Match Thread

[wasps]

It's not about bringing in good players. We already have good players, have had from the day Lee took over.

The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.

The coach's job is to take professional players and make them into a team. It'd be really nice if they tried that for a change.

I agree.. it's not the players.
What I meant was that when he first came in, we started winning immediately.
Maybe it was his leadership, or maybe they were rallying together after what had happened to Dai.
After the covid break, all games were pretty open and we adapted quickly.


There next season is when it went wrong.
It was Lee's first experience of having to deal with significant problems as the head honcho at a top level club.
He will have learnt a lot since then, and he's now had time to do whatever he feels is necessary including bringing in whatever players he feels he needs.


If he still can't get us winning and playing well, then I'd be starting to think that he's not able to at all

[Rossm]

The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.

Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.

[wasps]

The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.

Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.

Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.


While it's easy to say that the team don't have basic skills, the reality is that it's a minor thing that can easily change.... Often a confidence thing

[Rossm]

The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.

Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.

Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.

I'm pretty sure that is the correct assumption.

[Neils]

Home! That was beyond crap. Tom is our No 8. Full stop.

[Shugs]

Yes, beyond frustrating. I spent some time tracking our wingers live. Bassett his normal industrial self but Kibirige - without being unkind I was lost for words. We’ve got to play Mehson or an academy prospect going forward.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I didn't watch the game. Didn't even follow  progress on Twitter or whatever. Saw the resulting score. Comments here suggest I simply avoid the full match replay and/or highlights, and hope for better next week.

Sounds like all the usual suspects.

Lack of an on field leader (Joe)
Kibirige performing Quiet Quitting
Handling errors and dodgy offloads
Aimless, non-tactical kicking
Team of individuals

For me, right now, we have only one true captain, who is Brad, but he is off injured. I have seen all the other 'names' (like Dobbie) in action as captain and have been underwhelmed.
Odogwu or Mehson should be on, not Kibirige
Goodness knows how you program positional awareness and the ability to catch a ball that is not 100% perfect
The kicking is down to the scrum half, full back and fly half. It is woefully inaccurate and there seems to be no talent there. At their ages, it is too late. This is made at Junior level (U16-U18). No hope unless we buy in a kicker. That will cost a lot of money. We could have saved ourselves that cost by keeping Jimmy, but hey ho, that is what it is. Trouble is, we really aren't in the market to replace SH, FH or full back. So those guys need to spend hours upon hours getting better. Fast.
Teamwork is down to the coaches and the captain.

[wasps]

It makes no difference if Brad is Captain.
Just having him on the pitch is sufficient. He will say what he feels is required whether he is officially the captain or not.

[InBetweenWasp]

The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.

Hang on, that’s not quite true/fair is it.  During that lockdown season where we were playing multiple games a week he said that he was getting the team to focus on our strengths; counter-attacking from turnovers and unstructured play.

One of the big differences (between them and now) I think we responded to that goes relatively unspoken is the lack of contact training during the week because of the games.

Despite the historic rivalry, I think there’s a big similarity between us and Quins in terms of playing DNA.

[Shugs]

I must admit I’m losing patience with the coaching set up but equally to say it’s not about the players is bizarre. We’re not talking about complex, intricate routines, we’re talking about catching the ball. Not attempting miracle offloads. Not trying to pass out of the back of the hand. Not knocking on ad infinitum. Not just serving up one up runners. Not box kicking straight to them etc etc. Pro players should just be better than that.

[HDAWG]

It's not about bringing in good players. We already have good players, have had from the day Lee took over.

The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.

The coach's job is to take professional players and make them into a team. It'd be really nice if they tried that for a change.

Bang on. 2nd paragraph in particular.

[wasps]

I must admit I’m losing patience with the coaching set up but equally to say it’s not about the players is bizarre. We’re not talking about complex, intricate routines, we’re talking about catching the ball. Not attempting miracle offloads. Not trying to pass out of the back of the hand. Not knocking on ad infinitum. Not just serving up one up runners. Not box kicking straight to them etc etc. Pro players should just be better than that.

I'm saying that it's not about getting new players in.


Launchbury can catch
Jack can catch
They can all catch, they can all pass, they can all do the basics to an extremely high standard.


They're just not doing it at the moment, of for large parts of last season.


Therefore the questions are why, and how does someone change that?




As much as it pains me to say it, there have been other clubs where a change of coaching team is like flicking a switch and created an elite team from something that resembled my old 4th team.
Similarly there have been coaching changes that haven't improved anything.


Lee needs to work out what is required to get our guys playing to their ability. If he can do that, then he proves that he has what it takes to move us forward and potentially solve future problems too

[hopwood]

The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.

Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.

+1 to your first paragraph.
And in general agreement with your second. I think Alfie is a Number 8, but he’s young and still learning the ropes.

[hopwood]

The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.

Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.

Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.


While it's easy to say that the team don't have basic skills, the reality is that it's a minor thing that can easily change.... Often a confidence thing

+1

[Vespula Vulgaris]

The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.

Hang on, that’s not quite true/fair is it.  During that lockdown season where we were playing multiple games a week he said that he was getting the team to focus on our strengths; counter-attacking from turnovers and unstructured play.

We did a lot better then I agree. But the players weren't training much at all. It was mainly recovery, fitness, and analysis.

So in essence can we reasonably say that the less the coaching team tells the players what to do the better they perform?