Always a Wasp

General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Shugs on May 16, 2022, 08:30:39 PM

Title: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Shugs on May 16, 2022, 08:30:39 PM
By no means an official confirmation but according to the bookies Launchbury and Barbeary make the England squad for the summer. No surprises anywhere else according to them.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: mike909 on May 17, 2022, 09:00:04 AM
By no means an official confirmation but according to the bookies Launchbury and Barbeary make the England squad for the summer. No surprises anywhere else according to them.
So that's wing and fullback covered....
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: westwaleswasp on May 17, 2022, 10:01:43 AM
By no means an official confirmation but according to the bookies Launchbury and Barbeary make the England squad for the summer. No surprises anywhere else according to them.
So that's wing and fullback covered....

I was about to say the same thing!
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: coddy on May 17, 2022, 10:04:55 AM
I would expect Jack Willis to tour also.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: andermt on May 17, 2022, 10:25:36 AM
Alfie, Jack and Joe all called up into training squad.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: InBetweenWasp on May 17, 2022, 10:31:26 AM
Slade, Marchant, Youngs, Ford jettisoned.

Is there a reason why Slade/Marchant aren't in the squad?

Marler presumably is family related.

How on earth Ewels keeps his place in the squad i've got no idea.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: MarleyWasp on May 17, 2022, 10:44:45 AM
The squad in full

Props:
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 9 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, uncapped)

Hooker:
Jack Willis (Wasps, 3 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 70 caps)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)

Second Row:
Henry Arundell (London Irish, uncapped)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 6 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 10 caps)

Back Row:
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 56 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 93 caps)
Will Joseph (London Irish, uncapped)
Louis Lynagh (Harlequins, uncapped)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 46 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 51 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)

Scrum Half:
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)

Fly Half:
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)

Centre:
Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 40 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 94 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 28 caps)

Wing/Full Back:
Nic Dolly (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 30 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 20 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 67 caps)



Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: InBetweenWasp on May 17, 2022, 10:54:19 AM
 ;D

Got Alfie's position right though, so phew.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Neils on May 17, 2022, 11:02:56 AM
Good to see Wasps putting up two hookers  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: RogerE on May 17, 2022, 11:06:13 AM
and Mako playing as wing/full back, while Marcus Smith and Henry Arundell are playing in the 2nd row :)
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Steve from Cov on May 17, 2022, 11:28:13 AM
Alfie, Jack and Joe all called up into training squad.

Great news. Particularly pleased that Jack is back in the mix.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Steve from Cov on May 17, 2022, 12:01:02 PM
It’s a little odd that none of Exeter‘s players have been selected in the training squad but Bath and Saints both have six.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: JonnyD on May 17, 2022, 01:53:19 PM
I know this is a training squad but there are some odd selections here.

Some rested as surely Slade and Marchant in particular have done nothing wrong - conspiracy theorist in me thinks the lack of centres is to accommodate Farrell at 12.

Realistically, are some these guys ready to be world class by the time of the World Cup despite being promising eg. Dingwall, Freeman, Dolly, Pearson.

Good to see JvP and Mitchell in there though, not sure what Quirke has done to upset Eddie
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Rossm on May 17, 2022, 01:55:40 PM
Raffi Quirke has been ruled out for the remainder of this season's campaign with Sale and from the England tour of Australia with a torn-at-the-tendon hamstring injury that required an operation on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: DGP Wasp on May 17, 2022, 02:00:58 PM
Wonder what "work-ons" Arundell will be given when he doesn't make the final cut?
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Westy68 on May 17, 2022, 02:02:24 PM
Also odd Anthony Watson included, his is fit.

Would love Alfie to be able to play 12
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: mike909 on May 17, 2022, 02:03:00 PM
I'm easily confused, but Jones' England over the last couple of years have done little to reduce that confusion.....Two 5th place finishes in a row, in the 6Ns would have been curtains for most coaches. Add to that selections that seemed to go against the strategies/tactics that have worked and would maximise England winning any game over the next 18 months (i.e. to the RWC) and this selection demonstrates little, that provides confidence in England's chances in the RWC. Even allowing for the good draw....

