Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on September 17, 2022, 01:35:39 PM
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First home game of the season.
We will have to be aware of the dodgy footy pitch the whingers have left us 😀
Let us hope the head doctor has worked his magic where it is needed.
Some woeful driving today but almost there.
COYW
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Note - the new South Entrance isn't an entrance unless you are clubhouse bound.
Big Q for the shop.
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It will be interesting to see what the crowd is today. Talking with another ex ST holder this morning, many of the Adams Park gang have given up going.
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Afternoon all from a very nice little motorhome stop in the north of the Black Forest.
We’re settled in for the night, I’ve checked Google cast is working from my iPad, I’ve logged in and checked I can see the match on PRTV and I appear to have a strong enough 4G signal and there’s a few nice cold German beers in the fridge.
Now all I need is for the boys to play to their potential for 80 minutes to cap ff what has been a good day so far.
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As an ex AP STH we are here and with half an hour to go it is difficult to tell. I think there is a Netball match on or just completed, a fun zone, the New clubhouse and a stonking big Q for the new shop. Beautiful day here, pitch looking good and Bristol looking well up for it.
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It will be interesting to see what the crowd is today. Talking with another ex ST holder this morning, many of the Adams Park gang have given up going.
15 minutes before kick off, car park c very quiet, pretty sparse inside so far.
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It will be interesting to see what the crowd is today. Talking with another ex ST holder this morning, many of the Adams Park gang have given up going.
15 minutes before kick off, car park c very quiet, pretty sparse inside so far.
Maybe they're all in the Q for the shop ;)
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It will be interesting to see what the crowd is today. Talking with another ex ST holder this morning, many of the Adams Park gang have given up going.
15 minutes before kick off, car park c very quiet, pretty sparse inside so far.
Maybe they're all in the Q for the shop ;)
Or maybe the car park c entry needing payment is actually working!
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Is that Flats on the mic on PRTV?
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8k +
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Stookie in the box with Flats.
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Attacking shape nice, scrum not so much.
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Attacking shape nice, scrum not so much.
"Not so much" being generous, scrum penalties undoing anything good and giving Bristol good attacking situations.
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Our scrum is our Achilles Heal.
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Bristol have targeted Alfie’s ball retention.
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Listening to the online commentary and I keep hearing "knock on".
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Moderately towards dire.
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Dickson doesn't seem quite right.
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Our skills in intense situations are letting us down.
It’s our impulsive decision making that needs some serious work.
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Dickson doesn't seem quite right.
Even he doesn't seem convinced by himself, especially that last one in the second half!
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Although we are 5-10 down to a Bristol side that are retaining possession better, we are not out of this game.
If things click…we could run away with things.
We have that capability.
But dropped balls, scrum penalties and a few poor decisions are holding us back.
If the half time team talk is good.
We change things in the front row.
And just keep the ball in contact…then we can do this.
Bristol have made twice as many tackles as we have.
That tells some of the story.
If….we can create a tight, reliable platform at scrum time…our fortunes in this game should shift dramatically.
We’re not far off.
Typical early season game.
You just wish the season proper started in another week or two.
But the potential is definitely there.
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Two Spink mistakes in attack plus the dropped restart, two Alfie mistakes, Kibirige dropped one, Crossdale knocks on a kick, a few scrum penalties and we’re not surprisingly struggling a bit for territory.
When we have the ball we’re looking good, making easy metres - same old though, we just can’t retain it for long enough before we make another mistake
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We really need to stop just running into contact, it’s just too easy for Bristol defence. We don’t look like we have a plan.
Knocks on way too much. Our scrum is poor
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Games lacking a spark for either side. Seem to be on the wrong side of dickson that half. Hoping we are pacing ourselves to play the full 80.
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Although we are 5-10 down to a Bristol side that are retaining possession better, we are not out of this game.
If things click…we could run away with things.
We have that capability.
But dropped balls, scrum penalties and a few poor decisions are holding us back.
If the half time team talk is good.
We change things in the front row.
And just keep the ball in contact…then we can do this.
Bristol have made twice as many tackles as we have.
That tells some of the story.
If….we can create a tight, reliable platform at scrum time…our fortunes in this game should shift dramatically.
We’re not far off.
Typical early season game.
You just wish the season proper started in another week or two.
But the potential is definitely there.
Agree, set piece is key, think that has been discussed in other threads previously!
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Hislop too weak in the scrum. Time for Tom West? Particularly if Sink, with a dicky neck, stays on.
