Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Shugs on February 13, 2021, 03:54:12 PM
-
What a nightmare. Feel so sorry for him. Looks a bad one.
-
Let's hope he can recover.
-
That looks terrible.
-
If it is the same knee, it is probably career ending.
-
Not sure if it's the same one or not.
-
If it is the same knee, it is probably career ending.
I bow to your knowledge but I think you are right. His face as he left said it all.
-
No words. My heart goes out to him. I hope it isn't career ending.
-
I think that's his left ankle?
-
That looked horrific. He's my favourite player and he's already been through a lot. God damn awful. Very sad.
-
He seemed to be clutching the knee when he went down. Feel so sorry for him hope he can recover.
-
Heart breaking. Hope the lad comes through.
-
If it is the same knee, it is probably career ending.
it was his right knee against Saracens.....
-
Absolutely gutted for Jack.
His injury in 2018 was to his right knee (several ligaments, including a rupture of the ACL). He was out for 9 months.
Looking at the video replay it looked like his left knee this time.
-
Bobby saying it was the other one. Poor bugger knowing what he may have to go through.
-
If it is the same knee, it is probably career ending.
it was his right knee against Saracens.....
As small mercies go, I will take that. Andy Williams is a great surgeon.
-
did not see the incident but commentators saying illegal,player off feet but no penalty, what happened.
-
If it is the same knee, it is probably career ending.
it was his right knee against Saracens.....
As small mercies go, I will take that. Andy Williams is a great surgeon.
I must admit I thought when I saw it that it was at least season finished. I was unaware which knee that he injured previously. I'm not that bothered about England, but jack had a shot at the Lions, which is a great shame for the lad.
-
Absolutely heart broken for him. Please God he will recover soon tho' it looks like a long hard road ahead; I hope I am very very wrong. Keep strong Jack.
-
Player was off feet but that is no longer illegal. It was what they're calling a crocodile roll. It was horrible could hear him scream on TV. I just hope he recovers and the boys at wasps ger behind him and really help him through it.
-
Crocodile roll at the breakdown. Definitely left knee. Got stuck underneath him and twisted. Looks like ACL/ligaments. Hoping it isn't.
-
This precisely why I keep banging on about the “clear out” being completely illegal- it was only a matter of time before someone was seriously injured and now it’s happened to Jack. The IRB laws are crystal clear, players joining the breakdown must first stay on their feet, they must join behind or alongside the hind-most player and must bind on. The Italian player went in at the side, went straight off his feet and made zero attempt to bind on to anyone. Take your pick, totally illegal but as the clear out has become such an accepted part of the game it’s not even penalised never mind the red or yellow card it deserved. Ludicrous. What happened to safety, equity, laws? Really feel for Jack, hope he makes a full recovery but I’m fuming
-
This precisely why I keep banging on about the “clear out” being completely illegal- it was only a matter of time before someone was seriously injured and now it’s happened to Jack. The IRB laws are crystal clear, players joining the breakdown must first stay on their feet, they must join behind or alongside the hind-most player and must bind on. The Italian player went in at the side, went straight off his feet and made zero attempt to bind on to anyone. Take your pick, totally illegal but as the clear out has become such an accepted part of the game it’s not even penalised never mind the red or yellow card it deserved. Ludicrous. What happened to safety, equity, laws? Really feel for Jack, hope he makes a full recovery but I’m fuming
Interestingly Ben Ryan who has been banging on about it being outlawed completely for ages has just said on Twatter that the IRB are OK with it being reffed that way. Criminal if so.
-
This precisely why I keep banging on about the “clear out” being completely illegal- it was only a matter of time before someone was seriously injured and now it’s happened to Jack. The IRB laws are crystal clear, players joining the breakdown must first stay on their feet, they must join behind or alongside the hind-most player and must bind on. The Italian player went in at the side, went straight off his feet and made zero attempt to bind on to anyone. Take your pick, totally illegal but as the clear out has become such an accepted part of the game it’s not even penalised never mind the red or yellow card it deserved. Ludicrous. What happened to safety, equity, laws? Really feel for Jack, hope he makes a full recovery but I’m fuming
Interestingly Ben Ryan who has been banging on about it being outlawed completely for ages has just said on Twatter that the IRB are OK with it being reffed that way. Criminal if so.
If the IRB are ok with this then they are also responsible for Jacks injury and should collectively hang their heads in shame. The crocodile roll needs outlawing as soon as possible. I feel so sorry for Jack.
-
The breakdown is a mess and "clearing out" is in part a result of a failure to officiate to the Laws.
If refs (and its more of a problem in the NH imo) were consistent in calling ruck, then either a player is first to the tackle and gets hands on ball or it's a ruck and then Law 15 applies in terms of joining a ruck.
What we have at the moment too often is that the team in possession feel the need to "clear out" because otherwise they will lose a ball, where that ball is being played using hands within a ruck.
