Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on December 20, 2022, 09:35:12 AM
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Undoubtedly written by the local bias professional -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64026368
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so if Wasps had not gone into admin. but got relegated because they finished bottom of the table what would his argument be then.
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"The clubs in the Championship are in limbo again because nobody will tell us what our league looks like and what the funding model looks like while they sort out and prioritise two failed clubs."
This half of the article is correct. Champ clubs need to understand what their league is going to look like asap. That's not necessarily an issue question for anyone to answer. How can RFU/PRL plan for a new season not knowing for example if Warriors will be playing or not? Warriors or Wasps dropping out the prem into it are just another variable.
The second half is a bit of an anti Wasps rant. I wonder if its been edited to male it appear so?
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No, it is not edited. It was a rant. If you listen to the CWR interview, and see the tweet that Cov RUFC released, you will see that they are not happy.
The tweet:
https://twitter.com/CoventryRugby/status/1604776587744137216
I have seen some ex-Cov players saying the tweet and radio interview were not the best idea that Nick Johnston has ever had.
The CWR tweet:
https://twitter.com/BBCCWRSport/status/1604775259999272960
If you listen to the audio, the rant/interview starts at 2:22
Thing is, Cov RUFC also went in to liquidation in 2009, and looked for donations and all sorts to dig themselves out of the hole. They also engaged in shenanigans over the ground. Coventry City Council had effectively given Butts Park to them to use, as previous financial mismanagement had cost them Coundon Road (I think that was the site). But, the then owner changed who owned the ground, so that when the club went bust again, he kept the ground. Much as has happened at Worcester. People in glass houses. The players and people of Coventry do not so easily forget, as a lot of local businesses lost a lot of money (as they have with our demise).
The other issue is about the Rule that a Pheonix club should remain at its ground. But the rule does not say that. It says staying at the ground should be something the RFU should consider. On the one hand, he is saying he wants Wasps out of Coventry, and then he says he wants them to play in Coventry.
How does playing in Solihull make any difference? Would he complain if any of the other local rugby clubs got promoted to the Championship?
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Also worth noting that Coventry were only deducted 15 league points that season, not automatically relegated.
Ultimately they were relegated that season, but by virtue of finishing last in the relegation playoff table.
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Well that is most certainly a rant and so full of contradictions it's actually difficult to make much sense of it!
Solihull is in their "Back Yard" is it? It's a hell of a lot closer to Birmingham than Coventry so you when we play them you could call it a Midlands derby in the same way as Tigers playing Saints but we're hardly going to be stealing supporters from them so what's the problem exactly?
So they changed their business model and survived Covid unlike Wasps? Congratulations but according to the RFU, Covid wasn't the reason that we went under, we had an unsustainable business model before then.
Apparently we shouldn't be given a "helping hand". What helping hand??? We've been stripped of our Premiership shares and relegated and the new owners had to undergo a rigorous check to make sure that the new business met sustainable criteria.
We think we're Real Madrid with our "Propaganda Machine" do we? You might want to be careful making analogies with Soccer teams, many of those have debts that make ours look like small change.
Forgive my ignorance of club ruby history but were Coventry really the best club in England in the 70s and 80s? I'd have thought that Bath and Tigers might dispute that claim.
But he's looking forward to a "proper local derby" even though we might be playing in Scotland. WTF????
He's got a lot to say for someone who doesn't pay us much attention!!! Idiot.
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Yes, I think he should have had a think before going to air all puffed up and annoyed. His valid points, few though they were, just got lost in the nonsense bits (I.e. don’t come and play in our back yard coupled with you should stick to the rule and play in Coventry)!
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Nice to see the rugby family pulling together again. A very merry Christmas to him too.
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"You'd think with the propaganda machine Wasps have they think they're Real Madrid, not a team with a million-odd pound debt."
Real Madrid debt.
"The Club's Net Debt, excluding the stadium redevelopment project, has reached a value of -€263 million as of 30 June 2022."
Well, I bet this guy is really informed and on the ball.......
With stadium redevelopment.....
