Wasps fans claim they're 'left in dark' and ask club for answers

[Shugs]

CoDY,

If one is being arranged it’s not a big deal. It’s a way for companies to restructure debt if most creditors agree. It’s designed to stop one or 2 creditors forcing an otherwise sound business in to bankruptcy and asset stripping.

https://www.gov.uk/company-voluntary-arrangements

Thanks for that, BiND - interesting and informative stuff.

However, *if* the CVA rumour is true, I can't agree that it's "not a big deal." It wouldn't necessarily mean that the end was nigh, of course, no matter how loudly some may proclaim otherwise... but it'd still be a big deal insofar as I'm concerned.

This is especially true given that "sound" appears to be the last word one can use (non-sarcastically!) to describe Wasps' business model.

I just wish the Club would get on and say *something* - we're a month away from the start of the season, less time still from the preseason friendlies, and the silence is deafening.

I think I conflated CVA and what used to be called pre-packs. If it is a CVA its not good because although the business is probably sound it puts the onus on paying back creditors rather than investing in the underlying business, so not a good step.

I’m sorry BiND, how can the business be considered sound? Annual losses, unable to repay loans, unable to recruit players, looks like a number of season ticket holders not renewing, unable to maintain the pitch.

Sam, you need to detach yourself from the narrative you hope for and look at reality. Yes, completely agree, it’s a challenge refinancing the bond. But unable to recruit players - we’ve signed one of the worlds best TH props. ST holders not renewing - do you have the figures then? Can’t maintain the pitch - CCFC’s owners are playing games as is their want. Most of all you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that if Wasps go under (unlikely) you’ll be travelling to Sixfields/St Andrews/wherever again.

[Come on Dai Young]

At the risk of throwing myself onto a live grenade, I was going to post the exact same comment as Sam (and then thought better of it, as I didn't want to stir the pot).

I still think the point stands, though.

The Koch signing was announced nine months ago - while I obviously don't know the ins and outs of Wasps' financial situation, a lot seems to have changed since then.

Refinancing the bond isn't something a "sound" business would have to do in the first place, unless I'm very much mistaken!

When all is said and done, everyone outside of the Club's corporate structure - Wasps fans, CCFC fans, and everybody in between - is relying upon a mixture of speculation, hearsay, and wishful thinking.

Until something definitive is said and/or happens, our take on "reality" is no more factual than theirs.

[Shugs]

CODY I’d hate to think you couldn’t post what you really think. Whether it stirs the pot or not is irrelevant - that’s what forums are for.

[Come on Dai Young]

Thanks, Shugs. I appreciate that.

I just didn't want to find myself accused of being a Sky Blues Talk plant, or banned for perceived criticism of Wasps, you know?

I'm very much a newcomer to the forum, and times are tough - it's understandable that the regulars have their guard up (and speaking personally, this blasted heat isn't facilitating calm, reasoned debate!).

[Bloke in North Dorset]

CoDY,

If one is being arranged it’s not a big deal. It’s a way for companies to restructure debt if most creditors agree. It’s designed to stop one or 2 creditors forcing an otherwise sound business in to bankruptcy and asset stripping.

https://www.gov.uk/company-voluntary-arrangements

Thanks for that, BiND - interesting and informative stuff.

However, *if* the CVA rumour is true, I can't agree that it's "not a big deal." It wouldn't necessarily mean that the end was nigh, of course, no matter how loudly some may proclaim otherwise... but it'd still be a big deal insofar as I'm concerned.

This is especially true given that "sound" appears to be the last word one can use (non-sarcastically!) to describe Wasps' business model.

I just wish the Club would get on and say *something* - we're a month away from the start of the season, less time still from the preseason friendlies, and the silence is deafening.

I think I conflated CVA and what used to be called pre-packs. If it is a CVA its not good because although the business is probably sound it puts the onus on paying back creditors rather than investing in the underlying business, so not a good step.

I’m sorry BiND, how can the business be considered sound? Annual losses, unable to repay loans, unable to recruit players, looks like a number of season ticket holders not renewing, unable to maintain the pitch.

If the underlying business is sound, maybe with some business changes such as redundancies, management changes, sale of some assets etc,  the CVA gives the company time to make those changes.

The creditors have a choice, accept reduced interest payments or maybe extended time periods to repay debts or they can bankrupt the company. It used to be the case that all creditors had to agree to the restructuring of the debt, now its 75%.

Just to be clear, I'm talking about a hypothetical company here, I have no insight in to what's going on at Wasps. As I've said before, if I had to guess I'd say they are struggling to agree the final terms of a new loan or bond because of the uncertainty over interest rates.

[wasps]

Sam's points are completely valid.


The bond is a big concern
However, annual losses, while a big problem, are the norm for most sports clubs unfortunately.
Season ticket holders not renewing is always a thing this time of year. Some people say they won't, then they either do or don't, it's the same every year.




Having rumours and news reports every week about your club is never good, but if the bond is refinanced and if we win a couple of early games everything will start to look a lot better

[WonkyWasp]

CoDY ... you're doing all right.

