Gloucester v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts

[Shugs]

The mythical Genge. Not that good a player for me.

[westwaleswasp]

He would walk into our team. Yes at full strength.
And it is not even debatable. So maybe he is not as good as the reputation, but I can't think of anyone I would rather have on my side rather than theirs.


For the game today I expected defeat even with a 21 point lead. Games often go that way at the start of the year.  They often go that way with Glaws, and often with us too.

We knew they would come back, it was just a question of when and how much.

We spooned chance after chance early doors and of course it was costly.
There were positives, of course, and in the backs too.
It was noticeable that Glaws were rubbish when trying to be a pound shop Tigers, and much better when not.

[hopwood]

The mythical Genge. Not that good a player for me.

So in your view Tom Willis is class, but Genge is not very good.
Jeez...get a bit of perspective.

Both good players.
And Genge deserves the praise for what he's achieved so far. I'd be very happy him playing at Wasps.

[Shugs]

Well Willis is certainly class. Genge is going through a phase where everything good he does is amplified tenfold due to his profile. Take his tries at the weekend. Described as absolutely fantastic. Good tries? Sure. But most of us could have run through some of that tackling. I’d take a 100% fit Tom West every day of the week.

[westwaleswasp]

The only thing that makes me think that West might be better is that Eddie picks Genge

Honestly, the only reason I would go West over Genge is discipline- Genge is a tool of the highest order. However, in terms of around the park Genge is destructive, and West isn't that type of player. Intangibles might side with West, but Genge is a man you want alongside, as long as he is not being a muppet.

[Shugs]

Good point re Jones! When fit West is a better scrummager. I suppose my opinion is skewed as that’s what I want from my props. He’s not really destructive around the park any more than a lot of other props. Not saying Genge isn’t a decent player - he is - but he’s about par for me and nothing more.

[Rossm]

Lee and the coaching team have a lot of work to do before Bristol camp up at the CBS, as Genge and his mates will be relishing it.

Bloody Genge shouldn't even be on the pitch next week. Does he think rules don't apply to him because he's special? What's the point of having obligatory rest periods when they are ignored?

I would like to add, that not only have Briz bent the rules by allowing Genge to play but that, unlike most other clubs, they still have 2 marquee players who are earning nearly 2 million between them. Are Briz becoming the new cheats determined to win at all costs?

[Neils]

Yep

[Andywasp50]

Today felt like we picked up from where we left off at the end of last season at Irish, so two games in a row we’ve capitulated huge leads. I doubt that’s mentality related, but more likely fitness and an inability in the coaches to adjust tactically mid game. We seem to have a set plan and stick to it - I have no idea why Robson went off so early unless it was a knock, but he was behind so much of our threat, creation of space and front foot ball when he was on. Charlie was supreme in the first half, particularly under the high ball - so good in fact that their kicking game did nothing other than play into our hands.

Skivington realised that and changed tactics in the second half, keeping the ball in hand more and concentrating on taking the ball into contact. When it boils down to collisions we’re in trouble as we lack physicality and lose a lot of the hits, end up tiring and giving ground. The gaps begin to open up and we struggle at the breakdown.

The key moment was in our first attack of the second half when the ball was fumbled by Spink 5 metres out when a pass behind him would have been a walk in under the posts. The ball bounced to Rees-Zamit and the rest is history! The crowd woke up, Glaws found momentum, we fell apart, Woodthorpe (about the same quality as Smales) lost his minerals and whistled everything he could in favour of the home side, ably assisted by the TJ in front of the Shed who seemed to only want to impress the locals with his offside, lineout and scrum calls - every 50/50 went against us, including legitimate steals by Launchbury, Barbeary and Willis at the breakdown and Frost being pinged for holding on after no more than a second after hitting the ground.

Hopefully we can get fitter and the coaches can learn to adjust tactically on the hoof, but hearing Blackett say ‘it was just a bad five minutes’ a few times in his post match interview was a bit mind boggling.

[Beasties]

Our scrum was a point of weakness again, only to be expected due to the bare bones LH situation. This will improve hopefully as we get our best LHs back. It gives the other team that glimmer of hope and chance to make inroads when we’ve otherwise got the upper hand. Every scrum was a potential pen and following lineout down the pitch. We missed out on signing VRR a few years ago, how I’d have loved him in our team yesterday. Top level prop, bet Ryan was happy to just have been facing Elrington for most of his minutes, as well as Ryan went.