Real Madrid €662m
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It seems Mr Johnston believes the Championship is HIS league or CRFC's league. He mentions it more than once. It's not his league or his club's league at all. Does he seriously believe the RFU must consult him for his approval before relegating a premiership team into the Championship? And our relegation is definitely not done as a helping hand out of RFU favouritism.
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I have a great deal of sympathy with Championship clubs. What given right do Wasps (or Worcester come to that) have to be parachuted into the Championship. We have no squad, no administration, no ground, no staff; we do have a training ground (arguably retained by dubious means), a sullied name and a history of huge debt.
Yet we seem to expect the Championship clubs and supporters to welcome us with open arms and believe it a privilege that we play in their midst. So what's going to happen? One up and 2 enforced relegations to give a championship of 13? Who's going to tell London Scottish/Ampthill/Caldy they're being relegated in addition to the bottom club and that Rams/Sale FC/Rosslyn Park aren't being promoted from Nat One? This is the core of this "rant".
As I've said in another thread, let's have less arrogance, more realism and a great deal more understanding and humility.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
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And 5
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And there I rest my case.
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I'm sure the Championship clubs won't mind us and hopefully Worcester so much if we bring enough supporters for them to sell out our away matches...
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As Shugs rightly says, "The RFU now have to sort that out". Lets hope they do in a way which is fair and beneficial to all.
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As Shugs rightly says, "The RFU now have to sort that out". Lets hope they do in a way which is fair and beneficial to all.
Fat chance >:(
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Fat chance >:(
And there I'm in 100% agreement.
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I think Shugs put it very well. Myself and my wife are not showing any form of supority with regards to entering the championship we are just glad we still exist. The premiersjip and RFU have made this the only option. As shugs stated a certain team was slapped on the wrist and allowed to keep a squad and all trophies gained from breaking premiership rules. We are competing under the rules the RFU have demanded we meet wjich means championship rugby in an area local to Coventry.
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I think Shugs put it very well. Myself and my wife are not showing any form of supority with regards to entering the championship we are just glad we still exist. The premiersjip and RFU have made this the only option. As shugs stated a certain team was slapped on the wrist and allowed to keep a squad and all trophies gained from breaking premiership rules. We are competing under the rules the RFU have demanded we meet wjich means championship rugby in an area local to Coventry.
Personally I don't feel smug about anything. I would be surprised if we managed to 'retain' more than a couple of players (but maybe some academy players added to that) for the main squad. We will likely be building a squad at the last minute (almost all players who have contract renewals will have sorted them by now, except those that no club want to sign), and those we do manage to recruit are unlikely to be the 'best' even by Championship standards. I am sort of expecting a lot of youth (every year PRL clubs release academy prospects they don't want in their main squad), some of whom may turn out to be diamonds in the rough, and some players who are in their twilight years. As a consequence, I expect us to struggle to not get relegated. After all, the RFU will be looking for a way to get the Championship numbers down. There are 12 teams there currently, add in us and Worcester, plus one more (to make it 10 in the PRL) from the PRL, plus one promoted team, and that means 4 teams going down.
Dropping from 13 down to 10 in the PRL will bump its way down all leagues, unless the RFU find a different structure.
So, yes, it is going to be a tough season, especially when the current Championship teams did not expect to have to plan for it. London Scottish already look in trouble, but all of a sudden, Cornish Pirates, Richmond, Ampthill and Caldy are worrying about their futures, through no fault of their own.
I am pretty sure Coventry would have been hoping to push towards promotion soon, and having 2 or 3 ex-PRL sides extra to fight with is not what they planned for. It does depend what budget those clubs have for players though. However, I am pretty sure Coventry do not have the money or backing to afford to compete with the PRL sugar daddies. I am confident we do not.
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As Shugs rightly says, "The RFU now have to sort that out". Lets hope they do in a way which is fair and beneficial to all.
Their own rules have ended up giving them a conundrum to unpick. Don’t forget the PRL are reportedly trying to shed a team as well. Who knows how that works! Completely agree the outcome needs to be fair to all.