There is no room in the Laws for a "contest for the ball" because the defender is still on their feet but has not got hands on ball. The situation looks to me like one that needs clear an consistent application of Laws or else such challenges will be incentivised to avoid losing ball.
I'm not going to suggest who if anyone was at fault - but you can see the same in virtually any Prem game. If I am defending, and am not first to the tackle and get hands on ball, then I have no rights to use my hands as its a ruck as soon as an opponent arrives. As a colleague of the tackled player, I ought not to need to "clear out" as I can either tackle player with ball or I bind onto the players who form a ruck
Prob not a brilliant explanation - but it's been a danger for ages (clearing out) and seems a function (at least in part) of inconsistent breakdown officiating.
-
This precisely why I keep banging on about the “clear out” being completely illegal- it was only a matter of time before someone was seriously injured and now it’s happened to Jack. The IRB laws are crystal clear, players joining the breakdown must first stay on their feet, they must join behind or alongside the hind-most player and must bind on. The Italian player went in at the side, went straight off his feet and made zero attempt to bind on to anyone. Take your pick, totally illegal but as the clear out has become such an accepted part of the game it’s not even penalised never mind the red or yellow card it deserved. Ludicrous. What happened to safety, equity, laws? Really feel for Jack, hope he makes a full recovery but I’m fuming
Interestingly Ben Ryan who has been banging on about it being outlawed completely for ages has just said on Twatter that the IRB are OK with it being reffed that way. Criminal if so.
If this doesn’t make them review their decision they might be on the wrong end of a player welfare legal case.
-
I feel very sorry for Jack and hope it’s not as serious as it looked.
He was having a blinder too.
-
Gutted for him, worked so hard to get back, breaking into England’s very set backrow, which was established in his absence with injury last time - hope everyone gets round him for his rehab again as I’m sure it’ll be a lonely place anyway but covid restrictions could well make it worse.
Breakdown needs to be looked at in line with what Ben Ryan has been talking about but I don’t think there’s any blame on the Italy player here, just so very unfortunate for Jack and the way the Italy guy we’ll.
Heartbroken for Jack
-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9257199/Horror-Jack-Willis-injury-sees-ex-England-international-Ugo-Monye-call-ban-crocodile-roll.html
-
Early update is that he will have a scan tomorrow. Apparently walking with the aid of crutches but Eddie Jones saying "it doesn't look good". Just hoping it's less serious somehow.
-
It seems out of the season. Wait for next week.
-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9257199/Horror-Jack-Willis-injury-sees-ex-England-international-Ugo-Monye-call-ban-crocodile-roll.html
100%, but it ought not to be a problem....as officiating to the Laws means clarity and no "clear outs" and Law 15 provides for binding into a ruck or it's a tackle of a man with possession of the ball.
The "roll" is a function of problems with enforcing how the Laws describe how the breakdown is played.
-
Some reporting that it's the same leg as last time
-
Some reporting that it's the same leg as last time
Hope the hell not.
-
Some reporting that it's the same leg as last time
Bobby Bridge in cov telegraph seemed to indicate it was the left knee and Jack had previously done his right one in.
-
If Jack is back for the start of next season fit and healthy then thats a result.
-
You have to feel for the lad, that's terrible.
Wishing him the fullest of recoveries.
-
Definitely the other knee. Last report from HQ was that he left walking with the aid of crutches. Obviously will get a scan once bruising has subsided. Generally means that we will know more on Tuesday.
Gutted for Jack.
-
just watched the video and to me it looks like the Italian player comes in from the side of the ruck and not just just marginally, at about 90 degrees, I can't understand what the ref. is looking at, he was right next to the incident and yet he restarted with a scrum which implies no fault, the same with the O F no head contact, when it was obvious to everyone watching, there was.
I don't like knocking refs. but I'm lost for words on this one.
-
just watched the video and to me it looks like the Italian player comes in from the side of the ruck and not just just marginally, at about 90 degrees, I can't understand what the ref. is looking at, he was right next to the incident and yet he restarted with a scrum which implies no fault, the same with the O F no head contact, when it was obvious to everyone watching, there was.
The side entry should of been penalised as should of the Italian holding on. Referees seem to be becoming lazy once more around the ruck, and not whistling quick enough when a player is holding on, this delay may well be a contributory factor in Jacks injury as the Italian is still playing when the whistle should already of gone.
However the fault here is two fold. The first is that the Italian player would of felt jacks leg under him and yet he continued to roll him...now i can believe that he had no intention to injure him, however equally he had no intention of safety. The second fault is that we let this type of tackle enter our game! We lost Sam Jones because Eddie brought in Judo trainers to teach us just this. However this does not fall at Eddies door on this occasion, but squarely on the law makers the IRB. This is a tackle that should of been outlawed years ago and many players are now paying the price for their lack of action.
-
Why there was outpouring of emotion for stricken England ace
Bobby Bridge couldn't sleep.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/jack-willis-england-injury-rugby-19835448 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/jack-willis-england-injury-rugby-19835448)
-
Yes - huge outpouring of support for Jack on social media.
