Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Heathen on December 09, 2021, 11:16:03 AM
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https://twitter.com/WaspsRugby/status/1468898511227957252
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Interesting.
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Have they officially announced the argentine prop yet? Could be him?
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Argentinian prop
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Rodrigo Martinez was announced last week.
Some speculation on Twitter that it's Vincent Koch
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I don't think it's the argentinian prop as he's been announced on 1st Dec. I reckon this is a surprise one plus if anyone has noticed it has a 3 above the locker which suggests its a tighthead.
I'll put it out there... Brookes returning to tighthead on short term loan.
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RugbyInsideLine hints its Koch as well.
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Vincent Koch would be a great tighthead signing.
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Surely a play on words or theme for someone with the mask and the suit - in the number 3 shirt.
Anyone nicknamed Batman?
Robin someone
Do we assume this season or for next? Someone on Facebook guessing Vincent Koch - he often gets Mr Incredible lookalike comparisons (who wears a similar mask)
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Silhouette looks like Vincent Koch.
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So i think the link is that Koch looks like Mr Incredible... Mr Incredible also says Suit Up when he puts his mask on in the first film.
I'm fairly sure he's even been called Mr Incredible before by players due to his face and physique
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Cheats trimming their squad because of the salary cap?
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It's this Saracens reducing their salary costs.
I hate to help them, but it'd be hard to turn Koch down
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What does this mean for us though?
So we will have JTA, Koch, Scholtz and Edgar Millar Mills/Nearchou?
Suerly that means that JTA/Scholtz may be off if we need to balance the squad.
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The mask does look uncannily like that worn by Mr Incredible, plus the "suit up" reference and the fact that it's hanging on the number 3 peg does all suggest Koch. In which case surely has to be for next season as he's not likely to jump ship from Sarries mid season. Unless of course Sarries have done a few sums and discovered they need to offload 1 or 2 high earners sharpish to comply with the cap for this season (this salary cap business is all new to them after all, so they're still finding their feet!).
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confirmed as Vincent Koch
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https://twitter.com/WaspsRugby/status/1468911644386689025?t=HL5x4qycaSEt4Gr-TVdBbQ&s=19
It's Koch!
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Bobby Bridge reports.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-sign-saracens-22410944 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-sign-saracens-22410944)
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Bit of a statement that.
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joining from next season:
https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps-sign-saracens-and-springbok-prop-vincent-koch/
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That is a bloody good signing, wow.
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Bit of a statement that.
+1 especially considering the form he's in.
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Now that's interesting, I can never remember tighthead Vs loosehead, and I thought tighthead was where we were low on numbers. But actually it's loosehead.
Tightheads: Elliot Miller Mills, Pieter Scholtz, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Biyi Alo
Looseheads: Ben Harris, Robin Hislop, Tom West
I really hope Toomaga- Allen doesn't leave.
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Now that's interesting, I can never remember tighthead Vs loosehead, and I thought tighthead was where we were low on numbers. But actually it's loosehead.
Tightheads: Elliot Miller Mills, Pieter Scholtz, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Biyi Alo
Looseheads: Ben Harris, Robin Hislop, Tom West
I really hope Toomaga- Allen doesn't leave.
Hopefully Scholtz was just on an initial 1 year deal and will be first out the door. The other 3 all offer something, be it in the loose, a bit of bulk or decent potential. Scholtz so far has offered the square root of diddly squat, and it is a mystery why.
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Now that's interesting, I can never remember tighthead Vs loosehead, and I thought tighthead was where we were low on numbers. But actually it's loosehead.
Tightheads: Elliot Miller Mills, Pieter Scholtz, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Biyi Alo
Looseheads: Ben Harris, Robin Hislop, Tom West
I really hope Toomaga- Allen doesn't leave.
My feeling is that of those were currently have at tight head, only JTA is really premiership quality.
Alo's scrummaging looks good most of the time, but extra fitness would be more than useful.
The others are either projects or hopefully short term solutions that haven't really worked.
Koch gives us 3 premiership quality THP's (assuming Alo as well)
With any of the others that stay as backup.
Learning from and training with Koch will be good for them all
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WTF. That's an incredible signing.
i) He can't be cheap is still in his prime as a prop (so suggests the club is prepared to spend for the right people/positions)
ii) He surely would have had offers from plenty of other Clubs including France (which says something about our pull as a Club to players)
iii) Wonder how much Mitch might have had to do with this and his time coaching SA
iv) Is this the price Saracens have to pay to stick within the cap - wonder if this means budget freed up for Billy/Mako
Lastly, I do like that we seem to be able to go about our business without rumours getting out. This one has been completely off-radar, as was Mitch and Fifita.
