Sarries and the Cap

[BG]

Which club has the 2nd highest players n the Eng squad.. well. .the possible WC Squad.. is it us, Tiggers or Chiefs perhaps?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

It could be us, but we're offloading players left right and centre as they are offered more than we can match. I would be very susprised indeed if we are over the cap.

[BG]

It could be us, but we're offloading players left right and centre as they are offered more than we can match. I would be very susprised indeed if we are over the cap.

The article doesn't say what the vote was actually for. I'm guessing it was for temporary dispensation to add more temporary players to their squad during the WC? I doubt it was a vote to increase the £7m ceiling?

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Good point.

[RBB]

It could be us, but we're offloading players left right and centre as they are offered more than we can match. I would be very susprised indeed if we are over the cap.

The article doesn't say what the vote was actually for. I'm guessing it was for temporary dispensation to add more temporary players to their squad during the WC? I doubt it was a vote to increase the £7m ceiling?

If that was the case, I still have zero sympathy with them. They have chosen to plough the furrow they are in (fair or foul). Now they are potentially whinging that 'buying' and 'looking after' lots of top talent means they are disadvantaged. I hope this really isn't the case, as that shows massive disrespect to their GP peers, and the system as a whole. It is almost like saying to the establishment, we have to win and you need to let us.....

[jamestaylor002]

https://www.saracens.com/news-article/a-message-from-nigel-wray

FWIW

[Lwasp]

Interesting piece from Wray. The examples he uses do look like genuine entrepreneurial business ventures. Although there does have to be a limit to the number of ex-player companies that can become suppliers to Allianz Park. What is the significance of mentioning Alex Sanderson's mum's pudding biz???

The companies that were mentioned In the Daily Mail article, however, do not look anything like these businesses. Those companies make nothing and do nothing but own property. That is not career planning for a life after rugby. Hopefully this story does not die down and go away!

[westwaleswasp]

I would like him to comment on the article regarding his co-investors being worried about the spirit of the cap and pulling out.

[MattWasp]

From the Wray statement: ‘Investment is not salary.’ ...

It seems we’re going to need an ‘investment cap’  if the Prem is going to retain any credibility as a fair contest

[Marlow Nick]

Some Sarries fans defend this saying other clubs should follow Sarries' great example of supporting players' post rugby careers. They conveniently fail to explain how other clubs could afford to copy this model when it is so obviously more than just some free advice and requires significant additional funding

[Vespula Vulgaris]

For me this is pretty simple.

Has Wray "invested" with players from other clubs?

If not then it is a clear financial bonus for players at Saracens. You only get it by signing for them, and so therefore it falls under the cap.

[RBB]

For me this is pretty simple.

Has Wray "invested" with players.from other clubs?

If not then it is a clear financial.bonus for players at Saracens. You only get it by signing for them, and so therefore it falls under the cap.

Great point, Wray has almost tripped himself up here, he is essentially saying that they 'invest' as part of the whole package, to me that is an enticement and tips a decision the way of Saracens. So if a player is offered an increment elsewhere and if Wray says 'I'll buy you a townhouse in Ealing, if you sign for Saracens', then Wray wins. However, my fear is the issue will be swept under the carpet again.

[Marlow Nick]

Last time Sarries were found to have cheated interpreted the rules differently rather than being punished they were given what they wanted - new rules and a bigger cap that not every club could afford. My bet is that history will repeat itself and following an investigation and some behind the scenes legal threats and bullying discussions the rules will be clarified to state that what Sarries are doing is allowed and Sarries will again have an option that not all clubs can afford to copy.

[Dgwasp]

Whilst it is a well articulated piece by Mr Wray, the investments he makes do not appear to be available to players at other clubs and are therefore a financial incentive only offered if players join Sarries.   It may well be allowed within the written laws however is against the point, and in complete disregard, of the salary cap.  They appear to be operating on a completely different financial level and in my view have only been a dominant force because of this.  I personally wouldn't field anywhere like a strong side for Sarries away games because I don't value the competition it offers, I would for home games only because Wasps fans want to see their top players.

As for "bending" the cap during the WC that is a dangerous move that would likely lead to opening the idea for 6N periods too.  This is something which should be considered as part of the whole squad management responsibilities and is just bad luck if it hasn't been managed very well.  Wasps will be hit all the same as other clubs.

[MattWasp]

It may well be allowed within the written laws however is against the point
 :
I personally wouldn't field anywhere like a strong side for Sarries away games because I don't value the competition it offers

I think you are being kind to the Prem there.  Regulation of transactions with connected parties is entirely possible, and indeed explicitly addressed in the salary cap.  It does require the regulator to give two hoots, though.

I suspect many will share your views on games involving Sarries.  Premiership will have an almighty problem if Saracens get to the final.