[Heathen]

Given the perceived uncertainly regarding the finances, it will possibly deter supporters from buying STs or advance tickets, until there is a known resolution of the outcome.

[baldpaul101]

At the moment there's a lot of speculation & theory floating around. However there are some facts in the back ground that don't sound great, the bond issue being the biggest one.
However till something either good or bad happens or something is officially announced, theres not a lot we as supporters can do. Unless someone has a few million burning a hole in their pocket!!
I would rather the club kept quiet if they have nothing to tell us.
Once the season starts we can get behind our team, but until then, as frustrating a sit is, we have to sit tight.

[Come on Dai Young]

At the moment there's a lot of speculation & theory floating around. However there are some facts in the back ground that don't sound great, the bond issue being the biggest one.
However till something either good or bad happens or something is officially announced, theres not a lot we as supporters can do. Unless someone has a few million burning a hole in their pocket!!
I would rather the club kept quiet if they have nothing to tell us.
Once the season starts we can get behind our team, but until then, as frustrating a sit is, we have to sit tight.

The bolded part is the only aspect of your post with which I disagree.

Remaining quiet is a perfectly viable approach for a rugby club to take in many situations - the outcome of a disciplinary process, for instance, or the announcement of a potential new signing.

Keeping shtum when the continued existence of the club is in question, and more rumours are being added to the pile with each passing day, isn't sustainable.

[baldpaul101]

but CoDY, if the club have nothing to tell us, either good or bad, any communications they send, will just be dismissed as pointless or proof of impending doom/salvation.

What would you have them say?

[Neils]

At the moment there's a lot of speculation & theory floating around. However there are some facts in the back ground that don't sound great, the bond issue being the biggest one.
However till something either good or bad happens or something is officially announced, theres not a lot we as supporters can do. Unless someone has a few million burning a hole in their pocket!!
I would rather the club kept quiet if they have nothing to tell us.
Once the season starts we can get behind our team, but until then, as frustrating a sit is, we have to sit tight.

The bolded part is the only aspect of your post with which I disagree.

Remaining quiet is a perfectly viable approach for a rugby club to take in many situations - the outcome of a disciplinary process, for instance, or the announcement of a potential new signing.

Keeping shtum when the continued existence of the club is in question, and more rumours are being added to the pile with each passing day, isn't sustainable.

It may well be that they have been told to be quiet by their legal advisors.  A position which is not unusual.

[Come on Dai Young]

but CoDY, if the club have nothing to tell us, either good or bad, any communications they send, will just be dismissed as pointless or proof of impending doom/salvation.

What would you have them say?

Something. Anything!

Yes, those with an axe to grind will interpret any statement in light of their agendas, but that's going to happen regardless. Keeping fans in the dark while rumours continue to swirl, all in the name of not providing doom-mongers with further ammunition, is ridiculous.

[Come on Dai Young]

It may well be that they have been told to be quiet by their legal advisors.  A position which is not unusual.

Very true.

However, the Club wouldn't need its lawyers' permission to, say, deny Fissler's report regarding the freeze on recruitment, be it via a formal press release or a quiet word in Bobby Bridge's ear.

Obviously the bond-related stuff is much thornier, and no statements will be made without going through formal channels first, but that doesn't apply to every allegation out there right now.

The upshot of the Club's silence is that everything looks dire, so I'd be happy (well, happier!) with some sort of statement acknowledging the situation and promising further information in due course. It wouldn't stem the tide of rumours and hearsay, of course, but it'd be better than staying quiet and giving the impression that heads are buried in the sandy pitch at the CBS.

[Covguy]

Pete Nutall view -

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-rugby-news-24729548

I don’t often post but I’m so p*seed off. I liked Pete as announcer and wish he hadn’t been treated so badly and let down but he is a disgruntled ex employee. Also have to say I think Bobby bridge is good journalist but his recent wasps coverage is just stories about fan posts on Twitter. I’ve seen no real analysis or attempt to discover the bond issue etc.

Some fans are beyond parody one vocal lady commented on a post agreeing she didn’t like all the negative fan comments and the. Commented on Pete’s saying she was glad hadn’t renewed season ticket and doing the same negative comments she slagged off in other post! Then there are guys from wasps report who slag everything off on back of them being hard done to but in actual fact are some of the most negative posts I’ve seen.

On the pitch issue I really don’t see what wasps could have done better communication wise. I genuinely think they want to build the cuff relationship so wanted to remain silent but in end had to comment due to negative ccfc briefings. Who is to blame for state of pitch, who is right and wrong I don’t know but I get why wasps would not want public slanging match.

The finances are a concern of course but there are financial rules and only so much the club can say. I really don’t know what people expect from the club here “we are in financial difficulty we’re doing our best” hardly a statement any company releases.

To the fan accounts who say won’t renew season tickets, won’t buy shirts, will only go to away games - good strategy financially starve the club more. Don’t get the logic. Rant over.

T