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Vincent Koch - get in there!
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I do like that we seem to be able to go about our businesses without rumours getting out. This one has been completely off-radar, as was Mitch and Fifita.
We certainly like to keep our cards very close to our chest. Great way to do business.
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That is a bloody good signing, wow.
It's better than bloody good!!!!
Fekking awesome!!!
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Will certainly solidify us at tighthead. Must mean one of the 4 we have is off (smart money must be on Scholtz). I think I’ll enjoy the signing before trying to work out where that leaves us marquee/cap wise etc. That’s a very early announcement. If West stays fit for me we have two of the best scrummaging props in the league next year.
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I am struggling to get over my dislike of Saracens even in light of this news.
I'm sitting here knowing that we've just signed the best tight head prop in the league, possibly the world...
And a part of me is disappointed that we've signed someone from Saracens.
It's the wrong attitude to have, but it's a sign of how far Saracens have pushed us
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I am struggling to get over my dislike of Saracens even in light of this news.
I'm sitting here knowing that we've just signed the best tight head prop in the league, possibly the world...
And a part of me is disappointed that we've signed someone from Saracens.
It's the wrong attitude to have, but it's a sign of how far Saracens have pushed us
Hard to disagree - even as an old prop, I appreciate someone who offers so much.....
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I am struggling to get over my dislike of Saracens even in light of this news.
I'm sitting here knowing that we've just signed the best tight head prop in the league, possibly the world...
And a part of me is disappointed that we've signed someone from Saracens.
It's the wrong attitude to have, but it's a sign of how far Saracens have pushed us
I was in two minds too…….for three seconds. Fantastic news.
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Will miss big chunks of the season but will offer so much! I guess this is where some of the Fekitoa money is going? What a signing.
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Will miss big chunks of the season but will offer so much! I guess this is where some of the Fekitoa money is going? What a signing.
What Fekitoa money?
Either Fekitoa is a marquee signing and therefore not in the cap anyway.
Or Fifita is our marquee signing and we've somehow got to fit his salary into the cap next season - presumably offsetting anything we save if Fekitoa leaves
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Will miss big chunks of the season but will offer so much! I guess this is where some of the Fekitoa money is going? What a signing.
Will be interesting to see what SA fans think on this, whether he’ll be phased out by them ahead of the world cup or whether he’s still one of their best options there.
This is a huge signing and shows great intent, however who does he replace Alo has dropped down the pecking order of late, if on a two year deal is probably due for renewal this season, has been first choice for us at stages and a great project player that is coming good, popular squad guy but is his music taking some of his focus (playing devils advocate) Scholtz and Millar-Mills could easily have been on 1 yr deals but I think it’s likely they were on 2 years and are we confident JTA is still with us next year as much as we’d like him to be and as settled as he seems in the UK? Im sure it was hinted he was on a three year - also if he ends up playing for Samoa, this again raises the profile of the club.
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I am struggling to get over my dislike of Saracens even in light of this news.
I'm sitting here knowing that we've just signed the best tight head prop in the league, possibly the world...
And a part of me is disappointed that we've signed someone from Saracens.
It's the wrong attitude to have, but it's a sign of how far Saracens have pushed us
Jesus Christ, I hate Sarries as much as the next guy, but come on.
Besides Koch seems like a decent clean player.
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Most of the nasty attitude is wolf pack team culture not an individual's character. Max Malins, Ben Earl and Nick Isiekwe all seemed to lose the attitude when they went on loan and regained it when they rejoined the cess pit.
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I hope JTA stays. His personality adds a lot to his team-mates.
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That is a bloody good signing, wow.
It's better than bloody good!!!!
Fekking awesome!!!
Totally agree with that.
That has transferred our current weak front row to a awesome front row. West and Koch will be incredible (did you see what I did there)
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On Sarries, saw an article yesterday about Marcus Smith nearly signing for Lyon (before they went for Lima) and in it they mention about Joel Kpoku signing for Lyon - Saracens apparently refused to release him from his contract to any Prem Clubs (No word that any were interested) so he went to France as a full-time signing, rather than loan.
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Anyone know what his injury record is like?
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I hope JTA stays. His personality adds a lot to his team-mates.
Agreed. Having the two of them on the books would be formidable.
I think this might mean Scholtz is on the way out
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Anyone know what his injury record is like?
Probably about to get worse.
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Anyone know what his injury record is like?
Probably about to get worse.
At least used to playing on artificial pitches!
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I hope JTA stays. His personality adds a lot to his team-mates.