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I really don’t give a shit about Coventry rugby or football club. I have never know an area bitch so much. I hope we score 50+ against them next season
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I really don’t give a shit about Coventry rugby or football club. I have never know an area bitch so much. I hope we score 50+ against them next season
Steady on. CRFC are playing well - and we haven't even got a team yet. :-\
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To be fair, CRFC is not the first club to have an owner/CEO that’s an utter dick.
I reckon it’s best not to take it out on their fans or followers, just put his comments on the changing room wall next time we play them— after all, it worked with Barwell’s “iffy players” comments.
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As Shugs rightly says, "The RFU now have to sort that out". Lets hope they do in a way which is fair and beneficial to all.
Their own rules have ended up giving them a conundrum to unpick. Don’t forget the PRL are reportedly trying to shed a team as well. Who knows how that works! Completely agree the outcome needs to be fair to all.
The bit that needs sorting out urgently is Worcester. If they are to continue in the Championship it causes a big headache If they don't then it's quite an easy fix, Wasps hit the Championship and whoever wins (likely to be Ealing) get promoted to the Prem, 12 teams in each, so no real change.
the issue comes if they decide they only want 10 in the Prem at which point they have a major issue as they need to relegate someone else, and I can only see that ending up in court as they stated no relegation this year as the plan had been to get the Prem upto 14 clubs.
maybe not looking too deeply at conspiracy theories but I wonder if the goings on at Worcester are giving them a good excuse to have two 12 club leagues.
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As Shugs rightly says, "The RFU now have to sort that out". Lets hope they do in a way which is fair and beneficial to all.
Their own rules have ended up giving them a conundrum to unpick. Don’t forget the PRL are reportedly trying to shed a team as well. Who knows how that works! Completely agree the outcome needs to be fair to all.
The bit that needs sorting out urgently is Worcester. If they are to continue in the Championship it causes a big headache If they don't then it's quite an easy fix, Wasps hit the Championship and whoever wins (likely to be Ealing) get promoted to the Prem, 12 teams in each, so no real change.
the issue comes if they decide they only want 10 in the Prem at which point they have a major issue as they need to relegate someone else, and I can only see that ending up in court as they stated no relegation this year as the plan had been to get the Prem upto 14 clubs.
maybe not looking too deeply at conspiracy theories but I wonder if the goings on at Worcester are giving them a good excuse to have two 12 club leagues.
Yes. And/or. If one or two more clubs cannot continue to finance players to the cap. Suppose two clubs started lowering wage offers substantially, to get down to maybe £1-1.5m a year? Started saying to players who were likely to leave because oof this, if you want to go, find a new club now and we will release you?
With 'no relegation' this year, they would be safe doing that. Cutting costs massively (and as time goes by, costs drop), but keep the PRL money coming in, and watching attendance fall down to their core support? Not mentioning any names (Falcons and Irish). In effect, if only one club goes 'down' each year, one of those two clubs keeps that up for two years and maybe survives with no loss of face.
Which prompted me to go look at the PRL table. Haven't done that for a while. Bristol at the bottom, Bath at 8th. Two clubs with all the money, but not the glory. However, the two clubs I expected there are there or thereabouts in 9th and 10th; Falcons and Irish.
Two teams out, one in. Two teams without a sugar daddy out, one with a sugar daddy in.
It still leaves the PRL with a problem. They need to get rid of one team (net) in the PRL. They need one more to go under. If those two clubs I mentioned aren't going to play ball and do that, they still have a problem. At some point, two teams have to go down, or one team goes down with no promotion (for Ealing).
And then, depending on what happens at Worcester (at this time they are gone completely), more than one club will be relegated from the Championship to keep that at 12.
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To be perfectly honest Marlovian I couldn’t give a tinkers cuss what any other team thinks. As far as I am aware administration where you can’t prove no fault carries the sanction of relegation. So we’ve not really bullied our way into the Championship or been parachuted in - that’s just where the process puts us. The RFU now have to sort that out. I don’t think anyone’s saying the Championship should be glad to have us etc and I don’t think there is any particular arrogance. I also dont think we need to regard ourselves as sullied. We tried something eminently laudable and it failed. Let’s face it, in the recent past a team has blatantly cheated it’s way to, and kept multiple titles and when found out took “some” punishment but then peddled the “let’s draw a line under things now” agenda. Don’t see why we can’t do the same.
