Bath v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts.

[Heathen]

and IF-W might deserve a go too next week.

I'm with you on that call.

[JonnyD]

and IF-W might deserve a go too next week.

I'm with you on that call.

Bit of a catch 22 now, Kibirige probably won’t be considered on Tuesday after playing on Friday so we play Feyi-Waboso instead, but then he subsequently won’t play the following weekend against Saints because of the turnaround.
We have enough other young guns to play on Tuesday like Dawkins, Rokodrava, Kucera but it’s against Leicester so need to play a decent team too. Maybe Odogwu and IF-W split shifts at 14 ready to challenge for the right wing spot against Saints along with Mehson as it has to be up for grabs now.

[Rossm]

and IF-W might deserve a go too next week.

I'm with you on that call.

Bit of a catch 22 now, Kibirige probably won’t be considered on Tuesday after playing on Friday so we play Feyi-Waboso instead, but then he subsequently won’t play the following weekend against Saints because of the turnaround.
We have enough other young guns to play on Tuesday like Dawkins, Rokodrava, Kucera but it’s against Leicester so need to play a decent team too. Maybe Odogwu and IF-W split shifts at 14 ready to challenge for the right wing spot against Saints along with Mehson as it has to be up for grabs now.

Have you forgotten that next weekend is our bye week?

[Shugs]

It’s not even the attacking part of Kibirige’s game that worries me - I see the argument he’s had little ball. It’s the way Muir just ran past him, the way he bit in for their first try, the push that was stupid. He barely gets out of a jog at the moment and it’s a season long thing.

[WonkyWasp]

Is it my imagination (probably) but was play noticeably faster without the presence of the uber-active waterboys?  I thought it was a big improvement.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Is it my imagination (probably) but was play noticeably faster without the presence of the uber-active waterboys?  I thought it was a big improvement.

+1

[mike909]

Let’s be honest - the first half was sublime. Attack looked transformed as things stuck. Umaga added craft and the centres look like gelling. Bassett dangerous again. Willis and Willis immense as was Carr, West and Alo. Second half I’d liked to have seen West, Alo and Porter go a bit longer. But our defence was solid in that last 10. Kibirige looks a lost soul who really needs to come out of the matchday 23. Final mention to Tom Willis - back at 8 and was just fantastic as part of a much better balanced back row. 5 points away - good stuff.

Having now watched the whole game,, that's all fair. Tom at 8 was class, Jack as expected and Carr brilliant. Set piece ok, Westy looked solid and I always like Oghre at 2 for preference. But....wtf was going on after 45 mins? We started and completed the first half like a team and like a team comfortable in its plans and execution. And yet, I really thought we were going to lose (I knew the result....obvs) as we seemed to suddenly discard rational decision making for making mistakes and conceding silly penalties. We slowed up our play it seemed too. Not sure if that was an attempt to put our foot on the ball....but it failed to impress. Dan looked v frustrated again and again. It seemed we weren't adapting to the reffing as well as "second half Bath."

I'm relieved with the win and the points - but someone within the coaching team is going to have to identify wtf is going on or ask themselves if they are making tactical errors into the second halves. It wasn't helpful that Jack W went off for a card - but we seemed to be "stagnating" before that.

Specific issues. Full back, Jacob was playing as a great second 5/8th but really isn't a full back....Kibirige is not up to scratch. We know what he can do, perhaps time for a "lend" to get some game time?

[JonnyD]

and IF-W might deserve a go too next week.

I'm with you on that call.

Bit of a catch 22 now, Kibirige probably won’t be considered on Tuesday after playing on Friday so we play Feyi-Waboso instead, but then he subsequently won’t play the following weekend against Saints because of the turnaround.
We have enough other young guns to play on Tuesday like Dawkins, Rokodrava, Kucera but it’s against Leicester so need to play a decent team too. Maybe Odogwu and IF-W split shifts at 14 ready to challenge for the right wing spot against Saints along with Mehson as it has to be up for grabs now.