He’s a penalty machine but he’s a nice bloke?
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JTA is finally coming to terms with Premiership Scrummaging as his penalty against tally is shrinking.
Welcome Vincent, great signing in fact Wasps biggest signing since...........?
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Further article from Bobby Bridge :
Vincent Koch: Saracens fans saying same thing after shock Wasps news
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854)
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From today's Telegraph
Wasps have announced the signing of World Cup-winning prop Vincent Koch from their Gallagher Premiership rivals Saracens.
Koch, who will join Wasps for next season, has made more than 100 Saracens appearances, winning European and Premiership titles during that time.
The 31 year-old was a key member of South Africa's World Cup squad in 2019, a campaign that culminated in the Springboks beating England to lift the Webb Ellis Trophy.
Wasps head coach Lee Blackett said: "We have been looking for a world-class tighthead prop, and in Vincent we have found our man."
Koch added: "The saying goes 'a change is as good as a holiday'. Saracens have been amazing over the last couple of years, and I have had great times there that I will always treasure. But I believe it is time for a change, and a new challenge at Wasps is what I need for the next chapter of my career."
Billy Vunipola, Alex Lozowski and Elliot Daly were all whisked away to Saracens at differing stages of their careers. Each one felt like a statement in its own right and stung Wasps fans.
More recently, Sione Vailanu and then Ali Crossdale have headed the other way. Vincent Koch, the World Cup-winning South Africa tighthead and a founding member of the notorious Bomb Squad, has now followed suit in trading Saracens for Wasps.
Crossdale is a promising player, but the last of these moves feels the most significant by some distance. Indeed, it is a seminal reflection of the recruitment opportunities that will arise as teams reassess spending amid a claustrophobic reduction in the Premiership salary cap.
We know that Saracens are currently negotiating extensions with the Vunipola brothers, for instance. Last month, Daniel Schofield reported that initial terms tabled by Saracens were far lower than the siblings’ current deals. Eddie Jones and French clubs must be among the interested parties monitoring matters.
Saracens have made clever signings at tighthead prop that will ease the loss of Koch, bringing in Alec Clarey from Jersey and Italy international Marco Riccioni. The latter started the season brilliantly before rupturing his anterior cruciate ligament against Argentina last month. Ian Peel is a fantastic forwards coach, too.
Koch leaves north London after an impactful five years. He booted the ball into touch at St James’ Park to seal the Champions Cup final triumph over Leinster in 2019. Just last weekend, his scrummaging tormented Exeter Chiefs and earned a stream of penalties. Telegraph Sport understands that Saracens were keen to keep Koch, yet could not match what was proposed to him by Wasps.
Lee Blackett’s satisfaction jumped out of the official press release, suggesting the acquisition had been a priority and that a (possibly expensive) mission had been accomplished.
“We have been looking for a world-class tighthead prop,” said Blackett. “In Vincent, we have found our man.”
For his own part, Koch has expressed his desire to sign off with one more trophy. Saracens lie second in the Premiership without having quite hit their best. They have come the closest to toppling Leicester Tigers and are sure to be in the play-off shake-up - not least because they do not have a Champions Cup to concern them.
Although he will turn 32 before relocating to the West Midlands, and will head back and forth from Springboks commitments in the second half of next year, Koch will add value at Wasps.
Should Blackett’s injury catalogue finally ease, there is scope to assemble a mightily talented pack next season. Tom West and Robin Hislop, two of Wasps’ loosehead props, are in the thoughts of England and Scotland selectors, respectively. Dan Frost has been a revelation at hooker with Gabriel Oghre bound to improve. Whether or not Jeffrey Toomaga-Allen stays, Koch bolsters those front-row options.
A lock pairing of Elliott Stooke and Joe Launchbury would likely slide Vaea Fifita to his preferred position of blindside flanker. Among some fine back-rowers, with Thomas Young returning to Wales, are both Willis brothers, Alfie Barbeary, Nizaam Carr and Brad Shields.
A lower salary-cap ceiling is causing headaches around the country among backroom figures juggling budgets. But, with moves like Koch’s, it could lead to an absorbing - and open - Premiership title race next year.
Perhaps more than any other club boss, Blackett knows how availability issues can decimate a squad that looks far healthier on paper. Wasps, ravaged by injuries since their entertaining run to the Premiership final in 2020, finished eighth last season and are currently languishing in ninth.
Capturing the signature of Koch will at least convince supporters that they are looking up, rather than down.
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Thanks for posting. Interesting read.
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Thanks - a bit broader look at the situation.
