads of Prem experience and had started a Euro Semi before England called. Any injury and he could be FB after 5mins...It might be that I am over cautious - but it seems a risk both for the player and England.

As for the selection - it is as others say the same old - but given those in the squad - it's the starting 15 that I'd expect - but it's still mainly the lacklustre 6Ns team plus Farrell and Billy.

It's easily winnable - part of me thinks that losing might concentrate minds on reality rather than an alleged fantasy "journey" we're told England are on.

So England by 30 then....

Guess the risk is he either takes to it like a natural or has a bit of a Mathew Tait experience.

I think it's too soon, to be honest. In the Prem Cup final he started against Worcester and made a whole host of mistakes. Undoubtedly talented, but no need to throw him in so soon.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I've seen comment elsewhere that picks like Arundel are "developing" players. This is a player with TWO Prem starts and 5 bench appearances.....This is less time than George Martin had before coming off the bench vs Ireland in 2021.

Like the Saints coach - I do think players benefit from experience. Even stars like Maro had loads of Prem experience and had started a Euro Semi before England called. Any injury and he could be FB after 5mins...It might be that I am over cautious - but it seems a risk both for the player and England.

As for the selection - it is as others say the same old - but given those in the squad - it's the starting 15 that I'd expect - but it's still mainly the lacklustre 6Ns team plus Farrell and Billy.

It's easily winnable - part of me thinks that losing might concentrate minds on reality rather than an alleged fantasy "journey" we're told England are on.

So England by 30 then....

Guess the risk is he either takes to it like a natural or has a bit of a Mathew Tait experience.

I think it's too soon, to be honest. In the Prem Cup final he started against Worcester and made a whole host of mistakes. Undoubtedly talented, but no need to throw him in so soon.

Stepping up a level means those mistakes have a high probability of being severely punished.  He’ll also have a lot less time before defences hit him.

If this was the start of the WC cycle I’d see it as a good move, but do we really see him as WC material? I suppose we’ll find out in the next few weeks. 

[Rossm]

Tere are times when Jones makes me think of a drowning man grabbing at straws.

[mike909]

I agree with the above re WC cycles - he looks like a decent pick for 2027 - but with two Prem starts, ever, it's hard to see what he offers for RWC 23 above the FB from Saints in the BaaBaas game. Freeman has started 23 Prem games and a Euro game and scored 13 tries this season in the Prem. To me - that's a flier....

I don't think the "ducks to water" analogy is demonstrated in reality - or so rarely in recent times as to be unlikely a factor. I think George North was the nearest - and he's had his first class starts restricted by injury but was still more experienced than Arundel and only covering wing...And - the game really has changed in 12 years.

[Rossm]

How is the game being broadcast, please?

[Shugs]

Jones selection follows a distinct pattern. He tends to pick a core of predictable hardened internationals and couples them with those who have hardly played. He largely ignores the players who are tearing it up domestically. I’m not sure why. He does pick if someone has a “unique” ability. He picked Odogwu from nowhere due to his ability to bust the line. Arundell is picked as he can score from nowhere. For me that doesn’t make an international. Arundell, for me, has absolutely miles to go before playing at international level.

[hookender]

How is the game being broadcast, please?

Sky sports just before 11:00

[hopwood]

Well, I’m looking forward to the game.
It sounds like Eddie Jones is allowing Martin Gleeson some room to impose an improved style of attack.
I actually like Martin when he was at Wasps….and I think the players did too.

Marcus Smith has only just started his international career…and I get excited watching him, in the way I used to with Cips.

The BaBa game was concerning, but this team looks much better balanced.
I’m going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt (as none of us have watched how the squad have trained recently). 

Let’s see where we all are by the 70th minute.
And then at the final whistle.
I don’t like Eddie Jones….but I do like quite a lot of the players in that squad.

Australia are improving their setup at long last, but we don’t really know what type of team they are right now.
Lots of unknowns, so plenty to feast the eyes on.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

How is the game being broadcast, please?

Sky sports just before 11:00

Under normal circumstances I’d get A day or maybe month sub on Now TV and then watch some of the cricket as well.

Despite Hopwood’s optimism ☝️I can’t bring myself to get enthusiastic. That said, the wife’s out tomorrow morning so I’ll probably crack and then spend the rest of the day kicking myself. 