England can win any game - it's nearly always been true - as we can select a powerful pack (probably select several...) which could dominate the set piece, the maul and get lots of possession. We've beaten the ABs several times because of that ability. But Jones' England in the last 2 (and especially the last) 6Ns have made selections that meant England's point of difference was negated - i.e. having a strong pack and having players who get over the gainline by power, offload or pace. And yet we seemed that without players like Billy/Mako V, Manu, Cokasinga or Watson and May, we seemed surprised that we lost 3 games and were pretty lucky in the other one vs Wales....

So - re England's squad....unless we start to look towards where our games have been won in recent times, individual selections - by themselves - are fun to chat about, but unlikely to improve England's chances...
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Bloke in North Dorset on May 17, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Wonder what "work-ons" Arundell will be given when he doesn't make the final cut?
Increase his speed?
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Bloke in North Dorset on May 17, 2022, 02:22:20 PM
Interesting Tweet:

Quote
RugbyInsideLine
@RugbyInsideLine
·
3h
SCORE

Gloucester 🍒 64-0 🛁 Bath

PLAYERS IN ENGLAND TRAINING SQUAD

Gloucester 🍒 0-6 🛁 Bath

Its not a reflection of how many foreigners have eiether.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Shugs on May 17, 2022, 02:36:48 PM
Pleased for the Wasps trio. But there are some bizarre selections in there. Six Bath players who have been dismal for two years. If Robson isn’t a better scrum half than Randall I’ll eat my hat. And the squad seems peculiarly short of centres. I don’t count Tuilagi who will probably pull out (and to be frank is still only a good player in the eyes of a strangely obsessed media). Only a training squad I know but it just continues to be both deflating and confusing.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: baldpaul101 on May 17, 2022, 02:39:53 PM
Quote
individual selections - by themselves - are fun to chat about, but unlikely to improve England's chances

exactly this.

Whilst its great for individuals to be given the opportunity to represent England ( & the cash that goes with it!!) I can't see many players outside of the 6 nations match day squads getting much game time on tour. I actually agree with that. You might as well pick a team that knows how to play the way Jones wants, even if it results in failure, rather than picking exciting youngsters & making them change the way they play....

Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Peej on May 17, 2022, 03:36:56 PM
Interesting Tweet:

Quote
RugbyInsideLine
@RugbyInsideLine
·
3h
SCORE

Gloucester 🍒 64-0 🛁 Bath

PLAYERS IN ENGLAND TRAINING SQUAD

Gloucester 🍒 0-6 🛁 Bath

Its not a reflection of how many foreigners have eiether.

Which English Gloucester players would you put in the England squad, and ahead of who? I would maybe make a case for Rapava-Ruskin, who I think is under-rated. Perhaps Freddie Clarke for the BaaBaas. But I wouldn't pick any others.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: DGP Wasp on May 17, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
And the squad seems peculiarly short of centres.

With so few centres in the squad, who will he play on the wing?
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Shugs on May 17, 2022, 06:08:55 PM
Interesting Tweet:

Quote
RugbyInsideLine
@RugbyInsideLine
·
3h
SCORE

Gloucester 🍒 64-0 🛁 Bath

PLAYERS IN ENGLAND TRAINING SQUAD

Gloucester 🍒 0-6 🛁 Bath

Its not a reflection of how many foreigners have eiether.

Which English Gloucester players would you put in the England squad, and ahead of who? I would maybe make a case for Rapava-Ruskin, who I think is under-rated. Perhaps Freddie Clarke for the BaaBaas. But I wouldn't pick any others.
I’d make a decent case for Ludlam, Singleton, Atkinson and Thorley.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Shugs on May 17, 2022, 06:10:34 PM
And the squad seems peculiarly short of centres.

