Local Team gets its digs in -

[mike909]

To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.

Well put. The EA's situation still grates - but in order to participate in general discussions elsewhere - I've had to put it to one side - even when conversing with some of their v smug supporters. If they can basically "play" the system because they could afford a season relegated, not open their books and expect to be welcomed back to the Prem - then our problems look rather low key....

[baldpaul101]

Yes. And/or. If one or two more clubs cannot continue to finance players to the cap. Suppose two clubs started lowering wage offers substantially, to get down to maybe £1-1.5m a year? Started saying to players who were likely to leave because oof this, if you want to go, find a new club now and we will release you?

With 'no relegation' this year, they would be safe doing that. Cutting costs massively (and as time goes by, costs drop), but keep the PRL money coming in, and watching attendance fall down to their core support? Not mentioning any names (Falcons and Irish). In effect, if only one club goes 'down' each year, one of those two clubs keeps that up for two years and maybe survives with no loss of face.

Which prompted me to go look at the PRL table. Haven't done that for a while. Bristol at the bottom, Bath at 8th. Two clubs with all the money, but not the glory. However, the two clubs I expected there are there or thereabouts in 9th and 10th; Falcons and Irish.

Two teams out, one in. Two teams without a sugar daddy out, one with a sugar daddy in.

It still leaves the PRL with a problem. They need to get rid of one team (net) in the PRL. They need one more to go under. If those two clubs I mentioned aren't going to play ball and do that, they still have a problem. At some point, two teams have to go down, or one team goes down with no promotion (for Ealing).

And then, depending on what happens at Worcester (at this time they are gone completely), more than one club will be relegated from the Championship to keep that at 12.

This is the real problem. Everything needs to be sorted out asap, but with the Warriors situation unresolved how can it be? I suspect that whatever the outcome there will be clubs who are very unhappy one way or another.

[westwaleswasp]

Sarries didn't really keep the titles in the eyes of the club rugby public, to be fair. Nobody thinks 'winners' when their name is mentioned, it is instead 'cheats'.

I don't think we can draw a line and move forward with us until we find out what went on, exactly. We need to see what went on and really who is to blame before just moving on.

More to the point, one of these is guilt by a club en masse  one isn't. Everyone at the salary cheating club on a to wage would have had a huge inkling that there was fiscal cheating going on. Maybe some at the lower end wouldn't, most would it is
basic  maths.  Our situation is different, (a) cheating is worse than pretty much any fiscal shenanigans that occurred and (b) less subjectively there is no way a player or coach would have an idea on boardroom level shenanigans on any board. Roughly put Joe L or Dan R would not have had a clue about what was coming. If they dud they would not have been there. Farrell, Vinupolas et al would have been well aware of their pay and would have known that Jamie George wasn't just working there for the pies and lunch money and Daly for a new briefcase.

So not really comparable or relevant. We will be a new club with an old name. The one thing that needs to be cleared up is - how much was Chris Holland responsible for in terms of decisions and who is to blame for what occurred. That does need to be established before a line can be drawn as he is involved with the new bid.

[Neils]

Hmm. Holland's situation - you would hope he was just a bit part player but I doubt it. If/when DR finally speaks out, if ever, we might get more of an idea. For now he is Saviour No 1 and will be supported.

From the shock and tears that we have heard from and about our former players I think it can be rightly assumed they knew diddly squat about the severity of the situation. Reading Ben Harris's interview posted yesterday should remove doubts.

On the EAs - the have been found to be serial cheats. The first time, along with the team just bringing in an expensive marquee and one other, it was agreed to be swept under the carpet. The second time they refused to open their books. Now we are told everyone has to open their books so where have all the nefarious dealings disappeared to from their accounts. Creative hiding could be suggested. Let's not also forget the recent long term cheating by the Leicester Cheetahs. Five full years to have been found to have overspent the cap by an amount just under the point where points are deducted. Five years! That is designed cheating on an epic scale.
Forgive and forget - nah. I have EA friends but we now avoid the subject completely

[Rugby_Mad_Wasp]

CH was one of the Board who voted yes to the £60m bid that DR vetoed by abstaining which would have saved the club and employees, so I think he has the best interests of Wasps at heart and has found the only way to keep the club going.

[Mellie]

The second time they refused to open their books. Now we are told everyone has to open their books...

Oh the irony of that! Unfortunately PRL was a toothless and spineless organisation and having been dragged across the coals by DCMS now want to change that. That explains why they are now coming down harder on enforcing rules.

When Saracens refused to open their books PRL should have said you will be relegated until you do. Instead they acquiesced to the power that Sarries wielded and only made it 1 year. That Sarries were willing to take the drop it's obvious that the degree of cheating was enormous.

