Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.  (Read 3130 times)

Shugs

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2022, 04:24:12 PM »
Two of them aren’t on tour but I’d be picking a back three of May if he’s fit, Radwan and Malins. But for any back three to flourish it needs to go through the hands at 12.

Wombles

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2022, 06:58:49 PM »
Heres a genuine question. Has Jones ever realised a players true ability? Or has he simply caused every player to stagnate and regress?

I honestly cannot think of one player who has become a better player when entering into national squad since Jones has been in charge, and even with his huge other faults that is probably one of the most damming thought of all!

Heathen

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2022, 08:58:17 PM »
Heres a genuine question. Has Jones ever realised a players true ability? Or has he simply caused every player to stagnate and regress?

I honestly cannot think of one player who has become a better player when entering into national squad since Jones has been in charge, and even with his huge other faults that is probably one of the most damming thought of all!

I can think of a few who became lesser players under Jones. (and for some it took several seasons to get back to their previous form.)

JF

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2022, 10:32:22 PM »
I'm not a highly-paid coach so I don't understand what Cokanasinga brings to the team.

Rossm

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2022, 10:58:12 PM »
Jones is a bit of a size queen.
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Andywasp50

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2022, 11:03:49 PM »
I get the impression that Jones has a personal obsession to win the World Cup as a Head coach - it doesn’t matter how or who with. It’s just fortunate for him that the blazers at the RFU are dozy enough to hand him the England team and a healthy salary to try and achieve it.

I don’t think Jones gives a stuff about English rugby, the Six nations, national pride etc, the only thing that he wants is to call himself a World Cup winner. Problem is he’s reached a stage of utter delusion by virtue of having everyone who could challenge him being too frightened to do so or leaving. His shape shifting side has nothing to build around because he doesn’t have a template.

The only hope England have of winning the next World Cup would be to sack Jones with a year to the tournament, then parachute in someone like Borthwick or Gatland to revitalise and refresh the whole set up and get some momentum going.

westwaleswasp

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2022, 12:17:39 AM »
Haskell speaks highly of Jones.
Which basically tells you all you need to know.

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2022, 05:46:31 AM »
I'm not a highly-paid coach so I don't understand what Cokanasinga brings to the team.
Ever since Jonah Lomu was ripping England defences apart, or maybe it was before then, some coaches and the media have wanted England to have a huge winger to do the same. Banahan was another attempt.

wasps

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2022, 07:17:07 AM »
I'm not a highly-paid coach so I don't understand what Cokanasinga brings to the team.
Ever since Jonah Lomu was ripping England defences apart, or maybe it was before then, some coaches and the media have wanted England to have a huge winger to do the same. Banahan was another attempt.


It worked with Cohen, therefore it must always work

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2022, 09:17:33 AM »
I'm not a highly-paid coach so I don't understand what Cokanasinga brings to the team.
Ever since Jonah Lomu was ripping England defences apart, or maybe it was before then, some coaches and the media have wanted England to have a huge winger to do the same. Banahan was another attempt.


It worked with Cohen, therefore it must always work
I’d forgotten about Ben Cohen. A good rugby brain on him IIRC, but it was a time when I was travelling a lot and was more of a casual rugby observer. 

westwaleswasp

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2022, 09:25:10 AM »
The larger the number on the back, the more coaches feel they can mess with the basics.
Interesting reference to Cohen. He turned with the speed of a truck, and would be exposed today. He was part of the attempt to produce backs who are auxiliary 8s, he worked when he was in a team of creative players with vision, when Robinsons and Catts were on the pitch, and when no-one else was doing it. Banahan mentioned above would would have worked at the time and only failed because it was a different era.

Now every team is full of these monsters, and the Robinsons and Catts are nowhere to be found, because the Malins, the Wades etc. get overlooked in favour of more prosaic options. Eddie believes in one worker, one flyer on the wings. Worker is code for 'not a winger'. Only the threat of job loss will see him deviate from that. He still believes England's strengths are what saw his 2003 chances arm wrestled away in a final, rather than the glorious Woodward team 12 months previous that had flair and precision allied to power.

Well over half a decade of ignoring the basics- two wingers, both of whom must be fast and preferably with decent footwork.  Add in perennial resets of coaches, an obsession with the WC rather than building a team, and it is no surprise our win PC vs tier 1 nations over the last 4 years has been as it has.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2022, 09:28:28 AM by westwaleswasp »

mike909

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2022, 09:27:03 AM »
Two of them aren’t on tour but I’d be picking a back three of May if he’s fit, Radwan and Malins. But for any back three to flourish it needs to go through the hands at 12.
Yep

It was happening with Ford/OF/JJ when Jones took over Bomber's squad. Watson and May got ball and we seemed to know what we were doing. I think we miss Ford and I'm wondering if OF has run his race. Which leaves us needing to play with the cards we have and in a game plan players understand.....Hence the current problems.

hopwood

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2022, 01:07:06 PM »
Just had to share this article from The Times yesterday.
It's absolutely mad....and shines a light on the fact that Eddie Jones is just grabbing out at any mad solution.
I mean....this guy he employed is nothing but a snake oil salesman. A quack.
With no formal training in any particular field.
And yet Eddie hired him instantly and then created a completely toxic in-camp culture because of him.

Eddie Jones has gone soft, says ‘coach whisperer’ Bradley Charles Stubbs

One of the first advisers Eddie Jones hired when he was recruited by the RFU, an Australian known as “the coach whisperer”, believes that he has the answer to why England are struggling. “Eddie has gone soft,” Bradley Charles Stubbs said.

