The other site

[wasps]

For me, what bothers me most over there is that there are some posters who I don't think have ever said anything positive about the club - even when we were playing well.

Yes, things are poor at the moment, but I'd pay more attention to a few of the guys of they'd ever been happy before, during or after a game.


In fact, and this will sound like a throw away comment but I think it's true, I think there are some posters who have just never enjoyed watching Wasps.... Ever.
And that's a shame

[NellyWellyWaspy]

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my defence of alternative opinion and suggest that DW is best avoided for a day or two!

In their defence (and I include myself in that), 15 defeats in 22 games does not make good reading. The fact that so many of those games have been lost by common causes - missed tackles, poor handling skills, try scoring opportunities butchered etc. - and the lack of any credible messages coming from management as to why, it is very easy to understand the frustration of our supporters.

It is not rocket science. It is all about addressing the fundamentals, some of which IMHO, have been a common theme for a number of years.

Leadership is so important, on and off the pitch. Listen to Rob Baxter and Mark McCall. They have visions and structures in place to deliver them. We, sadly, are light years away.

Morning John. At the game yesterday I met some Waspies from Hampton Magna. Only afterwards did I think, were those the same fans that John gets a lift with ... ? Probably not.

If you watch Andy Titterrell's post-match video you might (as I did) conclude he was not at the same game as I was. But, I suspect his eye was on the forwards in their scrum/maul/lineout roll.

I doubt strongly that Dai is the problem. Despite us being told he would be 'involved' in coaching, I suspect that he doesn't have that much time to do that, and tactics and the general direction of coaching must be down to someone else.

If I watch the U18 team, for whom getting to training sessions must be hard due to their widespread locations and school commitments, and where I see a well drilled team and cohesive (very Wasp-like) style of play, I must conclude that they are being coached very well. At the match on Saturday, that team appeared to be led by Jon Pendlebury.

Dai is, nominally in charge of both teams (U18 and first team). One does well, the other does not. So one must look under Dai.

If we accept the premise that the coaching team influence the team play (and the recent evidence from Man Utd is that is so), then it is there that we must look. We have three coaches for forwards, backs and defense. Based on what I have seen over the last few years and this year, the forwards seem generally to play well. They did on Sunday. But, the outfield defense was slow, disjointed, poorly organised and lacking coordination. The backs were even worse, with just Josh standing up and doing the job.

That suggests to me that Lee Blackett and Ian Costello are out of their depth. Not so for Andy Titterrell. I truly hope that Dai has sorted out replacements for both of them, plus a real head coach, where Dai can become a true DoR. In the meantime, the pain will continue for this season.

[BG]

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my defence of alternative opinion and suggest that DW is best avoided for a day or two!

In their defence (and I include myself in that), 15 defeats in 22 games does not make good reading. The fact that so many of those games have been lost by common causes - missed tackles, poor handling skills, try scoring opportunities butchered etc. - and the lack of any credible messages coming from management as to why, it is very easy to understand the frustration of our supporters.

It is not rocket science. It is all about addressing the fundamentals, some of which IMHO, have been a common theme for a number of years.

Leadership is so important, on and off the pitch. Listen to Rob Baxter and Mark McCall. They have visions and structures in place to deliver them. We, sadly, are light years away.

Thanks for bring this discussion over John.. 

[Gaz]

It's a valid discussion to be had, I'm not saying it isn't.

It's just that according to some Daly is a scab and should be discarded to the a team  immediately, Costello is a blithering idiot and is to blame for everything, Dai is a complacent overseer that is happy to accept where we are and is not trying to fix it, and any player that doesn't play like Cips/WLR/Beale, or has a brief dip in form should be fired on the spot. The facilities and culture are apparently rotten and there is mass exodus of players ... Etc, etc.

I doubt some pushing these 'facts' are fans sometimes. Surely support means support?

[BG]

I was being sarcastic for thanking John for bringing this over

I've always wondered how much day to day coaching Dai does. I've seen him on video clips on the training ground but I think that was pre-season. My gut feeling is that he has very little to do with the day to day training. Hs position is as a manger of coaches, but don't forget he meets with press twice a week, he probably has to liaise with the board and Derek. He also has to be a link between the admin team to keep tabs on ongoing salary cap calculations, EPS, EQP.

Before various injuries I think we had 2 sets of front 5 that couple compete with any team in the premiership which was an upgrade o nthe pack comapred to some previous recent seasons.

Where we have fallen flat on our faces is in the backs. Some seem to be passed their best and some simply aren't performing.

None of us now what is happening in terms of behind the scenes coaching, but like players, coaches can become stale and in a rut if stuck at the same places for years. Looks how Cockerill has re-invented in a new club/envirornment.

My thinking is we need some new blood within the coaching staff to replace Blackett, Titterall. Some coaches who have experienced rugby in different leagues preferably.

I'm just hoping that once a few key injured players come back we begin to click again

[Neils]

It's a valid discussion to be had, I'm not saying it isn't.

It's just that according to some Daly is a scab and should be discarded to the a team  immediately, Costello is a blithering idiot and is to blame for everything, Dai is a complacent overseer that is happy to accept where we are and is not trying to fix it, and any player that doesn't play like Cips/WLR/Beale, or has a brief dip in form should be fired on the spot. The facilities and culture are apparently rotten and there is mass exodus of players ... Etc, etc.

I doubt some pushing these 'facts' are fans sometimes. Surely support means support?