Have you forgotten that next weekend is our bye week?

Yes I did, bit of a shame to come at this stage  really now we could push on with the momentum.
In which case, anyone who’s not had a game or many minutes and is fit plays against Leicester - put a strong team out and then every spot is up for grabs after the bye week

[wasps]

Mike.
That's a good point regarding 2nd half tactics.


It could very definitely be a kind of plan to try to slow the game down and have more control in the 2nd half when we have a significant lead.


Afterall, we've all commented on how we often seem to still try to play open in the last 5 minutes when defending a small lead.


Unfortunately, it would seem that the team isn't comfortable with a slower, tighter plan if their instincts are to play running rugby.
Maybe the answer is to just let them, and try to deal with closing out games differently

[Shugs]

Let’s be honest - the first
half was sublime. Attack looked transformed as things stuck. Umaga added craft and the centres look like gelling. Bassett dangerous again. Willis and Willis immense as was Carr, West and Alo. Second half I’d liked to have seen West, Alo and Porter go a bit longer. But our defence was solid in that last 10. Kibirige looks a lost soul who really needs to come out of the matchday 23. Final mention to Tom Willis - back at 8 and was just fantastic as part of a much better balanced back row. 5 points away - good stuff.

Having now watched the whole game,, that's all fair. Tom at 8 was class, Jack as expected and Carr brilliant. Set piece ok, Westy looked solid and I always like Oghre at 2 for preference. But....wtf was going on after 45 mins? We started and completed the first half like a team and like a team comfortable in its plans and execution. And yet, I really thought we were going to lose (I knew the result....obvs) as we seemed to suddenly discard rational decision making for making mistakes and conceding silly penalties. We slowed up our play it seemed too. Not sure if that was an attempt to put our foot on the ball....but it failed to impress. Dan looked v frustrated again and again. It seemed we weren't adapting to the reffing as well as "second half Bath."

I'm relieved with the win and the points - but someone within the coaching team is going to have to identify wtf is going on or ask themselves if they are making tactical errors into the second halves. It wasn't helpful that Jack W went off for a card - but we seemed to be "stagnating" before that.

Specific issues. Full back, Jacob was playing as a great second 5/8th but really isn't a full back....Kibirige is not up to scratch. We know what he can do, perhaps time for a "lend" to get some game time?

Agree re Umaga. On balance I think it’s a close call between him, Crossdale and Minozzi. None are the whole package at the moment.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Mike.
That's a good point regarding 2nd half tactics.


It could very definitely be a kind of plan to try to slow the game down and have more control in the 2nd half when we have a significant lead.


Afterall, we've all commented on how we often seem to still try to play open in the last 5 minutes when defending a small lead.


Unfortunately, it would seem that the team isn't comfortable with a slower, tighter plan if their instincts are to play running rugby.
Maybe the answer is to just let them, and try to deal with closing out games differently

It is far easier to play out the last five minutes camped in the opposition 5m with a hefty lead. Playing a slower game would be an insane game plan for Wasps. That they appear to have done this for the last 3 games is piling insanity upon insanity. That has to be a coaching goal. When we play fast, we can win.

[mike909]

Mike.
That's a good point regarding 2nd half tactics.


It could very definitely be a kind of plan to try to slow the game down and have more control in the 2nd half when we have a significant lead.


Afterall, we've all commented on how we often seem to still try to play open in the last 5 minutes when defending a small lead.


Unfortunately, it would seem that the team isn't comfortable with a slower, tighter plan if their instincts are to play running rugby.
Maybe the answer is to just let them, and try to deal with closing out games differently

It is far easier to play out the last five minutes camped in the opposition 5m with a hefty lead. Playing a slower game would be an insane game plan for Wasps. That they appear to have done this for the last 3 games is piling insanity upon insanity. That has to be a coaching goal. When we play fast, we can win.

It just struck me today. I knew the result, was able to watch the whole game and make notes.....And it seemed a stand out yesterday and then I thought back to the last two games....It just seemed to be deliberate/planned. But better judges than me will have an opinion!