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The article is spot on. With our back row options and the way the locks and Frost have gone our pack could be a huge asset next year. Blackett said some time ago he would focus on the pack. He continues to deliver on that.
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If the Squad can be got fit and kept fit ...... it will be a team to dream about.
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And if we retain them all…………
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What a huge lift that will give the squad.
It’s a great statement…and will just add that notch of intensity to training.
Fabulous news.
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Well I already had an extra spring in my step since hearing we’d signed Rodrigo and I can’t wait to see him in action against Munster the weekend. I’ll be there!
But this news … well he’s without question one of the best players in World Rugby isn’t he? A better role model for our young forwards I can’t imagine.
Vinnie if you were looking to transform a teams results, you really couldn’t have made a better choice, this 🐝 pack is building very nicely.
Great to have you on board.
Well done to Lee and the team who negotiated this. COYW 🐝
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Well I already had an extra spring in my step since hearing we’d signed Rodrigo and I can’t wait to see him in action against Munster the weekend. I’ll be there!
But this news … well he’s without question one of the best players in World Rugby isn’t he? A better role model for our young forwards I can’t imagine.
Vinnie if you were looking to transform a teams results, you really couldn’t have made a better choice, this 🐝 pack is building very nicely.
Great to have you on board.
Well done to Lee and the team who negotiated this. COYW 🐝
+1
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And another plus one.
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Most of the nasty attitude is wolf pack team culture not an individual's character. Max Malins, Ben Earl and Nick Isiekwe all seemed to lose the attitude when they went on loan and regained it when they rejoined the cess pit.
Ive really noticed this too - Ben Earl in particular.
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The article is spot on. With our back row options and the way the locks and Frost have gone our pack could be a huge asset next year. Blackett said some time ago he would focus on the pack. He continues to deliver on that.
Are our backs now suffering a little as a result though?
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I don’t believe so. If everyone gets fit we possibly just need some depth at 12. If we lose Fekitoa that gap will need plugging. I think we just need some consistency of combinations there.
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Further article from Bobby Bridge :
Vincent Koch: Saracens fans saying same thing after shock Wasps news
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854)
No surprise that Sarries fans are gutted to see him go, Thought this was an odd quote: "Most underrated prop in world rugby.". Underrated?? Really?? I think most would rate him as one of the best, if not the best tighthead in world rugby. He's a great player and is recognised as such, so definitely not underrated. Great bit of business. Huge pat on the back for all those involved in making this happen (and keeping it quiet).
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I wonder if he can have a chat with De Allende about how great Coventry and our training facilities are....... ;D
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Further article from Bobby Bridge :
Vincent Koch: Saracens fans saying same thing after shock Wasps news
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-saracens-rugby-22412854)
No surprise that Sarries fans are gutted to see him go, Thought this was an odd quote: "Most underrated prop in world rugby.". Underrated?? Really?? I think most would rate him as one of the best, if not the best tighthead in world rugby. He's a great player and is recognised as such, so definitely not underrated. Great bit of business. Huge pat on the back for all those involved in making this happen (and keeping it quiet).
Not sure any prop involved in the SA front rows can be considered underrated...
I'll be honest, I rate Furlong and potentially Sinkler slightly higher, but it's not by much.
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I certainly don't rate Sinckler's scrummaging.
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I certainly don't rate Sinckler's scrummaging.
Nor his temperament.
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Sinkler's scrummaging is fine. He's generally solid at international level, with only the boks really hurting him, and lets be honest, who don't they hurt?
As for his temperament, the only time I can think of him losing it was when Cowan Dickie flew in and smashed his knees with a LCD special. Fairly sure a few on here have had issue with those low grasscutter tackles before too. He's similar to Genge, right on the edge, but rarely over. Again, plenty saying they want a bit of nasty in the pack, well that's as close as you can get these days.
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Personally I’d take Koch over Sinckler. Both fine players of course but Koch edges it for me at scrum time.
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Sinkler's scrummaging is fine. He's generally solid at international level, with only the boks really hurting him, and lets be honest, who don't they hurt?
I still don't rate Sinckler's scrummaging. He may find it easier to hold his own at international level but that would IMO be because he has better players behind him. At club level, he goes down far too easily. There are THs better in the scrum than him in the Prem - Brookes for one, before he left for France.
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I wonder if he can have a chat with De Allende about how great Coventry and our training facilities are....... ;D
+1.
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Bobby Bridge's opiniion.
Vincent Koch the 'missing ingredient' in Wasps' pack
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-rugby-saracens-22427110 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/vincent-koch-wasps-rugby-saracens-22427110)