Jones has always surrounded himself with consultants from outside rugby; from Frank Dick, the former director of coaching for UK Athletics to David Pembroke, who offers media advice from Canberra.

Stubbs, a former competitive surfer, focuses on reading energy and training the subconscious mind. He calls it the “science of belief” and initially contacted the RFU after the 2015 World Cup, having won an NRL Premiership ring with South Sydney Rabbitohs and worked with Michael Cheika when he was the Australia coach.

Jones hired him before they had even met. Stubbs worked with the England coach through the grand-slam campaign in 2016 and the tour to Australia that summer, studying up to 140 pages of media coverage a day to pick out “the one percenters” that could positively affect England’s energy or damage that of the opposition.

England players were barred from using the words “hope” or “hopefully”. When Jones suggested before England played Ireland in 2016 that Johnny Sexton’s parents should be concerned for his health given his concussion record, that came from Stubbs; a deliberate attempt to plant doubt in the Ireland fly half’s subconscious mind.

When England came to Australia in 2016 with Jones picking fights and stating they were going to win 3-0 by playing “Bodyline” rugby, that too came from Stubbs. “I call it mental warfare,” he said. Stubbs is not formally trained but believes strongly there is a direct connection between language, the energy it generates and elite performance.

Although no longer engaged by the RFU, Stubbs has been monitoring Jones and England — and he was not in the least bit surprised by their final-quarter collapse in Saturday’s 30-28 first Test defeat by the Wallabies.


“Eddie’s intensity creates energy,” Stubbs said. “That was why the RFU hired him. When I worked with him, we won nine games out of nine — the grand slam and we whitewashed the Wallabies. He then equalled the world record of consecutive Test wins.

“People said, ‘Eddie you have got to change. You are too intense’. I read an interview with the captain [Courtney Lawes] and he said Eddie had completely changed. Well, so have the results.

“Everything is based on energy. They change the energy of what they do and the results follow. I love the crazy, intense Eddie because that is when he f***ing wins. What I am saying is, ‘Eddie, go back to what you were’.

“Back in 2016 it was attack, attack, attack. When we had the ball we attacked, when we didn’t have the ball we attacked and anything in the media was called mental warfare.

“I gave Eddie stuff and he just attacked. Because when you put it in the media, if the opposition or any of their staff talk about what Eddie said for one minute, it takes that one minute away from their preparation for the next game.

“When he gets a reaction it actually lifts his intensity and it creates energy that transfers on to the team. It says to his players, ‘We are going to war. I am in front of you. Let’s go’. And Eddie is the master of it. I actually thought he would be on fire. I am surprised. He has mellowed out.”

Jones began to change his leadership style and the team environment a year ago after discussions with Lawes, who has since replaced Owen Farrell as captain, and Ellis Genge.

The circumstances are also different now to 2016, with England arriving on tour after a poor Six Nations rather than as grand-slam champions. Jones fired a pop shot at the Wallabies, questioning whether Quade Cooper and Nic White would complement each other in the half backs, but otherwise said that trying to engage Dave Rennie, the Australia coach, was like stepping into a ring and sparring by himself.


“Eddie is smarter than that,” Stubbs said. “Find something to get under his skin. I’d rather see Eddie coming out with a baseball bat and doing what he usually does, because that’s when he wins.”

Stubbs now works as a mindset coach with NSW Health, having claimed that he talked Covid patients on 95 per cent oxygen out of an induced coma and back to full health.

When he worked with Michael Maguire, head coach of the Rabbitohs in 2014, they entered into a pact that each of them would cut off their left little finger if the team, with Sam Burgess as its captain, failed to win the NRL title. “I needed his commitment,” Stubbs said.

His connection with the RFU began with an email to Ian Ritchie, who was chief executive in 2015. “To me everything is about winning,” Stubbs said. “My job is to look at a coach and help them with the 1 per cents that they don’t see. I’m the guy that sits above and looks at all the one percents of what energy is in the team.

“Everything is energy. When you walk into a crowded room and someone immediately stands out from everyone else, that is because of their energy.”

Stubbs said that he knew that England would fail to win the 2019 World Cup as soon as he learnt that Ricky Stuart, head coach of the Canberra Raiders, had spent time with the squad during the week of the quarter-final.

Days earlier, the Raiders had lost the NRL grand final and Stubbs said Stuart’s negative energy would have impacted on England, although it did not prevent them from defeating Australia and New Zealand.

“There was a critical change in energy,” Stubbs said. “When you are winning you have to be very careful who comes into your bubble. When a human goes through something emotional, like losing a grand final or getting sacked, that energy is there for a long time and it transfers. England should be going to this next World Cup as defending champions.

“I still believe Eddie can win the next World Cup but there are some things he’s got to change. They need a dramatic change in energy. English rugby needs to back Eddie 200 per cent and let him be the guy with the baseball bat. By doing that, England can win the next World Cup.”


It really doesn't shine a good light on Eddie.
He hasn't a clue how to run a modern day squad, as the game has evolved.
He's stuck in the dark ages, desperately searching for answers.
Hiring (and then firing) anybody and everybody...which just gives out an 'energy' of sheer craziness.

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2022, 02:00:12 PM »
Jeez, he'll have them wearing crystals next.
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Shugs

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Re: Pathetic Excuse from Jones.
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2022, 02:26:52 PM »
With the prices of energy these days if this guy can create it he’ll be made for life.