Top 14 Final

[Rossm]

This is the Jack Willis that the RFU say can't play for England after the WC. Surely the experience gained at Toulouse would benefit England?

[Chunky24]

Jack doesn't even need boots anymore!

https://twitter.com/RupertCoxTV/status/1670480568688017410?t=_47Xar9HgMlSfi-VBV-Okw&s=19

[Bloke in North Dorset]

This is the Jack Willis that the RFU say can't play for England after the WC. Surely the experience gained at Toulouse would benefit England?

With the parlous state of the game in England who'd want to risk going through what he and many more have been through on the off chance you get selected for England?

[baldpaul101]

I would think the England management would love to be able to choose players who don't play in the prem, but thats the agreement they are stuck with.
The agreement has blatantly failed to keep the best players playing in England so I don't expect it to continue for long.

Massive congrats to Jack though, to be one of the best players in one of the best teams in Europe is pretty special.

One slight moan on the write up linked above, they seem to suggest he's improved massively since going to France. He looked the same Jack Wasps fans have been watching for the last few years to me.....

[backdoc]

Agree Baldpaul101.
He is a bit stronger in the contact and a bit slower than he was 4-5 years ago. Otherwise the same player.

Lazy journalism - like Saracens made Billy V into an International

[baldpaul101]

Lazy journalism - like Saracens made Billy V into an International

Wait for them to do the same with Tom Willis next season!

[Mellie]

The final was a great game of rugby. Huge intensity, plenty of drama, superb skill levels, massive defence, not much kick tennis, no scrums until 25 minutes in and well refereed, with no TMO referrals or cards.

Ntmack didn't play that well but his moment of magic at the end won the game. Jack was immense throughout and Thibaud Flament made a huge difference when he came on.

Best bit for me was when Toulouse were celebrating, seeing Jack and Thibaud embracing and having a chat together. I was so proud thinking those 2 are both graduates of the Wasps academy.

[jamestaylor002]

Lazy journalism - like Saracens made Billy V into an International

Wait for them to do the same with Tom Willis next season!

Lazy - yes. But being cynical about England/RFU/Prem Rugby, they'll be half right because he'll be wearing the correct club badge next season 

[baldpaul101]

It was nice to watch a game where I really cared who won.
Unlike many others on here I have been watching prem games but I didn't really care who won, so its nice to be reminded what its like to have an emotional investment in one team beating the other.

As Mellie mentioned, the game flowed so much better without endless TMO referrals. There were one or two things I thought probably should have been checked, but without endless TV replays of incidents you don't have the chance to start thinking things are getting missed. You just know that a game like that in England would have had a couple of cards & endless ref/TMO chats. If they can do it France why not in England?

[Rossm]

It was nice to watch a game where I really cared who won.
Unlike many others on here I have been watching prem games but I didn't really care who won, so its nice to be reminded what its like to have an emotional investment in one team beating the other.

As Mellie mentioned, the game flowed so much better without endless TMO referrals. There were one or two things I thought probably should have been checked, but without endless TV replays of incidents you don't have the chance to start thinking things are getting missed. You just know that a game like that in England would have had a couple of cards & endless ref/TMO chats. If they can do it France why not in England?

Maybe because our officials take their position too seriously. Very few of them have a real feel for the game.

[Lwasp]

You just know that a game like that in England would have had a couple of cards & endless ref/TMO chats. If they can do it France why not in England?

If that game would have generated a couple of cards then you are implying there were infringements at least serious enough to warrant yellows? But only if the ref was alerted to them by the TMO? What is it you are arguing for, that the laws of the game be totally abandoned in favour of uninterrupted play?

Why is it a ref that blows up for infringements has "no feel for the game", but a ref that doesn't penalise the opposition for constant offsides, flying in at the ruck etc etc clearly has a conscious bias against us?

[baldpaul101]

If that game would have generated a couple of cards then you are implying there were infringements at least serious enough to warrant yellows? But only if the ref was alerted to them by the TMO? What is it you are arguing for, that the laws of the game be totally abandoned in favour of uninterrupted play?

I am in favour of a sensible interpretation of the laws. Referees in England have been told to target specific offences over others. What this has meant is a, IMO, ridiculous proliferation of cards for offences that sometimes didn't even warrant a penalty. Much of the time the referees have had those incidents advised to them by the TMO.

From the few Top 14 games I have watched the referees seem to allow the game to flow much more freely. Are there offences being missed, yes probably, but they are equally missed in England if they are not on the list of things the referees have been told to crack down on.

Why is it a ref that blows up for infringements has "no feel for the game", but a ref that doesn't penalise the opposition for constant offsides, flying in at the ruck etc etc clearly has a conscious bias against us?

I have not said either of those things. Refereeing is a tricky job, I've tried it & hated it! We have some very good refs in England, as there are in France. Right now however, the French have a better balance between letting the game flow & punishing offences, this has only come from those referees being instructed on how to run the games.

[Mellie]

From watching the game it was obvious there was dialogue between TMO and ref throughout. What was different was the TMO wasn't jumping in all the time, particularly asking to forensically disect the most minor of incidents. I'm sure if anything contentious that could have had a major impact occurred a review would have been called.

There is a balance required between letting the game flow with the possibility of the odd minor error of no consequence as opposed to trying to get everything 100% correct by the officials.

Another reason I think helped the game flow was the skill levels of the players involved and their desire to play rugby.