Defence

[mike909]

Thanks for the stats

My gut feel was close to that. When commenting on Wasps on the Guardian, I did suggest that our defence was pressured by the changes in personnel, but that too often looked like some of the team had been introduced on the coach....

For me, the Leinster game was the first for a while where I felt the defence was coordinated, if outflanked at times, by a much better team. And that was the difference. We seemed to be conceding poor tries too often prior to that.

Now, I fully accept that if we were in a better place, attack-wise, then the defence would be less pressured, but it does look like a mild coaching deficit if prep is not up to scratch?

Any thoughts?

[SML]

My feeling is that the coaching group has not yet gelled and that players don't fully grasp what is expected of them.  The game is so structured these days that this matters.

Adding to that, some important players have moved on, who would have been influential on and off the field.  New players are trying hard but are not quite being able to produce a joined-up game (yet).  The absence of Launch and Gopps has hurt in terms of on-field organisation.  Daly would have been expected to fill that gap, but it hasn't happened for whatever reason.

[Rossm]

Thanks for the stats

My gut feel was close to that. When commenting on Wasps on the Guardian, I did suggest that our defence was pressured by the changes in personnel, but that too often looked like some of the team had been introduced on the coach....

For me, the Leinster game was the first for a while where I felt the defence was coordinated, if outflanked at times, by a much better team. And that was the difference. We seemed to be conceding poor tries too often prior to that. More and fresh stickum perhaps?

Now, I fully accept that if we were in a better place, attack-wise, then the defence would be less pressured, but it does look like a mild coaching deficit if prep is not up to scratch?

Any thoughts?

The most frustrating part of the Leinster game for me was the dropping of the ball several times when we were very close to scoring. I think it happened at least three times and I genuinely believe we would have put more tries on them if we had only held onto the ball and I don't mean turnovers here.

[jamestaylor002]

Thanks for the stats

My gut feel was close to that. When commenting on Wasps on the Guardian, I did suggest that our defence was pressured by the changes in personnel, but that too often looked like some of the team had been introduced on the coach....

For me, the Leinster game was the first for a while where I felt the defence was coordinated, if outflanked at times, by a much better team. And that was the difference. We seemed to be conceding poor tries too often prior to that. More and fresh stickum perhaps?

Now, I fully accept that if we were in a better place, attack-wise, then the defence would be less pressured, but it does look like a mild coaching deficit if prep is not up to scratch?

Any thoughts?

The most frustrating part of the Leinster game for me was the dropping of the ball several times when we were very close to scoring. I think it happened at least three times and I genuinely believe we would have put more tries on them if we had only held onto the ball and I don't mean turnovers here.

Completely agree Ross. This is what I found most frustrating about the game.

[mike909]

The most frustrating part of the Leinster game for me was the dropping of the ball several times when we were very close to scoring. I think it happened at least three times and I genuinely believe we would have put more tries on them if we had only held onto the ball and I don't mean turnovers here.

Well, that did have me wanting to throw things at the screen....but I felt that was probably linked to trying too hard/confidence issues.

I suppose for me, the key thing is not knowing what to expect next. Some good games through the 6Ns is not out of the question, and that could allow us to push on, the opposite is also possible!

[Raggs]

I do believe our defence should be better btw, but at the same time, any new defence coach is going to struggle, and we've had previously well respected defence coaches, seemingly fail (Brad Davis and Phil Blake), so I'm not going to say Costello is doing an awful job of something he wasn't hired to do.

I'd also rather take our time and get the right guy, than someone who's currently coaching at Midlands 2.

[coddy]

Its clear we are a short of at least one experienced coach but one other reason we are less effective at defence this season could be that we no longer have James Haskell in the pack, I'd swap Shields for him no problem and he had his faults but there's no arguing he was a tireless defender, vocal and experienced.

[Hymenoptera]

Its clear we are a short of at least one experienced coach but one other reason we are less effective at defence this season could be that we no longer have James Haskell in the pack, I'd swap Shields for him no problem and he had his faults but there's no arguing he was a tireless defender, vocal and experienced.

But he was always broken and has been broken all season for Saints, so in that regard offers nothing.

I'd also argue Shields does as much in terms of workrate.

[BG]

I think Hask is due to play in their next game but Saints fans can't be that happy about the return on investment from signing him.

He was obviously a stalwart for Wasps and also did a job for Eng, his golden period probable being the 18 months either side of the Australian tour. His performance in the last season for us dropped off to a such a extent that most pundits/fans agreed Jack Willis should be picked ahead of him.

At this moment in time I think Shields offers more than Hask at this moment in time.. but how would they compare when both are/were in their mid to late 20's.

Hask's talents were a bit limited but at the moment Shields hasn't really showed any ball handling skills/offloads either.

Back to the defence question - my feeling is that its related to the breakdown. Other than YY we don't really have anyone that jackals or at the very least players that are able to slow the opposition's ball down or at the very least be a nuisance. This leads to the opposition winning quick recycled ball ruck after ruck which, after a few phases, will lead to tiredness and players out of position.

[jamestaylor002]

I think Hask is due to play in their next game but Saints fans can't be that happy about the return on investment from signing him.

He was obviously a stalwart for Wasps and also did a job for Eng, his golden period probable being the 18 months either side of the Australian tour. His performance in the last season for us dropped off to a such a extent that most pundits/fans agreed Jack Willis should be picked ahead of him.

At this moment in time I think Shields offers more than Hask at this moment in time.. but how would they compare when both are/were in their mid to late 20's.

Hask's talents were a bit limited but at the moment Shields hasn't really showed any ball handling skills/offloads either.

Back to the defence question - my feeling is that its related to the breakdown. Other than YY we don't really have anyone that jackals or at the very least players that are able to slow the opposition's ball down or at the very least be a nuisance. This leads to the opposition winning quick recycled ball ruck after ruck which, after a few phases, will lead to tiredness and players out of position.

Does Jack Willis play 6 or 7?

EDIT: The reason I ask is whether there is potential to see both JW and YY on the pitch at the same time?

[BG]

Primarily he's a blindside but has played 8 earlier in his career. Given how effective over the ball his is he quite probably could get away with filling in at 7  but I suspect his natural on pitch instinct lends itself to being a 6 (he's a decent ball carrier as well) .

[jamestaylor002]

Primarily he's a blindside but has played 8 earlier in his career. Given how effective over the ball his is he quite probably could get away with filling in at 7  but I suspect his natural on pitch instinct lends itself to being a 6 (he's a decent ball carrier as well) .

So it couldn't really be a bad thing if we had both of them on the field at the same time. Surely we'd have a couple of operators in that area to increase our chances of a turnover/competitiveness at the breakdown?

[coddy]

Its clear we are a short of at least one experienced coach but one other reason we are less effective at defence this season could be that we no longer have James Haskell in the pack, I'd swap Shields for him no problem and he had his faults but there's no arguing he was a tireless defender, vocal and experienced.

But he was always broken and has been broken all season for Saints, so in that regard offers nothing.

I've just read my original post back, due to your "forthright" reply and realised I said I would swap Shields for Haskell when I should of said wouldn't.

I'd also argue Shields does as much in terms of workrate.