[InBetweenWasp]

I find the discipline issue so hard at times, it's such a hard thing to coach as well. We were most guilty of the cardinal offence of stacking penalties and loosing huge amounts of territory because penalties in quick succession. I look at the times for penalties I've got here: 47', 48', 51' then 58', 60', 62' then 66', 67', 68' 70', 71' - how can you ever regain momentum like that? Look at the last block for example - we start in the Gloucester half with an attacking scrum which is pinged for wheeling, they kick into our 22 and maul forward and Tom Willis sacks it for a YC and a penalty, another maul and a another YC and a Penalty Try. We then kick off force a scrum in their half, with only 7 forwards we lose that, get kicked downfield and concede another penalty at a maul and they kick 3 points. In 6 minutes, we have lost two players and conceded 10 points and in effect the game because of 5 consecutive penalties.

I will go back to not knowing quite how to prevent that though, very few of our penalties were overly rash, real 'loss of discipline' errors - Tom Willis pulling the maul down probably the most obvious but even then they were already under an advantage for one of those tough maul pens where you think you are legal, get called and try to go back and still give away the penalty because it has hindered the opposition.

We have form for this whereby we concede a couple of penalities; innocuously to begin with but within those penalities they'll often be one that the pundits (and players) feel should have gone to them and not against them.  It seems to set off a chain-reaction whereby we got on the wrong side of the ref and often then spiral into a series of penalities and all this pressure.  It happened yesterday several times where both Alfie and Launch were clearly remonstrating with the ref.

There's a fine line here as it's probably a split view here between suggesting we park any decision against us, suck it up and get set to go again.  But there are others who will rightly point out that perhaps we need to get better and be able to talk to the ref.  It feels like the way we approach the ref rubs them up the wrong way.

Just on communicating with the ref - Jack won a penalty at a maul where he got hands on the ball just as Chapman was trying to take it out, the Commentators suggested he'd got into position illegally, but from the Refs perspective, he'd been asking the ref if he was ok and telling him he was on the ball the whole way through.

[DGP Wasp]

Inability to adapt is still worrying, as is the apparent mental fragility, ill discipline and lack of on field leadership.  Fix just one or two of those and the others will fall into place and suddenly we're going places.

There were however, some genuine positives amongst the gloom:

All 3 new players went very well.  Ryan and Odendaal did everything that we expected or hoped they would.  McDonald was maybe a bit more of a low key signing and something of an unknown quantity, but he looked very good, and should offer some real competition for the shirt when others return.
Atkinson is maturing very nicely and really looks like fulfilling his promise.  An excellent performance.  He and Robson seem to have built a very good understanding
Crossdale is a bloody site quicker than I think any of us had realised.  He was closing on LRZ (the "Fastest Player in the Premiership") running flat out for the corner.

Final point, wishing Minozzi well for a speedy recovery.  Poor bloke looked absolutely devastated when he was forced off.  Fingers crossed not too serious.

[Westy68]

I didn't see any penalties against us that i thought was wrong. The Alfie one Cruise was clearly on the wrong side and rightly penalised. I think we just need to increase intensity when we don't have the ball and stop being lazy at getting to the breakdown and into our defensive line.

Our scrum was was poor most of the time but that will change. Cruise was really poor yesterday and Frost really needs to work on his lineout throws. It will be interesting to see if Oghre is in the squad this weekend

[Wombles]

I don’t think sir had any bearing in the game at all. He pressure came on and our discipline went. When momentum is against you the dominant team will win the majority of the pens.

I am more disappointed in the yellows. Both needless, especially Biyi’s. They were clearly going over so don’t sack the maul illegally as you give up 7 points and a player for 10 minutes. Yes conceding hurts, but no conversion is guaranteed, and when you are fighting with 14 men don’t make the task harder.

Of course there are positives and the first 40 showed that if we play well consistently we could be right up there come the play offs. However the second forty showed just how much work we have to do.

[InBetweenWasp]

I'm in the more positives than negatives camp this morning.  It's one of those that before the game, i'd have taken a point or two and just wanted to see a positive performance from us where we show some attacking intent.  It's one of those games that hurts more than it should because the win was well and truly on.