Well put. The EA's situation still grates - but in order to participate in general discussions elsewhere - I've had to put it to one side - even when conversing with some of their v smug supporters. If they can basically "play" the system because they could afford a season relegated, not open their books and expect to be welcomed back to the Prem - then our problems look rather low key....
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Yes. And/or. If one or two more clubs cannot continue to finance players to the cap. Suppose two clubs started lowering wage offers substantially, to get down to maybe £1-1.5m a year? Started saying to players who were likely to leave because oof this, if you want to go, find a new club now and we will release you?
With 'no relegation' this year, they would be safe doing that. Cutting costs massively (and as time goes by, costs drop), but keep the PRL money coming in, and watching attendance fall down to their core support? Not mentioning any names (Falcons and Irish). In effect, if only one club goes 'down' each year, one of those two clubs keeps that up for two years and maybe survives with no loss of face.
Which prompted me to go look at the PRL table. Haven't done that for a while. Bristol at the bottom, Bath at 8th. Two clubs with all the money, but not the glory. However, the two clubs I expected there are there or thereabouts in 9th and 10th; Falcons and Irish.
Two teams out, one in. Two teams without a sugar daddy out, one with a sugar daddy in.
It still leaves the PRL with a problem. They need to get rid of one team (net) in the PRL. They need one more to go under. If those two clubs I mentioned aren't going to play ball and do that, they still have a problem. At some point, two teams have to go down, or one team goes down with no promotion (for Ealing).
And then, depending on what happens at Worcester (at this time they are gone completely), more than one club will be relegated from the Championship to keep that at 12.
This is the real problem. Everything needs to be sorted out asap, but with the Warriors situation unresolved how can it be? I suspect that whatever the outcome there will be clubs who are very unhappy one way or another.
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Sarries didn't really keep the titles in the eyes of the club rugby public, to be fair. Nobody thinks 'winners' when their name is mentioned, it is instead 'cheats'.
I don't think we can draw a line and move forward with us until we find out what went on, exactly. We need to see what went on and really who is to blame before just moving on.
More to the point, one of these is guilt by a club en masse one isn't. Everyone at the salary cheating club on a to wage would have had a huge inkling that there was fiscal cheating going on. Maybe some at the lower end wouldn't, most would it is
basic maths. Our situation is different, (a) cheating is worse than pretty much any fiscal shenanigans that occurred and (b) less subjectively there is no way a player or coach would have an idea on boardroom level shenanigans on any board. Roughly put Joe L or Dan R would not have had a clue about what was coming. If they dud they would not have been there. Farrell, Vinupolas et al would have been well aware of their pay and would have known that Jamie George wasn't just working there for the pies and lunch money and Daly for a new briefcase.
So not really comparable or relevant. We will be a new club with an old name. The one thing that needs to be cleared up is - how much was Chris Holland responsible for in terms of decisions and who is to blame for what occurred. That does need to be established before a line can be drawn as he is involved with the new bid.
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Hmm. Holland's situation - you would hope he was just a bit part player but I doubt it. If/when DR finally speaks out, if ever, we might get more of an idea. For now he is Saviour No 1 and will be supported.
From the shock and tears that we have heard from and about our former players I think it can be rightly assumed they knew diddly squat about the severity of the situation. Reading Ben Harris's interview posted yesterday should remove doubts.
On the EAs - the have been found to be serial cheats. The first time, along with the team just bringing in an expensive marquee and one other, it was agreed to be swept under the carpet. The second time they refused to open their books. Now we are told everyone has to open their books so where have all the nefarious dealings disappeared to from their accounts. Creative hiding could be suggested. Let's not also forget the recent long term cheating by the Leicester Cheetahs. Five full years to have been found to have overspent the cap by an amount just under the point where points are deducted. Five years! That is designed cheating on an epic scale.
