Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Rossm on June 08, 2021, 09:36:45 PM
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Eddie Jones' side will play three matches against Scotland A, USA and Canada
Bobby Bridge reports:
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/england-rugby-squad-announcement-wasps-20771381 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/england-rugby-squad-announcement-wasps-20771381)
I wonder how many will actually get a call up?
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Good list however I would prefer none to go forward. They have virtually played two seasons since last summer ( yes there were matches before) with sometimes two to three matches in short order time. Just over a week between seasons, no covid breaks like most others and with restricted rotation due to injuries. Our players need a thorough rest. Just my pennywort!
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Plus 1
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Good list however I would prefer none to go forward. They have virtually played two seasons since last summer ( yes there were matches before) with sometimes two to three matches in short order time. Just over a week between seasons, no covid breaks like most others and with restricted rotation due to injuries. Our players need a thorough rest. Just my pennywort!
It’s not just that, last season’s games were completed at the rate of 2 per week. Add in all the injuries and some of the players must be both physically and mentally shattered.
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I'd go further. If you take cash out of the equation there is no need to play these games at all. The USA and Canada will simply be trounced and the England players selected will be rapidly jettisoned for the old guard.
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I'd go further. If you take cash out of the equation there is no need to play these games at all. The USA and Canada will simply be trounced and the England players selected will be rapidly jettisoned for the old guard.
This. I went on a rant about this on another thread - all the headlines about Jones wanting to use these games for new and younger players sounded liked spheroids at the time.
I think we can guess most of the squad for 2023 already......
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Agree with Shugs and Mike909 above, I don't really see the point of the matches and, from a selfish, Wasps perspective, would rather our players be left out
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I do understand the concern with our players playing in this squad and the nervousness with our injury record but then I think how much all of these guys will want to be capped by England and how much it would mean to them.
For example, Josh Bassett has toiled away week in week out in the Prem and worked his socks off making it into Saxons squads. I would love his opportunity to get capped officially and would provide resounding appreciation for his work.
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I do understand the concern with our players playing in this squad and the nervousness with our injury record but then I think how much all of these guys will want to be capped by England and how much it would mean to them.
For example, Josh Bassett has toiled away week in week out in the Prem and worked his socks off making it into Saxons squads. I would love his opportunity to get capped officially and would provide resounding appreciation for his work.
Totally agree with the sentiment that these players deserve it and of course it would mean a great deal to them to get that first cap. However, I have to agree with others, matches against Scotland A, Canada and USA don't offer much by way of an opportunity to impress as individual performances will be judged in the context of the quality of the opposition. It will take more than that to find inroads into Eddie's England. Those coming into the team for the first time are there to plug a hole while incumbents are off with the Lions. Come the autumn with tier 1 opposition, the usual suspects will be back, and those who shine this summer will be forgotten.
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I know and completely agree with others statement, just trying to think from players POV.
I do worry that Eddie has a habit of breaking 'our toys' and I am especially worried about Alfie.
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England toured the USA and Canada 20 years ago. Amongst the players who made their debut on that tour were Lewis Moody, Ben Kay & Tom Palmer. I suspect they may disagree on the value of a no-pressure introduction to international Rugby.
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England toured the USA and Canada 20 years ago. Amongst the players who made their debut on that tour were Lewis Moody, Ben Kay & Tom Palmer. I suspect they may disagree on the value of a no-pressure introduction to international Rugby.
By EJ wasn't the coach then. His previous actions of including clearly non-match fit Estate Agents in the 6N and BY no matter what does suggest that the squad is already set in stone so any performances this summer will be discounted once the regulars are back and available.
That said, if I were a player I would be looking at it totally differently; it's the chance of a cap and Jones won't be there forever so it is an opportunity to put down a marker for the future.
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By EJ wasn't the coach then. His previous actions of including clearly non-match fit Estate Agents in the 6N and BY no matter what does suggest that the squad is already set in stone so any performances this summer will be discounted once the regulars are back and available.
