TRP

[Andywasp50]

I personally think English rugby is on its last legs already. I'm still so sick about us going under that I've not watched much of the Prem, and once done you realise how low a profile it has and how easy it is to lose interest.

When I've dipped in now and again it's been utterly boring, and looking at the final table (and the games I dipped in to), you've got the masters of 'kick and chase' rugby - the EAs - finishing an easy top, and their apprentices at Sale and Tigers second and third. Even Borthwick is an advocate of the EA's style so we'll see that with England too. How does that attract new fans? Add in the laws around tackle height and number of red cards being inconsistently issued by refs and it's not an attractive proposition for fans live or on TV.

The EAs are still capable of fielding a decent second team against Bath in a league game because they've wrapped up the number one spot so early, and with the RFU rolling over to Baxter's pressure for a 10 team league, it's just going to be a closed shop borefest with Saracens winning most years. I imagine the 10 team competition won't have a salary cap and will end up like the Scottish Football Premiership, low on quality with two clubs fighting it out for the title and the same one winning every year, whilst everyone celebrates the achievement of the richest club only to get a rude awakening in European and International competition. And unlike football, Union doesn't rank as number one sport.

Maybe they should change the name from Union to Cabal (they would if Baxter told them!). Really sad times for such a great game.

[BlackAndGoldSunglasses]

Armageddon beckons IMHO for professional club rugby in England.

The only way forward, as I see it is to go to the models that Ireland for years and Scotland, more recently, have adopted.

North, South, Central and West for example. To play in a UK and IRL comprtition.

Think I floated a regional approach on another thread. Could work, in the same way that the Super Rugby franchises operate above the club / league structure, with dual-registration and so on.

Would enable the four regions to be competitive at the top level (ie. with the French and Irish clubs and provinces) and club identities could be maintained below.

Won't happen though - requires radical thinking and balls on behalf of the governing bodies. No chance.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Its not lack of radical thinking that makes the regional teams idea extremely unlikely but lack of cold, hard, cash. How are they going to buy out the existing owners and then finance the four regions?

Personally I don't like the idea as it makes the England side the be all and all of rugby and the sport will go the way of cricket, a sport I once loved.

[InBetweenWasp]

How are they going to buy out the existing owners and then finance the four regions?

The PRL shares will be the bottleneck.  CVC has shown itself to be an ineffective Investment Partner in the PRL; it's unclear what positive impact (if any) they've had on the game but perversely they probably have the ability to 'save' the PRL and lead its restructure by buying out the remaining shares. 

I'm sure the RFU would relinquish control/oversight of The Championship - at the moment it's another cash drain on the RFU.  That would pave the way for a 2 division structure for Professional Mens Rugby in the UK with an ability to start from scratch.

Not sure how else significant change could be made or who else would buy the shares.

[Neils]

How are they going to buy out the existing owners and then finance the four regions?

The PRL shares will be the bottleneck.  CVC has shown itself to be an ineffective Investment Partner in the PRL; it's unclear what positive impact (if any) they've had on the game but perversely they probably have the ability to 'save' the PRL and lead its restructure by buying out the remaining shares. 

I'm sure the RFU would relinquish control/oversight of The Championship - at the moment it's another cash drain on the RFU.  That would pave the way for a 2 division structure for Professional Mens Rugby in the UK with an ability to start from scratch.

Not sure how else significant change could be made or who else would buy the shares.

I've got a suspicion that CVC are sitting back taking their substantial wedge each year from PRL, URC and 6N. Sitting watching things go slowly pear shaped then in time as the "saviour" will step in and more fully fund things. At that time everything will be joined up or ditched.

[InBetweenWasp]

I've got a suspicion that CVC are sitting back taking their substantial wedge each year from PRL, URC and 6N. Sitting watching things go slowly pear shaped then in time as the "saviour" will step in and more fully fund things. At that time everything will be joined up or ditched.

This is partly driven by what feels like (I have no proper evidence or calculations) and over-valuation of the PRL shares.  IIRC we accounted them at ?15-20m and Warriors was around ?12-15m.  But IIRC there was talk of other teams needing to buy the shares at approx ?10m per team.

Is the PRL worth ?130m+? Probably not, so you're likely right - at the point where things are about to go pear-shaped CVC can step in, take ownership for a minimum payout or zero and then re-distribute newly negotiated TV rights/Sponsorships across the two new divisions (if that happens).

[Shugs]

I personally think English rugby is on its last legs already. I'm still so sick about us going under that I've not watched much of the Prem, and once done you realise how low a profile it has and how easy it is to lose interest.

When I've dipped in now and again it's been utterly boring, and looking at the final table (and the games I dipped in to), you've got the masters of 'kick and chase' rugby - the EAs - finishing an easy top, and their apprentices at Sale and Tigers second and third. Even Borthwick is an advocate of the EA's style so we'll see that with England too. How does that attract new fans? Add in the laws around tackle height and number of red cards being inconsistently issued by refs and it's not an attractive proposition for fans live or on TV.

The EAs are still capable of fielding a decent second team against Bath in a league game because they've wrapped up the number one spot so early, and with the RFU rolling over to Baxter's pressure for a 10 team league, it's just going to be a closed shop borefest with Saracens winning most years. I imagine the 10 team competition won't have a salary cap and will end up like the Scottish Football Premiership, low on quality with two clubs fighting it out for the title and the same one winning every year, whilst everyone celebrates the achievement of the richest club only to get a rude awakening in European and International competition. And unlike football, Union doesn't rank as number one sport.

Maybe they should change the name from Union to Cabal (they would if Baxter told them!). Really sad times for such a great game.

Don?t disagree with any of that.