Forgive and forget - nah. I have EA friends but we now avoid the subject completely
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CH was one of the Board who voted yes to the £60m bid that DR vetoed by abstaining which would have saved the club and employees, so I think he has the best interests of Wasps at heart and has found the only way to keep the club going.
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The second time they refused to open their books. Now we are told everyone has to open their books...
Oh the irony of that! Unfortunately PRL was a toothless and spineless organisation and having been dragged across the coals by DCMS now want to change that. That explains why they are now coming down harder on enforcing rules.
When Saracens refused to open their books PRL should have said you will be relegated until you do. Instead they acquiesced to the power that Sarries wielded and only made it 1 year. That Sarries were willing to take the drop it's obvious that the degree of cheating was enormous.
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On Holland my reading is that the dye was cast before he had any meaningful involvement. The initial debt was too much for us to ever shake off. We had a chance in a supportive and settled wider economic climate. Unfortunately what we got was a pandemic, a war and a general perfect storm of instability. I may be wrong but I think Holland would have joined in the midst of this and as such would just have been putting out fires where possible.
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Plus 1
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Quick check on Companies house, Chris Holland joined the board on the 19th June 2017
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This was the announcement in Aug 2017
Christopher Holland has joined the Wasps Board as Non-Executive Director.
Holland has more than 30 years’ experience in Law Enforcement and Risk Management and has held senior and board level appointments in the MOD (Military of Defence) and FTSE 100 companies including Marks & Spencer, Sainsburys and B&Q, as well as regulated Financial Institutions where he was responsible for Security, Profit Protection, Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery.
Through his managed companies, Holland has also been the sole European supplier of security services to international companies; particularly in the retail and financial sectors.
Wasps CEO Nick Eastwood said: “As a club and as a venue, the safety and security of our staff, partners, supporters and Ricoh Arena visitors continue to be a priority.
“We are keen for the Board to contain experts from a wide range of fields that will benefit the business as a whole. Chris is one of the country’s leading authorities in security and the development and implementation of plans and procedures for the protection of People, Property, Profit and Brand.
“We already have strong security protocols in place at the Ricoh Arena, but it is important to continually evolve and improve and we are looking forward to working with Chris to ensure we have the most effective risk management procedures for our venue and IT infrastructure.”
Speaking about the new role, Chris Holland said: “I am excited by the opportunity of adding my professional support to a passionate brand and business, and look forward to helping Wasps create a Centre of excellence in Security & Risk Management at the Ricoh Arena.”
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By the end he was Chief Operating Officer, so second to Steve Vaughan in the running of the business.
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To be honest I'm not sure how much of a say Stephen Vaughan got on some of the "big" decisions. He did some good Commercial Deals, was a good promoter of the club and a decent guy in my opinion.
However (as with vetoing the bid and his repayments from the bond) I think Derek did what Derek wanted to and as he owned 98% (via Moonstone I think) then who could stop him?
I have been told that Derek owed money to Chris Holland and the Training Ground situation may have been part of that maybe as a settlement?
I've not met Chris Holland, but do have a business contact who has dealt with him in the past and says that he is a decent guy so unless I know any different, I'd take that at face value as being genuine.
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This was the announcement in Aug 2017
Christopher Holland has joined the Wasps Board as Non-Executive Director.
Holland has more than 30 years’ experience in Law Enforcement and Risk Management and has held senior and board level appointments in the MOD (Military of Defence) and FTSE 100 companies including Marks & Spencer, Sainsburys and B&Q, as well as regulated Financial Institutions where he was responsible for Security, Profit Protection, Business Continuity and Disaster Recovery.
Through his managed companies, Holland has also been the sole European supplier of security services to international companies; particularly in the retail and financial sectors.
Wasps CEO Nick Eastwood said: “As a club and as a venue, the safety and security of our staff, partners, supporters and Ricoh Arena visitors continue to be a priority.
“We are keen for the Board to contain experts from a wide range of fields that will benefit the business as a whole. Chris is one of the country’s leading authorities in security and the development and implementation of plans and procedures for the protection of People, Property, Profit and Brand.