[Shugs]

On Holland my reading is that the dye was cast before he had any meaningful involvement. The initial debt was too much for us to ever shake off. We had a chance in a supportive and settled wider economic climate. Unfortunately what we got was a pandemic, a war and a general perfect storm of instability. I may be wrong but I think Holland would have joined in the midst of this and as such would just have been putting out fires where possible.

[WonkyWasp]

Plus 1

[andermt]

Quick check on Companies house, Chris Holland joined the board on the 19th June 2017

[baldpaul101]

This was the announcement in Aug 2017

Christopher Holland has joined the Wasps Board as Non-Executive Director.

Holland has more than 30 years’ experience in Law Enforcement and Risk Management and has held senior and board level appointments in the MOD (Military of Defence) and FTSE 100 companies including Marks & Spencer, Sainsburys and B&Q, as well as regulated Financial Institutions where he was responsible for Security, Profit Protection, Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery.

Through his managed companies, Holland has also been the sole European supplier of security services to international companies; particularly in the retail and financial sectors.

Wasps CEO Nick Eastwood said: “As a club and as a venue, the safety and security of our staff, partners, supporters and Ricoh Arena visitors continue to be a priority.

“We are keen for the Board to contain experts from a wide range of fields that will benefit the business as a whole. Chris is one of the country’s leading authorities in security and the development and implementation of plans and procedures for the protection of People, Property, Profit and Brand.

“We already have strong security protocols in place at the Ricoh Arena, but it is important to continually evolve and improve and we are looking forward to working with Chris to ensure we have the most effective risk management procedures for our venue and IT infrastructure.”

Speaking about the new role, Chris Holland said: “I am excited by the opportunity of adding my professional support to a passionate brand and business, and look forward to helping Wasps create a Centre of excellence in Security & Risk Management at the Ricoh Arena.”

[Vespula Vulgaris]

By the end he was Chief Operating Officer, so second to Steve Vaughan in the running of the business.

[ColonelWasp]

To be honest I'm not sure how much of a say Stephen Vaughan got on some of the "big" decisions. He did some good Commercial Deals, was a good promoter of the club and a decent guy in my opinion.

However (as with vetoing the bid and his repayments from the bond) I think Derek did what Derek wanted to and as he owned 98% (via Moonstone I think) then who could stop him?

I have been told that Derek owed money to Chris Holland and the Training Ground situation may have been part of that maybe as a settlement?

I've not met Chris Holland, but do have a business contact who has dealt with him in the past and says that he is a decent guy so unless I know any different, I'd take that at face value as being genuine.

[Heathen]

This was the announcement in Aug 2017

Christopher Holland has joined the Wasps Board as Non-Executive Director.

Holland has more than 30 years’ experience in Law Enforcement and Risk Management and has held senior and board level appointments in the MOD (Military of Defence) and FTSE 100 companies including Marks & Spencer, Sainsburys and B&Q, as well as regulated Financial Institutions where he was responsible for Security, Profit Protection, Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery.

Through his managed companies, Holland has also been the sole European supplier of security services to international companies; particularly in the retail and financial sectors.

Wasps CEO Nick Eastwood said: “As a club and as a venue, the safety and security of our staff, partners, supporters and Ricoh Arena visitors continue to be a priority.

“We are keen for the Board to contain experts from a wide range of fields that will benefit the business as a whole. Chris is one of the country’s leading authorities in security and the development and implementation of plans and procedures for the protection of People, Property, Profit and Brand.

“We already have strong security protocols in place at the Ricoh Arena, but it is important to continually evolve and improve and we are looking forward to working with Chris to ensure we have the most effective risk management procedures for our venue and IT infrastructure.”

Speaking about the new role, Chris Holland said: “I am excited by the opportunity of adding my professional support to a passionate brand and business, and look forward to helping Wasps create a Centre of excellence in Security & Risk Management at the Ricoh Arena.”

Sounds as though he is well used to wearing a hard hat!

[Brandnewtorugby]

Still not satisfied that Wasps have left Coventry then. Does he really think that CRFC or Moseley are going to lose one supporter to Wasps because they are a tenant in Solihull? I am also sick of all the bleating over the years. I thought that might have come to an end, but sadly not.

He is the CEO of CRFC so he is speaking for the club. On that basis he can shove any interest I may have had in attending that fixture up his Butts. We are clearly not welcome.

[Mellie]

It seems Mr Johnston believes the Championship is HIS league or CRFC's league. He mentions it more than once. It's not his league or his club's league at all. Does he seriously believe the RFU must consult him for his approval before relegating a premiership team into the Championship? And our relegation is definitely not done as a helping hand out of RFU favouritism.

It should be pointed out that London Irish have moved 5 miles down the road from the Stoop. Same distance as from CBS Arena to Butt's Park. Didn't hear any complaints from Quins.

And if we move to Solihull that's only 2 miles closer to Butts Park than Saracens are from London Irish.