With so few centres in the squad, who will he play on the wing?
  :). Steward? There are precedents!!
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Bloke in North Dorset on May 17, 2022, 07:36:23 PM
Another interesting Tweet:

Quote
Will Kelleher
@willgkelleher
Welcome new followers to our News from the #statcave tweet after each Eddie Jones squad.

Now up to 183 players picked since 2016.

Henry Arundell! Will Joseph! Jack van Poortvliet! Come on Down! (in the Price is Right announcer voice).

Remember, 43% never won a cap with him.

It would be interesting to know how this compares to other England head coaches and their peers in France (the other countries in the NH don't have the depth to make it a meaningful comparison), but my sense is that's a lot of players being rejected once Eddie has seen them in camp. What it does to moral I can only guess, but I don't think Paulo or Jacob are better players for their time in England camps, if anything I feel they've regressed.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Marlow Nick on May 18, 2022, 08:24:15 AM
Wonder what "work-ons" Arundell will be given when he doesn't make the final cut?
Increase his speed?

No he's too fast and risks getting isolated if the rest can't keep up.
1. Needs to work on slowing down
2. Needs to work on his kicking because that's the strategy for the whole team
3. Needs to practice wearing gloves because his hands will get cold waiting for a pass from his centres that never comes
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: baldpaul101 on May 18, 2022, 09:21:44 AM
4. his kick chase
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: WonkyWasp on May 18, 2022, 10:36:39 AM
       ;D
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Rossm on May 18, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
Needs to cut out the sidesteps. Everybody knows the shortest way between 2 points is a straight line, mate.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Peej on May 18, 2022, 04:52:54 PM
Interesting Tweet:

Quote
RugbyInsideLine
@RugbyInsideLine
·
3h
SCORE

Gloucester 🍒 64-0 🛁 Bath

PLAYERS IN ENGLAND TRAINING SQUAD

Gloucester 🍒 0-6 🛁 Bath

Its not a reflection of how many foreigners have eiether.

Which English Gloucester players would you put in the England squad, and ahead of who? I would maybe make a case for Rapava-Ruskin, who I think is under-rated. Perhaps Freddie Clarke for the BaaBaas. But I wouldn't pick any others.
I’d make a decent case for Ludlam, Singleton, Atkinson and Thorley.

Do you mean Ludlow? Ludlam of Saints is in the squad. Afraid I disagree on the others. Singleton doesn't start enough, and I'd put him behind Oghre anyway. But McGuigan is one of the best hookers in the league. Atkinson isn't good enough, and Thorley is in no kind of form at all.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Shugs on May 18, 2022, 05:44:12 PM
Yes, sorry, Ludlow. To take them one by one. Is Ludlow better than Ewels? Is Atkinson better than - well no-one really. Is Thorley better than Watson/Steward as a wing. Is Singleton better than Blamire? Up for debate but I can understand why Glaws think they should have one or two in.
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Rossm on May 18, 2022, 06:39:28 PM
Yes, sorry, Ludlow. To take them one by one. Is Ludlow better than Ewels? Is Atkinson better than - well no-one really. Is Thorley better than Watson/Steward as a wing. Is Singleton better than Blamire? Up for debate but I can understand why Glaws think they should have one or two in.

More to the point surely Elliot Stooke is better than Ewells?
Title: Re: Bookies Eng squad for the summer.
Post by: Peej on May 19, 2022, 10:46:14 AM
Yes, sorry, Ludlow. To take them one by one. Is Ludlow better than Ewels? Is Atkinson better than - well no-one really. Is Thorley better than Watson/Steward as a wing. Is Singleton better than Blamire? Up for debate but I can understand why Glaws think they should have one or two in.

Ludlow and Ewels are not like for like though. I don't think Ewels should be in the squad, I'm actually amazed he is, but Ludlow wouldn't be who I replaced him with. I would look at someone like Robinson at Newcastle, or even Freddie Clarke.