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Basic skills. Catch it. Pass it. Catch it.
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I said in one of the other threads that I thought Tom was better than Alfie at 8 because of his ability to hold on to the ball while fending off defenders. Alfie lost it twice, admittedly he’s done a lot of caries.
Spink has made some mistakes, I wonder if he’s getting ahead of himself? He’s got lots of talent but maybe needs a couple of rest weeks.
All round a bit of when they’re good they’re good, when they’re not good it’s utter rubbish.
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Oh, and some amazing runs from Crossdale.
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TCUP & execution.
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I said in one of the other threads that I thought Tom was better than Alfie at 8 because of his ability to hold on to the ball while fending off defenders. Alfie lost it twice, admittedly he’s done a lot of caries.
Spink has made some mistakes, I wonder if he’s getting ahead of himself? He’s got lots of talent but maybe needs a couple of rest weeks.
All round a bit of when they’re good they’re good, when they’re not good it’s utter rubbish.
Spink keeps offering himself on that hard flat line much like the one against Gloucs last week, a very difficult one but at least he keeps offering and not hiding as it hasn't gone to plan so far
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Fair point.
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Hislop too weak in the scrum. Time for Tom West? Particularly if Sink, with a dicky neck, stays on.
We're a long way from what we thought we'd be in the forwards with all the new signings.
However, we have to accept that Hislop is 4th choice, and you're not going to be dominant with your 4th choice prop
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Dickson doesn't seem quite right.
Even he doesn't seem convinced by himself, especially that last one in the second half!
Ref mic come on for 2nd half might learnt a bit more from him now.
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We struggle to shift mindset quickly when our attack suddenly turns to defence.
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Hold onto the bloody ball, what a shocking kick. Spink not having his best game
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Would like to see someone like Carr come on to replace Alfie.
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We're in the shit now.
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8-20
Not looking good.
Alfie is not an 8. Please change.
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I thought I saw a couple of forward passes for that last try.
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I thought I saw a couple of forward passes for that last try.
TMO checked, he was happy
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Listening on the radio and it sounds dire, knock on, drop the ball, lose the ball etc. Have we still got a 'skills coach'??
Lots of huff and puff but lose all the game changing pressure points in the red zone in defence and attack. A long season ahead..
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Absolutely pathetic how many times do we need to drop the ball. Seriously how can you not hold onto the ball. Hold onto the bloody ball
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16 handling errors so far. It feels like more.
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This is bad because Bristol are not good.
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I'm almost always an optimist and I can't defend this.
Tom Willis has been fantastic, elsewhere, awful.
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Same old same old. The scary thing is Bristol aren’t any good
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Worst performance under Blackett...so far. Time for change.
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Can’t wait to hear Lee’s assessment of this garbage. We are disjointed and lacking any idea, poor in all aspects of the game in terms of execution and intensity
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16 handling errors so far. It feels like more.
Felt like more to me too .....lots more >:(
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That was awful.
Barbeary was totally ineffective and you can see that as soon as Tom Willis was given more responsibility we looked good and made metres.
This week Porter was playing well and Dobby didn’t add anything.
Spink should have come off for Mills and not Odendaal and not sure why Crossdale got taken off either unless he had a knock.
Embarrassing at home really, Bristol were not a threat at all, 18 handling errors, most leading to turnovers and lost territory, just not good enough
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That was dreadful.
Own worst enemies, and as someone else said, Bristol weren't even good.
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thats just cost me £5 to be come depressed, I could have watched the tv news for the same result.
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Sam Spink isn't there yet. Shouldn't start next game. Why do we drop the ball so much. Can't even blame the weather.
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Well I really don’t know what to say about that awful performance. I wasn’t happy with the selection before the game and we looked all over place, no game plan the same old running into a set defensive line, pathetic
Lee is starting to be a big problem as we do have a lot of good players, especially the Willis brothers who are unlikely to hang around playing this rubbish. We are a poorly coached team making stupid selection mistakes, so so bad today
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Sam Spink isn't there yet. Shouldn't start next game. Why do we drop the ball so much. Can't even blame the weather.
Yep a few too many errors today, think it could well be Mills and Odendaal in the centres next week.
Odogwu possibly in line for some gametime outside Hartley on Tuesday?
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Just logged in, working in my garage, totally missed the game. Did I miss all the exciting and brilliant play by Wasps? Did we cut our all the dropped balls, silly plays, and all the penalties?