I don't think Daly is a "scab" as you say BUT I certainly don't think the way he was playing before joining his sarries pals warranted him being picked. When someone falls off any semblance of proper tackling and pulls out of catching high balls he needs to be set aside. For how long depends on his head.
Interestingly I spent Saturday with a Platinum Sarries friend who said that he did not want to see Daly in their team. He suggested that they had better players coming up and thought it would upset their carefully worked out progression.

[wasps]

Is Daly's contract clause really that different to all the 2+1 contracts that you see all the time?

It ultimately means that either the club or the player wants an option to get out of the contract early if it suits them.

Elliot's clause is for something that he, and others at the time, felt they were promised which hasn't been delivered.
There's obviously lots of mitigating factors as to why it hasn't happened, but I just don't see why it's such a huge deal.

I don't want him to go, but I don't begrudge him doing what he thinks it's right for his career, personal life (or wallet)

[Neils]

No knowledge about any clause or even if there is one but the Secretary of Broadstreet has quite vociferously defended their facilities in TRP this week stating they were on a par if not better than Old Albanians (Sarries) and Clifton (Bristol). This suggests personal knowledge of these grounds. He was commenting on Haskell's mouthing off.

[Rossm]

It's not what is said it's how it's said that counts. I wasn't joking (well not much) when I suggested changing the site name to Apoplectic Wasps. That's how it comes across.

I watched yesterday's game simply because there was not much else to do. For us it was a totally dead rubber. For Wuss, they were playing for a home quarter/semi final in a competition that is so poorly regarded that it doesn't even have a sponsor's name attached to it. I was not at all surprised by the result.

15 defeats in 22 games does not make good reading. Emotions aside and despite this, we are still in sixth place in the Prem and we are 5 points away from 3rd. We have a block of 4 games coming up: away to Briz, home to Sale, away to Tigs and home to Budgies. I would hope to win the home games and get something from the aways.

Lastly: I never like to single out individual players but Watson had IMO the worst case of white line fever I think I have ever seen. Pure selfishness. Is Dai at fault here? Costello? Nick Eastwood (one or two seem to think he is the new bogey man)? Had he not butchered that try, I think the game could have turned out differently.

[InBetweenWasp]

Is Daly's contract clause really that different to all the 2+1 contracts that you see all the time?

It ultimately means that either the club or the player wants an option to get out of the contract early if it suits them.

Elliot's clause is for something that he, and others at the time, felt they were promised which hasn't been delivered.
There's obviously lots of mitigating factors as to why it hasn't happened, but I just don't see why it's such a huge deal.

I don't want him to go, but I don't begrudge him doing what he thinks it's right for his career, personal life (or wallet)

+1.  It’s nice to see some reasoned responses on this.  Gutted to see him go, but I don’t think he ‘owes’ Wasps and vice versa.  Understand that promises have potentially been made and perhaps not fulfilled.  I’m sure the situation is far more complex than some of the posters on DW give it credit for and i’d be happy to wager that it’s not Daly simply being a petulant prima donna demanding he be released from his contract, throwing his toys out the pram and ‘downing tools’ for Wasps so that he can go and play for Sarries who can only possibly be signing him because they’re cheating (again, i’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be the major motivator for him going).

Gets pretty dull that virtually any thread over there descends into a cesspit of negativity with the recurring themes of ‘Daly doesn’t give a sh*t’, ‘Dai is rubbish’, ‘Sarries are cheats’ or ‘It’s EJs fault’

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I think this weekend should give us a bit of perspective on the current situation with Wasps.

For some time now people have been slating Eddie Jones and England.  The constant losses and poor performances were a clear sign something was deeply wrong in the set-up. 

And then we stuffed Ireland.

The team that had struggled to click did so and they played realy well.

That is exactly where we are with Wasps right now.  Our team is full of talent, yet is not clicking.  Sooner or later they will and we will be something amazing to watch.  I'd rather it happened sooner than later, but I'm happy to continue to offer my support and loyalty to the team until it happens.

[Rossm]

Very sensible, VV.

[Tervueren]

Now that earlier misunderstandings have been rectified and we know that EJ is not an idiot who does not understand rugby and just breaks players, and actually (since Saturday and at least up until next weekend) a tactical genius and master of all that can be surveyed, perhaps a campaign to poach him?

[Raggs]

I'm sure we'll lose a game soon enough, and he'll be back to being an idiot.

I'm sure there's a fair few that won't credit him at all anyway, and simply place all credit with the players and John Mitchell.

[Gaz]

It's a valid discussion to be had, I'm not saying it isn't.

It's just that according to some Daly is a scab and should be discarded to the a team  immediately, Costello is a blithering idiot and is to blame for everything, Dai is a complacent overseer that is happy to accept where we are and is not trying to fix it, and any player that doesn't play like Cips/WLR/Beale, or has a brief dip in form should be fired on the spot. The facilities and culture are apparently rotten and there is mass exodus of players ... Etc, etc.

I doubt some pushing these 'facts' are fans sometimes. Surely support means support?

I don't think Daly is a "scab" as you say BUT I certainly don't think the way he was playing before joining his sarries pals warranted him being picked. When someone falls off any semblance of proper tackling and pulls out of catching high balls he needs to be set aside. For how long depends on his head.
Interestingly I spent Saturday with a Platinum Sarries friend who said that he did not want to see Daly in their team. He suggested that they had better players coming up and thought it would upset their carefully worked out progression.

I'm all for selecting or dropping players based on form but some want him hung, drawn and quartered in public because he has the temerity to break some abstract and ideological concept of loyalty.

He's been great for us for years, if he sees his future elsewhere then I will be disappointed but I wish him well, except against us of course.