“We already have strong security protocols in place at the Ricoh Arena, but it is important to continually evolve and improve and we are looking forward to working with Chris to ensure we have the most effective risk management procedures for our venue and IT infrastructure.”
Speaking about the new role, Chris Holland said: “I am excited by the opportunity of adding my professional support to a passionate brand and business, and look forward to helping Wasps create a Centre of excellence in Security & Risk Management at the Ricoh Arena.”
Sounds as though he is well used to wearing a hard hat!
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Still not satisfied that Wasps have left Coventry then. Does he really think that CRFC or Moseley are going to lose one supporter to Wasps because they are a tenant in Solihull? I am also sick of all the bleating over the years. I thought that might have come to an end, but sadly not.
He is the CEO of CRFC so he is speaking for the club. On that basis he can shove any interest I may have had in attending that fixture up his Butts. We are clearly not welcome.
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It seems Mr Johnston believes the Championship is HIS league or CRFC's league. He mentions it more than once. It's not his league or his club's league at all. Does he seriously believe the RFU must consult him for his approval before relegating a premiership team into the Championship? And our relegation is definitely not done as a helping hand out of RFU favouritism.
It should be pointed out that London Irish have moved 5 miles down the road from the Stoop. Same distance as from CBS Arena to Butt's Park. Didn't hear any complaints from Quins.
And if we move to Solihull that's only 2 miles closer to Butts Park than Saracens are from London Irish.
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To be honest I'm not sure how much of a say Stephen Vaughan got on some of the "big" decisions. He did some good Commercial Deals, was a good promoter of the club and a decent guy in my opinion.
I think a lot of the work on those deals was done by Adam Benson the Chief Commercial Officer.
I only ever met Steve in passing, though he did fail to turn up for a meeting he'd insisted we had. I drove to the EPIC from Hampshire to find he wasn't going to be there after all, when a phone call or ema would have resolved it. So I'm less than convinced he was the all round good guy he has tried very hard to paint himself as.
However (as with vetoing the bid and his repayments from the bond) I think Derek did what Derek wanted to and as he owned 98% (via Moonstone I think) then who could stop him?
I don't know any of the details of the bid, but I know Derek was pouring his own money into the company until the very end.
I have been told that Derek owed money to Chris Holland and the Training Ground situation may have been part of that maybe as a settlement?
Derek? Or Wasps?
I've not met Chris Holland, but do have a business contact who has dealt with him in the past and says that he is a decent guy so unless I know any different, I'd take that at face value as being genuine.
I've met him a few times. He seemed like decent bloke. I'm very happy to assume the best until there's reason to do otherwise. But I'd be very wary of anyone trying to paint him as not having been part of the old establishment.
It's very easy to point the finger at Derek for all the issues with the club, but that’s clearly not accurate, and his main problem from what I can see is that he wasn't personally rich enough to keep bailing the club out. He's lost more money than anyone out of this.
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I agree about Adam he was a very decent guy and did a lot of hard and good work for the club. I know he was absolutely gutted when it all fell apart at the end.
I was always a 100% supporter of Derek, but I feel that he needs to speak out and tell us all the truth and then we can make out own judgements on the facts as we all trusted him.
I don't disagree that he probably didn't have enough money in the end to ride it through, but if wrong or ill informed decisions were made as well then it doesn't matter how much money you have, it will eventually run out at some stage.
I still think that Covid and the subsequent Economic/War situation is the main reason for Wasps problems as without that we wouldn't have taken on even more debt and would (most likely) have been able to refinance the bond as well.
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I have never met Adam but completely agree with Colonel Wasp's view of Derek and the financial situation. I cannot see Derek as a hard-hearted baddie as I think he's anything but, but maybe wrong guidance was suggested and wrong decisions made. Hindsight is wonderful but foresight would be a great deal better. Right now we have to trust Chris Holland; we have no other option. The Legends must have the Club's best interests at heart, considering their Club histories.
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It is easy to point fingers at Derek, and that is 100 pc Derek's fault for saying nothing whilst stories pop out not painting him in a good light, and the small fact that the club just went bust with the loss of 167 jobs.
When the Titanic sinks, the captain needs to explain why it wasn't his fault.