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Just logged in, working in my garage, totally missed the game. Did I miss all the exciting and brilliant play by Wasps? Did we cut our all the dropped balls, silly plays, and all the penalties?
I think we did cut out the penalties, even won some at scrum time when Hislop was on.
This was mainly because we weren’t actually really under any pressure at any stage to give them away. We just knocked on every time we had the ball and gave it back to them. They were just not as bad as we were
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I've defended Blackett last season, and suggested that he's now had a transfer window in which to make the improvements he required.
Therefore this season is when we should be seeing some improvements.
We're not yet.
I'm not ready to give up, and I'm willing to give him more time in case this is really season blues.... But it doesn't feel any better than last season yet.
If he's not able to improve things after bringing in numerous new players, then how are we supposed to expect him to be able to improve things farther down the line
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It's not about bringing in good players. We already have good players, have had from the day Lee took over.
The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.
The coach's job is to take professional players and make them into a team. It'd be really nice if they tried that for a change.
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It's not about bringing in good players. We already have good players, have had from the day Lee took over.
The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.
The coach's job is to take professional players and make them into a team. It'd be really nice if they tried that for a change.
I agree.. it's not the players.
What I meant was that when he first came in, we started winning immediately.
Maybe it was his leadership, or maybe they were rallying together after what had happened to Dai.
After the covid break, all games were pretty open and we adapted quickly.
There next season is when it went wrong.
It was Lee's first experience of having to deal with significant problems as the head honcho at a top level club.
He will have learnt a lot since then, and he's now had time to do whatever he feels is necessary including bringing in whatever players he feels he needs.
If he still can't get us winning and playing well, then I'd be starting to think that he's not able to at all
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The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.
Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.
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The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.
Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.
Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.
While it's easy to say that the team don't have basic skills, the reality is that it's a minor thing that can easily change.... Often a confidence thing
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The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.
Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.
Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.
I'm pretty sure that is the correct assumption.
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Home! That was beyond crap. Tom is our No 8. Full stop.
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Yes, beyond frustrating. I spent some time tracking our wingers live. Bassett his normal industrial self but Kibirige - without being unkind I was lost for words. We’ve got to play Mehson or an academy prospect going forward.
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I didn't watch the game. Didn't even follow progress on Twitter or whatever. Saw the resulting score. Comments here suggest I simply avoid the full match replay and/or highlights, and hope for better next week.
Sounds like all the usual suspects.
Lack of an on field leader (Joe)
Kibirige performing Quiet Quitting
Handling errors and dodgy offloads
Aimless, non-tactical kicking
Team of individuals
For me, right now, we have only one true captain, who is Brad, but he is off injured. I have seen all the other 'names' (like Dobbie) in action as captain and have been underwhelmed.
Odogwu or Mehson should be on, not Kibirige
Goodness knows how you program positional awareness and the ability to catch a ball that is not 100% perfect
The kicking is down to the scrum half, full back and fly half. It is woefully inaccurate and there seems to be no talent there. At their ages, it is too late. This is made at Junior level (U16-U18). No hope unless we buy in a kicker. That will cost a lot of money. We could have saved ourselves that cost by keeping Jimmy, but hey ho, that is what it is. Trouble is, we really aren't in the market to replace SH, FH or full back. So those guys need to spend hours upon hours getting better. Fast.
Teamwork is down to the coaches and the captain.
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It makes no difference if Brad is Captain.
Just having him on the pitch is sufficient. He will say what he feels is required whether he is officially the captain or not.
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The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.
Hang on, that’s not quite true/fair is it. During that lockdown season where we were playing multiple games a week he said that he was getting the team to focus on our strengths; counter-attacking from turnovers and unstructured play.
One of the big differences (between them and now) I think we responded to that goes relatively unspoken is the lack of contact training during the week because of the games.
Despite the historic rivalry, I think there’s a big similarity between us and Quins in terms of playing DNA.
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I must admit I’m losing patience with the coaching set up but equally to say it’s not about the players is bizarre. We’re not talking about complex, intricate routines, we’re talking about catching the ball. Not attempting miracle offloads. Not trying to pass out of the back of the hand. Not knocking on ad infinitum. Not just serving up one up runners. Not box kicking straight to them etc etc. Pro players should just be better than that.
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It's not about bringing in good players. We already have good players, have had from the day Lee took over.
The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.
The coach's job is to take professional players and make them into a team. It'd be really nice if they tried that for a change.
Bang on. 2nd paragraph in particular.
