Always a Wasp

Author Topic: BB - Administrator Confident  (Read 3993 times)

Heathen

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2022, 10:52:16 PM »
Extract fro a Times article published at 18.00 this evening : (It may already have been chewed over already on here)

“That is what spooked our investors, the lack of clarity on the P share and how they could make a return for their investments,” Armstrong said. “We asked PRL to change the rules or make an exception for us and Worcester but we got no support for that. Our investors made it a red line that if they didn’t receive the P share clean then they couldn’t move forward.”

FRP, the insolvency firm working with Wasps, accepted the prospects of a quick sale is slim but sources have said there were doubts as to whether Terminus Capital had sufficient funds.

“The real thrust now must be to find a preferred party,” Andrew Sheridan, the joint administrator, said. “We’ve been talking to somebody today and are reasonably hopeful, confident. I would say that tomorrow we will be pushing them forward and pushing them in front of the RFU to get that process going.”

Andywasp50

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2022, 12:17:56 AM »
"Martyn Phillips, the chairman of Premiership Rugby (PRL), explained last week that the league could not endorse a situation where clubs were able to shed debt in administration but retain full access to central funding, arguing it would create inequality and act as a bad precedent."

Whereas persistent cheating and largely getting away with it creates no inequality and acts as an excellent precedent of course.  All clubs are equal, but some are more equal than others.
.

We can't pay our players. Saracens paid their players too much. Clearly different situations. Ones cheating and another is complete collapse of a company.

Saracens were punished and in my opinion aren't cheating anymore. They are still unlikable as hell and I hate them. I think the prem have treated both situations correctly.

Clearly Saracens should've been stripped for assets and banned indefinitely. And our debt should've magically paid off. But sadly people, that isn't realistic!

Saracens were guilty of the biggest cheating scandal in British professional sport (I can’t think of another). They cheated the league, the English game, their fellow professionals both on and off the pitch, and did it with a leering arrogance. They still refused to open their books even when punished. They should have been relegated a few divisions, stripped of their P share, stripped of their titles and their squad disbanded.

I don’t want to turn this thread into an anti-Saracens piece, but the fact they got away with it for so long and then were so lightly punished in relation to what they did, contributed to the rising debts in other clubs who were trying to keep up - a lot through trying to attract and pay players, but also losing players that they had invested heavily in, eg at the outset, Billy V, Hodgson, Wigglesworth, Borthwick, ongoing to include the likes of Strettle, Johnson, Singleton, Daly, Ashton etc. They freely cherry picked from other clubs who had to break the bank to keep up having also been nobbled trying to replace their investments.

But it’s impossible to keep up with someone financially doping and clubs like us are the first to fall. I thought our galactico squad of 2017 was madness as we surely were way beyond our means, even though we were attracting big crowds.

Can you imagine Lance Armstrong being caught cheating for all those years, being fined an ‘inconvenient’ sum of money, allowed to keep his titles, told he had to go away for a year and requalify but could come back as long as he wasn’t cheating still, but refused to have a drugs test anyway? There would have been uproar. This feels how it’s gone with saracens - the key point being the impact and damage as a result has been greater on the competition and the other clubs than it is on saracens themselves.

We are one of the first to fall in trying to keep up and be sustainable. We’d clearly taken the decision to develop exciting young prospects and sprinkle that with some wise overseas buys, ditch the DoR role and hope that kept us competitive. We were going to fight to keep in the top eight for a few years, but with the youngsters like Charlie, Porter, Spink, Oghre, Alfie, etc alongside Launch, Robson, the Willis brothers, would soon of had a golden group that would have had us challenging. We’d decided we couldn’t keep up with the money sides and would develop talent instead.

This is why it grates with me so much and I’m prattling on here. The club spent the last 2/3 seasons on a journey to becoming financially viable with the added bonus of developing outstanding talent for Wasps and England. We were prepared to compromise domestic success to do so. So when PRL and the RFU steadfastly refuse to let us retain our P share and survive, they are refusing to acknowledge the sensible approach we’ve taken and the rewards they can reap from it. Instead they treat us more harshly than proven cheats who I can imagine are now so powerful within both bodies that they are pushing the short sighted agenda for a 10 club league along with some other ‘big’ clubs, with their eyes on the money they will get from our P share. The PRL and RFU should be protecting the interests of the game, not the big clubs, and should be looking at the sensible approach we’ve taken on the pitch that it will benefit English rugby in the longer term. Instead they’ve decided rules are rules (unless you are the cheats) and it’s better to smash up a special group that Wasps have invested in and developed through sheer hard work. It’s now all about riches rather than potential.

Sorry for the rant! I’d better go and lie down in a dark room now…
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 12:31:12 AM by Andywasp50 »

wasps

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2022, 01:52:48 AM »
Quote
But it’s impossible to keep up with someone financially doping and clubs like us are the first to fall. I thought our galactico squad of 2017 was madness as we surely were way beyond our means, even though we were attracting big crowd


Just to comment on one point...
How far beyond our means were we?
1 overseas marquee player outside of the cap, plus Joe launchbury outside of the cap.

Worst case scenario, our total salaries were £1m-£1.2m over the old salary cap limit.
I agree that we clearly weren't earning enough to cover that, but over 5 years that's a worst case scenario of a £6m loss.
If that was a major part of our debt now, I think we wouldn't have a problem

BlackAndGoldSunglasses

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2022, 08:54:00 AM »
The club spent the last 2/3 seasons on a journey to becoming financially viable with the added bonus of developing outstanding talent for Wasps and England. We were prepared to compromise domestic success to do so.

