Why does a 10 team Premiership only work with a strong second division?

[Egret]

Genuine question.

I've seen the above statement made in many places but no resons as to why? Can anyone enlighten me?

[Neils]

Genuine question.

I've seen the above statement made in many places but no resons as to why? Can anyone enlighten me?

Because the EAs say so??

 

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Genuine question.

I've seen the above statement made in many places but no reasons as to why? Can anyone enlighten me?

Silly Season - that gap between the cup final and the first game of the new season.

When mainly older men, but sometimes women, stand up and make speeches using big words and sounding intelligent, based on self-evident phrases, who because of their education, wealth and connections, go unchallenged by the media.

It is, of course, all bollox.

The only thing that can make sport successful is the fans and supporters, turning up to events in numbers, paying  through the nose for the privilege, or willing to watch pay per view coverage.

The UK has a huge number of potential consumers of rugby at a quality level. But, they want 'their' team (brand) and will not accept substitutes. With ten remaining 'teams', when compared to the number of teams competing at the top level pre-professionalism, 95% of potential consumers are not willing to watch the 10 team league.

Disregard your customer at your own peril. The death of the PRL is now assured. It is just a question of when the beast stops twitching.

[InBetweenWasp]

Genuine question.

I've seen the above statement made in many places but no resons as to why? Can anyone enlighten me?

It's fair to say that there hasn't been much by the way of expansion from the RFU/PRL, but my own thoughts/reasons are:

It doesn't solve the financial sustainability issue that English Professional rugby has
Saracens, Bristol and Bath might be alright in this.  Saints too perhaps.  But the others are all on shaky ground; Sale have no meaningful income stream to continue to challenge without huge supplementation.  Chiefs are already openly struggling and having to sell assets to make ends meet as well as letting players go and seeing reduced crowds and competitiveness.  Quins have struggled to make a regular profit despite owning their stadium in prime rugby heartland, challenging at the top and selling out most home games.  Falcons are hanging on by a thread.  Tigers needed a ?13m injection via their biggest shareholder to stay afloat.  Gloucs seem to be well run (and are certainly well supported) but fewer games and the same squad costs will hurt them so they either choose to compete (unsustainably) or accept they'll be financially secure but uncompetitive.

A 10-Team closed shop doesn't have the same commercial viability/attractiveness
You've already seem BT seeking a rebate for fewer games.  A two-division structure with the jeopardy of relegation and the likes of Ealing, Jersey, Wasps, Irish etc... fighting for promotion could/would create compelling viewing.  Broadcasters could pick much more interesting games with better stories behind them.

Two divisions would help grow the number of professional teams and broaden the club fanbase
20 full-time teams (as a number plucked out of thin-air) provides an opportunity to grow the fanbase for the club game - combined with a reduced salary cap (thanks to reduced games meaning fewer players needed per squad).  Massie-Taylor has spoken about the need for Prem Teams to offer a 'Premium' experience.  But I don't personally think fans want to be rattling around in a half-empty 10k seater stadium with artificial entertainment.  They want an environment/experience where they feel connected to the club and it's players.  The Wasps squad were great at coming round the pitch after a game and meeting fans, or being available on the way in/out of the stadium.  It's those sorts of experiences rather than 'Win ?5k in our lucky seat draw' or 'Win Dominos Pizza for a year in our kicking competition at half-time' type experiences that fans come (and stick around) for.

Especially at some of the smaller, more intimate stadia you get a better feel for the size, power and speed of the players on show - It's a real differentiator for the casual fan.  My kids have been coming to games since they were quite literally weeks old, so have been completely indoctrinated. 

But my route to club rugby was much more typical (I think); I played No.8 at school, then would watch internationals, Dallaglio was a 'hero' growing up.  We had Irish, Quins and Wasps all pretty much equidistant to us and would often go to Madjedski to watch Irish v Falcons (to see Jonny) or Sale (Jason Robinson/Mark Cueto) etc... and go where the internationals were playing.  We only stuck with Wasps are going to 2x World Cup Finals and making a decision to watch more Club Rugby and only took a season ticket after going to a handful of games in the 08 season where we were in the Prem Final in the LOL/Johnson send-off.

Growing Rugby will be a long-term game that can't be shortcut by artificial prizes, sweepstakes or promotions.

[Sliminator]

You have to grow the size of the pie (revenue) rather than what has been happening recently where everyone seems to want a larger piece of the the small pie. Whether anyone of the powers that be will grasp that, well I won't hold my breath.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

You need at least the top 4 or 5 to be competitive so that they pose a threat to any team that has been relegated being able to bounce straight back up.

This will provide meaningful games at both ends of the PRL, increasing viewer and fan participation and that, it is hoped, will lead to bigger TV and sponsorship deals.

If the relegated team is going bounce straight back up and the promoted exam relegated straight back down you might as well not bother.

[InBetweenWasp]

You have to grow the size of the pie (revenue) rather than what has been happening recently where everyone seems to want a larger piece of the the small pie. Whether anyone of the powers that be will grasp that, well I won't hold my breath.

Exactly, which is where 10+x games per week is more attractive than 5x games per week for broadcasters to pick from and grow broadcasting deals from.  Broader reach means bigger/better sponsorship opportunities for the league as well.

What the teams really need to do is ditch PRL and the parasitic CVC.

[Shugs]

10 team leagues. 14 team leagues. Second tier. Etc etc. it?s actually far simpler than any of that. No league will survive if money out is consistently more than money in. Discount football - that is a desperate and freakish outlier. NWW is 100% correct. PRL is dead. It?s when rather than if. Whatever beast emerges following that may come calling for some brand names??..