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I must admit I’m losing patience with the coaching set up but equally to say it’s not about the players is bizarre. We’re not talking about complex, intricate routines, we’re talking about catching the ball. Not attempting miracle offloads. Not trying to pass out of the back of the hand. Not knocking on ad infinitum. Not just serving up one up runners. Not box kicking straight to them etc etc. Pro players should just be better than that.
I'm saying that it's not about getting new players in.
Launchbury can catch
Jack can catch
They can all catch, they can all pass, they can all do the basics to an extremely high standard.
They're just not doing it at the moment, of for large parts of last season.
Therefore the questions are why, and how does someone change that?
As much as it pains me to say it, there have been other clubs where a change of coaching team is like flicking a switch and created an elite team from something that resembled my old 4th team.
Similarly there have been coaching changes that haven't improved anything.
Lee needs to work out what is required to get our guys playing to their ability. If he can do that, then he proves that he has what it takes to move us forward and potentially solve future problems too
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The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.
Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.
+1 to your first paragraph.
And in general agreement with your second. I think Alfie is a Number 8, but he’s young and still learning the ropes.
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The impression I get is that everyone is just trying that little bit too hard. The game does not have to be played at a rate of knots. Speed is fine but it has to be kept a little in check.
Also, Alfie is not an 8. Tom W is our best 8 and that is where he should start. The experiment needs to stop......NOW.
Agree with that too.
It sounds like if we hadn't kept knocking on, we'd have scored a bucket load.
While it's easy to say that the team don't have basic skills, the reality is that it's a minor thing that can easily change.... Often a confidence thing
+1
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The only success we've had under him was when he openly admitted his "coaching" was telling them to play their own game.
Hang on, that’s not quite true/fair is it. During that lockdown season where we were playing multiple games a week he said that he was getting the team to focus on our strengths; counter-attacking from turnovers and unstructured play.
We did a lot better then I agree. But the players weren't training much at all. It was mainly recovery, fitness, and analysis.
So in essence can we reasonably say that the less the coaching team tells the players what to do the better they perform?
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So in essence can we reasonably say that the less the coaching team tells the players what to do the better they perform?
I suspect so, yes.
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It is simple, if you try a miracle offload again you will be taken off. Don’t care if it’s in the 1st minute you will be off.
The players are trying to hard as they are so poorly coached, they is no basic game plan. The players can’t just go to a basic way of playing as it doesn’t seem to be drilled into them at training.
A professional rugby team should be able to do basics in their sleep, just go through simple phases in training so it’s just a natural thing for the players. I just don’t understand why Lee isn’t telling the players to stop trying the miracle offload.
Also play your best players in their best position. This is a professional sport not interested in upsetting players because they’re not picked. If you want to be picked play better
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There is little difference in age between Alfie and Tom Willis. Alfie is 22 on October 5 and Tom is 23 until January 18.
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Conversely there is a wealth of difference between Tom and Alfie when it comes to skills at 8. Alfie just doesn't cut the mustard at that position. I don't wish to be harsh on Alfie but I do wonder if he plays for the team or for his personal glory, ie don't hug the ball - pass the ruddy thing. The player I see as the future for Wasps is Tom. I can't see Alfie as a Captain, tho' I can see that he is a brilliantly fantastic player. I would despair if we lost Tom through our own stupidity.
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I really don't think Alfie is playing for personal glory.
He's had lots of success in being tackles, not just at age grade rugby, but also senior rugby.
You want your players to back themselves, but you also want them to have good decision making.
Alfie is backing himself, but also needs to improve his decision making.
I do wonder why Alfie isn't seen as a 6, as well as an 8. Most 8s can do a job at 6 as there is crossover in the skills.
Tom makes the best decisions off the best of the scrum, Alfie can be destructive with the ball in open play.
Alfie would still get his hands on the ball, but wouldn't have to worry about scrum control or making the right decision of when to pick and go
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I do wonder why Alfie isn't seen as a 6, as well as an 8. Most 8s can do a job at 6 as there is crossover in the skills.
Tom makes the best decisions off the best of the scrum, Alfie can be destructive with the ball in open play.
Alfie would still get his hands on the ball, but wouldn't have to worry about scrum control or making the right decision of when to pick and go
Both Alfie and Tom weigh much the same yet Tom is 3 inches taller. Apart from anything else, Tom is (IMO) a better physical fit at 8 than Alfie. He is better in the lineout also. I don't think Alf offers anything in the lineout.
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6878 bums on seats
According to RiL
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6878 bums on seats
According to RiL
I noticed that as well. Gates seem down all round in the GP.