Lots of people have been recognising a serious injury to a very nice bloke.
Best wishes Jack.
-
Lee just been told not ACL but about as bad as it gets without ACL.
-
Update from Lee after the Wuss game. Apparently he hasn't done his ACL but has done "everything else". I'm seeing that as marginally positive. ACL would have definitely meant surgery. Not sure if this does or not.
-
Is that not an Alex Rieder type of injury.
-
Update from Lee after the Wuss game. Apparently he hasn't done his ACL but has done "everything else". I'm seeing that as marginally positive. ACL would have definitely meant surgery. Not sure if this does or not.
Any thoughts backdoc?
-
Jack Willis gains ACL boost but set for 'long time out'
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/jack-willis-wasps-injury-update-19837494#ICID=Android_CoventryTelegraphNewsApp_AppShare
-
Sounds a bit similar as a layman to Reiders - "The injuries he suffered to his left knee were like nothing the specialists or the Wasps physio team had seen before on a rugby field. In dislocating his knee, Rieder's lateral corner was torn, the hamstring tendon was torn, the popliteus muscle was torn."
Hope not
-
Don’t know how or why NZ press are more optimistic about No damage to ligaments.
-
"England flanker Jack Willis facing long lay-off after injury against Italy | Six Nations 2021 | The Guardian" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/14/england-flanker-jack-willis-facing-long-lay-off-after-injury-six-nations-italy
A good summary of points
-
Forgive me for sounding like a broken record but the number of pundits and coaches calling for the so-called "crocodile roll" to be outlawed are missing the point. Officials just need to referee the laws that already exist in the IRB law book. Arriving players MUST STAY ON THEIR FEET. If you actually consistently penalise players who fly off their feet they'll soon stop doing it and the game becomes safer. Jack's injury wouldn't have happened, the Red cards against Ireland last week and Scotland this weekend wouldn't have happened.
One of the things I'm very pleased to see, principally from the English referees who seemed to have picked up something that Wayne Barnes has being doing for a while is how they referee the scrum. They've gone back to the original principal of a scrum which is to win possession of the ball, NOT to "win" a penalty. If the team get the ball to the back of the scrum they should use it and if the scrum goes down, so-what, you've got the ball get on with playing rugby. (Contrast it has to be mentioned to Andrew Brace where Scotland had a scrum put in against England, ball goes straight to the no.8 then nothing happens. No call of "use it", he waits 4 or 5 seconds until it collapses then awards a penalty to Scotland. That is NOT rugby.)
The maul is supposed to be an ad-hoc scrum where players join, bind together and attempt to win possession by pushing their opponents off the ball, a good counter ruck is a rare but beautiful thing! Just referee the breakdown for that to happen and all the dangerous stuff disappears, simple. Players join from behind or alongside the hind-most player, they stay on their feet, bind on and push. Exactly what the Law book says. You don't need to outlaw anything, just referee the bloody laws, that's what they're for!!!
-
Ad-hoc scrum? Didn't that used to be known as a loose scrum?
-
Agree. The laws are already there. But it says it all that Negri's infringement was not even penalised. The sport has to get a hold of this and be consistent for in at the side and off feet. It's like the Wild West at the minute and injuries will mount up.
-
Shugs. I agree, I was astonished that the game restarted with a scum to Italy without so much as checking with the TMO, particularly as to add insult to (serious) injury, Italy scored from the scrum.
I don't want to have a go at Negri, you shouldn't punish the outcome of an infringement unless you are sure there was malice and I don't think for a second that he had any intention of injuring Jack, he was doing what every player is doing these days due to how the breakdown is coached and refereed. If you consider the laws, for a start, Jack was first to the ball, was on his feet and should have won possession so there's a very strong argument for a pen to England for not releasing, or the scrum should have gone to England as the team in possession at the moment the injury took place. Negri definitely went straight off his feet, penalty offence. Not quite as clear cut but looked very much like he was in at the side, also a penalty, and there was plenty of quoting of Law 9.20a, foul play at the ruck at the weekend after Scotland's red card; "A player must not charge into a ruck or maul." It is intended to outlaw head contact but it also describes Negri's actions. It does mention that "Charging includes any contact made without binding onto another player in the ruck or maul" so perhaps it's not applicable as he obviously grabbed Jack, it depends whether you call tackling someone which is essentially what he did, "binding".
So, there's at least one, clear-cut 100% certain infringement and potentially up to 3 others so to not even review the incident is ridiculous. Completely agree that they cannot continue to allow this sort of thing, rugby is quite dangerous enough already.
-
Update:
The scan of Jack Willis’ knee has revealed a significant knee ligament and cartilage injury.
He will be consulting with specialists in the coming days to plan his surgery which is expected to take place in the next 10-14 days.
The timescales associated with his injury will become clearer once he has consulted with the specialists.