That said, if I were a player I would be looking at it totally differently; it's the chance of a cap and Jones won't be there forever so it is an opportunity to put down a marker for the future.
Agreed on both. But in so far as RWC 23 is concerned, I'd be v surprised if anything came out of these games.
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By EJ wasn't the coach then. His previous actions of including clearly non-match fit Estate Agents in the 6N and BY no matter what does suggest that the squad is already set in stone so any performances this summer will be discounted once the regulars are back and available.
That said, if I were a player I would be looking at it totally differently; it's the chance of a cap and Jones won't be there forever so it is an opportunity to put down a marker for the future.
Agreed on both. But in so far as RWC 23 is concerned, I'd be v surprised if anything came out of these games.
Yes - I was thinking post RWC23, so for the likes of Bassett it will be just for getting a cap. Let's face it, that is something to tell the grandkids and I wouldn't blame the players for wanting to play whatever the longer term prospects....The games are a waste of time though and from a Wasps point of view, I hope none of them get picked!
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It'll also be, what, £20k in the pocket of any player picked. Nice bonus.
And, for Wasps, a sign to current and potential players that we are a club at which you can fulfill your international aspirations.
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Exactly
We talk about posting in top tier European competition as being required so we can attract the best players.
Having your players represent their international team also makes us attractive to prospective players.
From a player perspective, they'd all rather have 1 cap against USA than end their careers with no caps.
I totally see the other side of it, but I feel it's a bit selfish of us not to consider what the players themselves would ultimately want
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I totally see the other side of it, but I feel it's a bit selfish of us not to consider what the players themselves would ultimately want
agree totally, how many young rugby players have the dream of representing their country, and how many actually get to do it?
Also remember this is their job, they get paid, quite well, to play for England, plus being an international adds to their value both as players & post rugby, as coaches or pundits or any other form of employment where having the tag "ex England rugby player" will help them.
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Any other end of season ,any other year and possibly any other head coach ( for me anyway) this discussion thread wouldn’t have lasted as long as it has.
I’m sure if I was in the running ( fat chance ever) I would want to be in side ,no matter how knackered.
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I’m sure if I was in the running ( fat chance ever) I would want to be in side ,no matter how knackered
I would expect most players thinking exactly that way, IMO
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I’m sure if I was in the running ( fat chance ever) I would want to be in side ,no matter how knackered
I would expect most players thinking exactly that way, IMO
I know I would. (if I was a player...ha...) But I'd guess my S&C coach would not be so pleased if I was knackered......
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Out of that lot:
I think Bassett & Shields are too old. Eddie already has older experienced heads
Its a bit early I think for Atkinson & Oghre. I think its probably too early for Alfie, but he might well get selected for a wider squad
Robson & West should be shoe ins I think, Jacob may get something too.
Willis might be an outside bet, but would expect Billy to play all the matches (except maybe the A game)
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Tom (Willis), Dobby, Jacob and Josh are all in England's provisional squad.
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Tom (Willis), Dobby, Jacob and Josh are all in England's provisional squad.
This would suggest Tom West is crocked.
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Tom (Willis), Dobby, Jacob and Josh are all in England's provisional squad.
This would suggest Tom West is crocked.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/england-rugby-squad-announcement-west-20780559
Out for 3 months.
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Brilliant for all of them, but feel so sad for Westy tho' he has time on his side. Marvellous for Tom Willis, and so happy that Josh has at last been given his (long overdue) recognition. CONGRATULATIONS GENTLEMEN!
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Very much an "A" squad, with Ford, Youngs, May, Billy V, Slade, Stuart, Malins, Earl, Wilson all of which had significant 6N involvement all rested, and the rest of the core of that 6N squad away with the Lions. Only really Genge, Lawrence and Robson retained.
Pleased for those selected, especially Bassett who has been so consistently good for so long now. Feared his opportunity may have passed.
Please look after them Eddie!
(Edit: Just realised players from clubs involved in Premiership and Championship playoffs not considered, so not all of the above necessarily rested)