[hopwood]

How is the game being broadcast, please?

Sky sports just before 11:00

Under normal circumstances I’d get A day or maybe month sub on Now TV and then watch some of the cricket as well.

Despite Hopwood’s optimism ☝️I can’t bring myself to get enthusiastic. That said, the wife’s out tomorrow morning so I’ll probably crack and then spend the rest of the day kicking myself.

Hey Mr Dorset
Here’s the other rugby on tomorrow, just so you get all bang for your buck.
And obviously cricket too. Could be good England batting tomorrow.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sport/rugby-union/summer-internationals-rugby-2022-tv/

Saturday 2nd July 2022

Japan v France (7am) Premier Sports 1

New Zealand v Ireland (8:05am) Sky Sports Action / Main Event

Australia v England (10:55am) Sky Sports Action / Main Event

South Africa v Wales (4:05pm) Sky Sports Action / Main Event

Argentina v Scotland (8:10pm) Sky Sports Action / Main Event

[hopwood]

I think sometimes, we have to check our own bias.
There’s been plenty on here (including me) relentlessly criticising Jones for not selecting fast and exciting players.
For playing too conservatively.
Well now that he is starting to pick those types of player, people seem to be upset before they’ve even seen them play.
If we really do have something special (eg Arundell) surely a summer tour game is the perfect time to find out if he can make the grade in very quick time?
If Jones took him to Australia and then didn’t play him…he would be criticised by just as many people.
I’m withholding judgement. Some people on here would prefer to be proved right rather than potentially watch a new chapter evolve.
Knowing the way Jones obsessively thinks…he might well have had a quick tête-à-tête with Brendan McCullum and Ben Stokes to understand how freedom of expression and creativity has allowed English cricket to step up another level in a matter of weeks.
Eddie Jones can’t ignore what’s happening in cricket.
Better lessons there than from Southgate!! So let’s hope Eddie is getting the message.

From The Times

Try wizardry in training earns Henry Arundell a spot on the England bench

Henry Arundell secured his place on England’s bench for the opening Test against Australia by scoring a 90-metre wonder-try in training.

The 19-year-old London Irish full back ran strongly for a solo try from almost his own goalline against Toulon in April during the European Challenge Cup knockout match, an effort that became a viral sensation.

And it was a similar effort in front of Eddie Jones that convinced the head coach to put his “apprentice” into the match-day 23 for Saturday’s first Test.

This is Arundell’s first season as a professional and he has played only 14 senior matches for Irish, scoring seven tries. Jones was given a first-hand taste this week of just why the teenager was named the Gallagher Premiership discovery of the season.

“He’s just scored a try [in training on Wednesday] not many other players in the world would have scored,” Jones said. “It was like a try Bryan Habana used to score — one of those.

“He’s got exceptional pace and if he gets an opportunity against Australia we’re sure he’ll be able to show that pace.”

Jonny Hill, the second-row forward who starts on Saturday, was amazed by the Arundell try. “I was stood in the other 22,” he said.

“It was crazy. I asked him this morning what [speed] he thought he [ran], percentage-wise, and he said 85-90.

“He rounded a couple of lads. I think it was some back-three lads. It was very impressive — he’s a proper rock star, isn’t he? I’m sure he’s going to have a big future.

“The Aussies will have seen that [Toulon] try he scored. Everyone did.”

[mike909]

Fair enough - but.....my criticism of Jones' selections, in the 6Ns was that without the usual fliers - he didn't even look to pick people like Radwan etc - and it showed. England were blunt.

That he's picked someone who's a star in training is fine in itself, but it doesn't demonstrate a sudden revelation by Jones. He's a player who's played very few games and none with any real pressure. I'm sure Wade might have been an example of such a player - but experienced too....and a record try scorer who wasn't considered by Jones.

But Arundel whilst having all the tools - hasn't played much for LI - he's only started two Prem games. The games with any pressure and could be FB in the first minute....He might do brilliantly - but his selection not a get out clause - well not for me - from Jones' continuing range of bizarre selections. Something he didn't impose on Smith or Steward - both had plenty of Prem time and tests vs Canada and USA before anything like a serious test.

It would be great if he went well - but Saints coach - who's forgotten masses more than I will ever know about rugby was specific about England picking players too soon and causing harm. I'd really prefer not to be proven right on such a matter.