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Very very few Bristol fans compared to last year too. Every club is suffering from reduced crowds, Wasps unique circumstances are making things doubly tough.
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RE Tom Willis https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/1572160031344189447?s=20&t=UP6bLoCvKlEYW_FzkbyV7A
"10 - Tom Willis beat 10 defenders against Bristol, more than any other player in Round 2 of the Premiership and the most by a forward in a
@premrugby
match since Willis himself beat 13 against Quins in February 2022. Stinging."
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6878 bums on seats
According to RiL
That's barely 20% capacity, and season ticket holders could bring a friend for free on Saturday too.
How many STHs do we have now?
How many of the rest were paid for?
I know we'll probably never know the answers to these questions, but it is a massive concern. The atmosphere on Saturday was non-existent, and can't help the players.
Wasps fans broadly fit into 2 categories:
1: Long standing supporters who continue to travel up to 200 miles/4 hours round trip for a home game.
2: Relatively recently converted Coventry locals who aren't as invested in the club. (With apologies to some who I'm sure don't fit that description, but this remains a fact for many.)
Unfortunately both of these categories are susceptible to disinterest when the match day experience stops being fun. Poor catering provision/service; long queues due to lack of open turnstiles; no fan village or any pre/post match activity; lack of atmosphere; and of course disappointing performances and results on the pitch. I certainly went home on Saturday wondering more than I ever have since the move to Coventry whether it was actually worth the time and expense.
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The product on the pitch has to be considered as a contributory factor, though.
I imagine any Wasps fan who made it to the game on Saturday would be considering the wisdom of doing it again, so poor were we. An upturn in performance - just doing the bloody basics right - will draw in more "casual fans" who won't necessarily turn up week in, week out regardless.
Also, I know it goes against all financial sense, and the salary cap is a blocker, but a big name signing puts bums on seats. A Radradra, a Piutau, a Genge...
The atmosphere will never be great in a stadium which, when all is said and done, is too big for a Prem Rugby club.
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6878 bums on seats
According to RiL
That's barely 20% capacity, and season ticket holders could bring a friend for free on Saturday too.
How many STHs do we have now?
How many of the rest were paid for?
I know we'll probably never know the answers to these questions, but it is a massive concern. The atmosphere on Saturday was non-existent, and can't help the players.
Wasps fans broadly fit into 2 categories:
1: Long standing supporters who continue to travel up to 200 miles/4 hours round trip for a home game.
2: Relatively recently converted Coventry locals who aren't as invested in the club. (With apologies to some who I'm sure don't fit that description, but this remains a fact for many.)
Unfortunately both of these categories are susceptible to disinterest when the match day experience stops being fun. Poor catering provision/service; long queues due to lack of open turnstiles; no fan village or any pre/post match activity; lack of atmosphere; and of course disappointing performances and results on the pitch. I certainly went home on Saturday wondering more than I ever have since the move to Coventry whether it was actually worth the time and expense.
Add to that the increased cost of living as further dis-incentive.
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Slim ... agree with your last three entries above absolutely. BaGS - yes, Mr W and I went on Saturday, and we will go to the next Home match (maybe pus another) but sadly not to Friday's match. Too many steps in Bath; wheelchair doesn't like them!
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For 'pus' (euch) read 'plus'.
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6878 bums on seats
According to RiL
That's barely 20% capacity, and season ticket holders could bring a friend for free on Saturday too.
How many STHs do we have now?
How many of the rest were paid for?
I know we'll probably never know the answers to these questions, but it is a massive concern. The atmosphere on Saturday was non-existent, and can't help the players.
Wasps fans broadly fit into 2 categories:
1: Long standing supporters who continue to travel up to 200 miles/4 hours round trip for a home game.
2: Relatively recently converted Coventry locals who aren't as invested in the club. (With apologies to some who I'm sure don't fit that description, but this remains a fact for many.)
Unfortunately both of these categories are susceptible to disinterest when the match day experience stops being fun. Poor catering provision/service; long queues due to lack of open turnstiles; no fan village or any pre/post match activity; lack of atmosphere; and of course disappointing performances and results on the pitch. I certainly went home on Saturday wondering more than I ever have since the move to Coventry whether it was actually worth the time and expense.
Not quite right. STH’s can bring a friend to one of the four opening fixtures. The atmosphere felt fine to me - when there was something to cheer. That was the problem. Head’s disappeared into hands every time we dropped it.