Indeed. For the six months to Covid we broke even across the Group. Financial stability on the cusp of being attained, and the future looking pretty good.

Which is why I am genuinely struggling to get my head around the position of PRL and the lack of traction for the "Covid clause". We are genuinely in a different position to Worcester, and have - by my reading - been royally f**ked over by HRMC and PRL.

mike909

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2022, 09:07:04 AM »
On a parallel issue - I've been a regular contributor to comments on rugby in the Guardian. I've not commented since our problems became apparent. I do want to post something but have been put off by the various comments from people who'd prefer to rely upon what they think they know rather than the reality. Posters that I've had adult conversations with who now want to diss Wasps...

The reality that some of their clubs are only in good financial health because of rich benefactors doesn't seem a factor. And the reality that suggests Wasps were some sort of parasite in Coventry and that our demise was almost deserved.

If we could put a statement together - I'd probably post it but I can't face posting on the Guardian rugby as it's all too raw at present. Rugby fans would only be supportive, surely? It probably demonstrates that there are twats everywhere!

Westy68

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2022, 09:41:51 AM »
On a parallel issue - I've been a regular contributor to comments on rugby in the Guardian. I've not commented since our problems became apparent. I do want to post something but have been put off by the various comments from people who'd prefer to rely upon what they think they know rather than the reality. Posters that I've had adult conversations with who now want to diss Wasps...

The reality that some of their clubs are only in good financial health because of rich benefactors doesn't seem a factor. And the reality that suggests Wasps were some sort of parasite in Coventry and that our demise was almost deserved.

If we could put a statement together - I'd probably post it but I can't face posting on the Guardian rugby as it's all too raw at present. Rugby fans would only be supportive, surely? It probably demonstrates that there are twats everywhere!

Amen to that I'm afraid

Neils

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2022, 09:47:04 AM »
Rugby fans supportive - pah!

Most rely solely on what they hear or read. Much of the pre-admin reading was based on Gilbert's biased crap. I got sick of trying to correct friends who split into the EA and Queens categories. We now do not talk rugby at all. Sad. It even spread to Wasps fans at the Saints match with some only seeing what the BBC put out - mostly Gilbert crap.
Maybe I come into the sad category whereby I search for various commentary.
Let me tell you something cucumber

wasps

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2022, 10:01:48 AM »
I'm probably beginning cynical, but really all we've got is Vaughan's word in an interview that we had 6 months of trading even.
I'm not even sure that exactly means zero financial loss in that period.


Can we be sure it's true?




Rifleman Harris

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2022, 10:17:26 AM »
I would imagine it's an earnings figure before any deductions.

WonkyWasp

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2022, 10:17:56 AM »
 About  5,6 years ago I used a  local (Herefordshire)  community taxi service (we get one bus a week to Abergavenny for 2 and a half hours) and the driver described Wasps as that rugby team who had got the CCFC thrown out of their home.  I set about explaining the truth to him and by the end of the journey he had a proper vision of the truth.  We were still friends  but his ear had gone into melt down.  The Trump method of indoctrination was obviously being used by others before Trump went viral.

mike909

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2022, 10:34:48 AM »
About  5,6 years ago I used a  local (Herefordshire)  community taxi service (we get one bus a week to Abergavenny for 2 and a half hours) and the driver described Wasps as that rugby team who had got the CCFC thrown out of their home.  I set about explaining the truth to him and by the end of the journey he had a proper vision of the truth.  We were still friends  but his ear had gone into melt down.  The Trump method of indoctrination was obviously being used by others before Trump went viral.
Seems like such mis-info is widely believed. One "fan" was suggesting we were trying to cut into Midlands rugby support - which given it was a new city for pro rugby seemed rather paranoid and that we were v unpopular in Coventry, a "city pleased to se the back of us"

I'm saddened but I suppose less surprised by the "football style" commentary that's so widespread. It's part of the reason I find following Jones' England so difficult. I was shouting for Scotland last 6Ns as we were so deserving of another beating!

WonkyWasp

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2022, 10:41:18 AM »
Haven't shouted for England for years. Nor watched it. Hopefully EJ will find alternative accommodation.

Rugbyintheblood

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2022, 11:28:25 AM »
One "fan" was suggesting we were trying to cut into Midlands rugby support - which given it was a new city for pro rugby seemed rather paranoid and that we were v unpopular in Coventry, a "city pleased to se the back of us"
[/quote]

I felt I needed to confirm here that Wasps are adored in Coventry by thousands of rugby supporters and so I’d be hopeful they do stay at the CBSA. At the matches I meet lots a locals and we love it!

Get the right backer now and we can be back in the Premiership very soon. Continuing to build momentum and a larger fan base here is possible.

PS This season I have been to watch Cov v Ealing and I do watch lower level matches … but the way Wasps play is miles better to watch.

mike909

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2022, 11:37:56 AM »
Yeah - I guessed that the bullshit was strong in that "supporter" - paranoia is strong with that Tiger....

DGP Wasp

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Re: BB - Administrator Confident
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2022, 12:30:32 PM »

Maybe I come into the sad well informed category whereby I search for various commentary.

Sadly, very few people fall into that "well informed" category in this age of social media and easy click-bait headlines when people just can't be arsed to find out the truth for themselves and just absorb media sound bites that promote a particular agenda.  Shame we can't deny the ill informed majority the vote.