[Rossm]

Let’s be honest - the first
half was sublime. Attack looked transformed as things stuck. Umaga added craft and the centres look like gelling. Bassett dangerous again. Willis and Willis immense as was Carr, West and Alo. Second half I’d liked to have seen West, Alo and Porter go a bit longer. But our defence was solid in that last 10. Kibirige looks a lost soul who really needs to come out of the matchday 23. Final mention to Tom Willis - back at 8 and was just fantastic as part of a much better balanced back row. 5 points away - good stuff.

Having now watched the whole game,, that's all fair. Tom at 8 was class, Jack as expected and Carr brilliant. Set piece ok, Westy looked solid and I always like Oghre at 2 for preference. But....wtf was going on after 45 mins? We started and completed the first half like a team and like a team comfortable in its plans and execution. And yet, I really thought we were going to lose (I knew the result....obvs) as we seemed to suddenly discard rational decision making for making mistakes and conceding silly penalties. We slowed up our play it seemed too. Not sure if that was an attempt to put our foot on the ball....but it failed to impress. Dan looked v frustrated again and again. It seemed we weren't adapting to the reffing as well as "second half Bath."

I'm relieved with the win and the points - but someone within the coaching team is going to have to identify wtf is going on or ask themselves if they are making tactical errors into the second halves. It wasn't helpful that Jack W went off for a card - but we seemed to be "stagnating" before that.

Specific issues. Full back, Jacob was playing as a great second 5/8th but really isn't a full back....Kibirige is not up to scratch. We know what he can do, perhaps time for a "lend" to get some game time?

Agree re Umaga. On balance I think it’s a close call between him, Crossdale and Minozzi. None are the whole package at the moment.

Well, both Matteo and Ali are out for quite a few weeks, so Jacob better stay fit. If we need rotation, can WH-W play 15?

[wasps]

Mike.
That's a good point regarding 2nd half tactics.


It could very definitely be a kind of plan to try to slow the game down and have more control in the 2nd half when we have a significant lead.


Afterall, we've all commented on how we often seem to still try to play open in the last 5 minutes when defending a small lead.


Unfortunately, it would seem that the team isn't comfortable with a slower, tighter plan if their instincts are to play running rugby.
Maybe the answer is to just let them, and try to deal with closing out games differently

It is far easier to play out the last five minutes camped in the opposition 5m with a hefty lead. Playing a slower game would be an insane game plan for Wasps. That they appear to have done this for the last 3 games is piling insanity upon insanity. That has to be a coaching goal. When we play fast, we can win.

Playing a slower game may not be the right terminology.


But would it be so insane to have a big lead at half time and then ask the players to be a little more careful with some of their loose play, and maybe play a little safer.
That would seem fairly sensible.


However, when it comes to implementing that, it comes down to how that's interpreted by the team and by individuals, and how they carry it out when put under pressure.


It's also distinctly possible that it's not entirely conscious.
Maybe with such a big lead, players naturally back off a little bit. You see it a lot in all sports. A football team may be 5 or 6 goals up at half time, but they never score another 5 or 6 in the 2nd half.




.... And finally, there's the opposition to consider.
Their coaches can see that what they were doing in the 1st half wasn't working and they'll change things.
On the other hand, we may go out and do what we were doing before, but now it doesn't work

[Andywasp50]

Watching Saints v Tigers was along the same lines today. Saints got ahead through expansive phases and identifying the space Tigers were exposing with their kick chase.

Saints had a solid lead so Tigers tightened up and took the ball into contact, winning collisions and drawing numbers into the ruck and the physicality did for Northampton. I think we need to be wary of numbers in the ruck as we seem to be on the backfoot at the breakdown once momentum shifts and opponents look for the arm wrestle.

Having said that Tigers were helped by an atrocious refereeing performance by Dickson, who really is over excitable and pushing the levels of competence at the moment.