England

[Neils]

Completely forgot there was rugby.

Doesn't sound like I missed much.

Wheelchair Rugby League eas superb. Next up on Wednesday

[westwaleswasp]

Jones is an arsehole.
Power is bullshit, everyone has power and SA have more.
Playing rugby is required. We should have been  playing with Wade on the wing for five years, instead we are scrabbling around with Joe C.  Guys like Ben Youngs at SH? Says it all and when push comes to shove, Eddie will not learn.

[Wombles]

Ben Youngs is ponderously slow, and indeed his constant need to wind up his pass and take 1-2 steps is not good enough at international level.

Joe C is a young man, who needs to develop in the premiership as he currently has to underdeveloped a game to step up....However Jones see's big and fast(ish) and thats enough.

Nowell is really struggling, yet Jones ignores form.

Jones also needs to make a decision on either Farrell or Smith as they are not working together. My gut would be if you remove Farrell you will realise the potential of Smith. However we are unlikely to see this as Farrell fits the Jones model of pragmatism.

I admit though I have NEVER seen such a team so limited, so prescribed and yet so lacking in ideas. Compare and contrast with Ireland who know exactly what each other is doing, back one another, yet can play multiple phases with a huge understanding with one another. We are so far from this it is unreal. However equally it is very clear why its happening because Eddie Jones is so obsessed at finding a new way, and new edge that he tries everything. He muddies the waters, and yet equally is not against heading off on a sojourn. There is no clarity, no understanding and no ambition.

I think when Jones goes, and the risk of speaking against him lessons we will find things were not the rosy picture the players paint.

[Old Geezer]

Wanted England to lose so I am happy.  We will be lucky if we et to the QF's in the RWC.

[JonnyD]

Haven’t watched it yet and probably now won’t bother.

What a depressing time to be an England and Wasps rugby fan.

Really enjoyed watching France again, as well as keeping tabs on Biyi, Wade, Brookes and hopefully Brad soon in the French league, that’s where I see my rugby viewing heading.

[mike909]

I'm sure we've all seen this before.....It rings truer and truer as time passes

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms

[Andywasp50]

I didn't bother with it and didn't miss anything by the looks of it.

The most telling thing is his team selection. All the talk about rebuilding and evolving with a younger, refreshed team for the next world cup and he's still picking near on the same side that lost the final last time. What a waste of four years..

Jones hasn't got any new ideas and seems blind to the fact that by sticking with his aging, failing group England are falling further and further behind the top sides. It's like a slow car crash and as usual the RFU are oblivious to the malaise and won't wake up until it's too late.

[JonnyD]

I'm sure we've all seen this before.....It rings truer and truer as time passes

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms

I would love to know how many coaches and back room staff he’s churned through during his tenure.

Shame he doesn’t get through a similar amount of scrum halves

[westwaleswasp]

Eddie, just Eddie. The same old. We have a high win pc because of who we play- when it comes to a team by team basis, his record is not the best in terms of tier one matches. Only a total fool thinks we can win with players out of position, powering out way to the WC. SA didn't power their way to a WC.  They had a realatively easy route, only had to beat Wales really after losing in the group stages, and then met England in the final, whom they over powered- it wasn't supposed to be  a blueprint. There were better teams in the event. Every top tier team in the world would have beaten England- Woodward had it correct in that we prepared for the final in a way that was custom made to not win it. Expect a poor 6n, and an England team in the semi or final of the WC, and no trophy at the end.

[JF]

I know that my interest in the game has diminished of late but have they changed the way the game is scored?

Is it now like billiards, do you get points when your players canon into the opposition?

It's bad enough that watching Wasps isn't an option, it's a whole lot worse when this is the alternative.

[Shugs]

What I just can’t fathom are the following:
Vunipola is a liability at scrum time and we have three or four better.
Our second row has to be Itoje and Clarke.
If Willis can’t get a game in the back row there’s something really amiss and much as I loathe his screaming Earl has to be in there.
Backs wise it’s patently obvious we have 4-5 better scrum halves than Youngs.
Farrell at 12 has stymied any attacking intent we might have had for years.
I keep reading how good Tuilagi is but never see him do anything.
I can’t think of a less mobile and inventive pair of wingers than Cockanasinga and Nowell.
Outside of that you’ve got Daly who is now in a rich vein of form and not picked but got continually picked when out of form (coincidence he’s hit form now not with England?). Lawrence is tearing it up at Bath. Radwan, Roebuck, Hassell-Collins, would add the pace we’re desperately short of. You could go on and on. Many England fans now want them to lose to facilitate getting rid of Jones. He should be presiding over a top team but he’s simply ruined it.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Good post, Shugs.

I keep reading how good Tuilagi is but never see him do anything.

From the 50 mins or so I watched he made one thundering tackle that had the commentators in raptures and banging on about how powerful he is from a standing start. We never seem him do something magical, only ever crashing in to players. That seems to be Eddie's benchmark for selection: big, strong and lacking rugby brains. I suppose it means they'll do as they're told but it also accounts for their lack of ability to come up with a Plan B on the pitch.

Outside of that you’ve got Daly who is now in a rich vein of form and not picked but got continually picked when out of form (coincidence he’s hit form now not with England?).

How many times have we complained about players being on form and then losing it after they've been to an England camp? Correlation doesn't mean causation, but it does mean that at some point you should start investigating.

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

Have to query what Gleeson is adding to the party. I was unconvinced by his time at Wasps, the attack seemed less fluent and stagnated I thought. Was surprised with Eddie came calling.

Although Eddie has been in post for a long time, his coaching staff haven't - the churn has been relentless. Eddie is a notoriously hard bugger to work for (says so in his own book), but long term that may be proving counter-productive.

Some of our best attacking play came in SA a couple of years back with Scott Wisemantel as attack coach (although we did lose the series).

Anyway - agree with all the other posters: turgid, stodgy affair. I don't buy the "keep cards close to our chest" crap.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

EJ really only wants players who do exactly what he tells them to, when he tells them. Ben Youngs and others are simply very good at doing that. Alternatives want to mix it up a bit, and EJ does not want that.

[WonkyWasp]

EJ doesn't want players who think for themselves.   If he finds that they do  -  out they go.