Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: RogerE on January 21, 2019, 11:32:20 AM
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A don't usually take too much notice of many of the posts on the PR forum, as there are some real idiots that post on there. However my attention was brought to the one linked below (posted by someone called Mr. Very Popular)
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88536&start=320#p5866117
(http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88536&start=320#p5866117)
IF this is true it is really worrying, and why would Costello be saying this anyway?
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When you look at the very poor level of written English and use of profanity on that thread, I would disregard it as rubbish being spouted by buffoons (they will have to look up buffoons)....There is also lots of boorish comments that highlight the posters as individual who put very little thought into what they are writing.
I don't think there is a toxic atmosphere, I think the issue is a hell of a lot of injuries and unsettling player movements. The club will get past this rough patch and move forward.
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Well for a start he could spell the man's name correctly.
IF this is true it is really worrying, and why would Costello be saying this anyway?
Probably trying to stage a coup. Andy would say he's flouncing again.
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The interesting thing will be how Andy manages this "news".
If Costello is being ignored, then how can he be to blame for Wasps slump?
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The post itself is not worrying.
A 'Boss' is just that. They are always appointed. It is how they handle the people under them that makes the difference. We all of us know something is wrong in the training and coaching. I may not have played for donkeys years, but I can still smell when things aren't right.
The team, as it currently is, is obviously been told by their coaches to play it a certain way. Even more clearly, the backs don't buy in to that; they don't believe it will work. When Cips and Gops played together, you could see they mixed it up and probably did stuff they were told not to. I suspect THAT was at the hear of why Cips moved on, and why he went to Glaws (they allow him to breathe).
Look at where Lima kicks the ball for every start/restart. He has clearly been told to do that. He clearly doesn't want to, but he is doing what he is told. That's what it is to be employed. If you don't like like the way it is being done, leave. And so, many are.
It doesn't mean what they (the coaches and players) are being told to do is all wrong (but I suspect it is too rigid and maybe at times wrong). It doesn't mean that the individual coaches ideas are better or worse. But, toxic is what the atmosphere would be. It needs some senior heads to have words, but we all know how Dai would react to that. If he has lost the changing room, he has to go. Derek should be quietly talking to some of the lads or Dai.
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The post itself is not worrying.
A 'Boss' is just that. They are always appointed. It is how they handle the people under them that makes the difference. We all of us know something is wrong in the training and coaching. I may not have played for donkeys years, but I can still smell when things aren't right.
The team, as it currently is, is obviously been told by their coaches to play it a certain way. Even more clearly, the backs don't buy in to that; they don't believe it will work. When Cips and Gops played together, you could see they mixed it up and probably did stuff they were told not to. I suspect THAT was at the hear of why Cips moved on, and why he went to Glaws (they allow him to breathe).
Look at where Lima kicks the ball for every start/restart. He has clearly been told to do that. He clearly doesn't want to, but he is doing what he is told. That's what it is to be employed. If you don't like like the way it is being done, leave. And so, many are.
It doesn't mean what they (the coaches and players) are being told to do is all wrong (but I suspect it is too rigid and maybe at times wrong). It doesn't mean that the individual coaches ideas are better or worse. But, toxic is what the atmosphere would be. It needs some senior heads to have words, but we all know how Dai would react to that. If he has lost the changing room, he has to go. Derek should be quietly talking to some of the lads or Dai.
That all seems fair - I didn't get that feel until after Danny left and suggested the system was too rigid - which given how they played at times was a surprise. ITs probably why Danny has made an impact at Glaws as I believe he essentially coaches the backs and the benefit for 12T and others has been apparent, even in a v short time.
He may have lost the changing room, and perhaps we need to think why we've got to this point. As fans, part of being a Wasps is the unconventional play and if Lima really is being told where to kick off to, then its time for a change.
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Wow, there is a lot of assumptions in there. I don't know how Dai would react for a start. How do we know Sops doesn't like kicking it like that every start, how do we know Cips and Gops were doing stuff they were told not to, and that Cips has any more freedom at Glos?
We do know we have a lot of injuries in key areas. We do know we spend up to the salary cap and that leaves little room for big pay raises that other clubs may have, we do know that Cips was waiting on England before making a decision and we know a few of our players missed pre-season, and have had very little rest.
We don't know the relationship between Dai and the coaches / players other than an unsubstantiated anonymous post on a message board. Now a bit of speculation on my part. From what I have heard of Dai (and that is very little) he is a bit of a control freak and so much more likely to be in the coaches ears all the time, rather than just texting / emailing instructions and then not getting involved.
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Few things here, first the initial post. Chinese whispers and exaggeration from the Irish, could easily have turned "Yeah, it's not a great atmosphere at the moment, Dai has just texted me about how we could try and improve the defence." into the post.
Enough with Cips already. He wasn't committing to a club until he knew his England status. Wasps weren't willing to wait that long, Glaws were willing to sell Billy Burns down the river at the last minute to take him (on a much lower wage is what's strongly rumoured).
How do you know that Lima doesn't want to kick the ball there? This is a genuine question btw, I'm not at the games, I can't see, but I've no idea how someone could read that.
Recently there have been so many dropped balls, that simply shouldn't have been dropped, that we've missed out on a lot of points. How many times did we string together some great phases against Leinster, just to have someone fumble or have the ball ripped? I think we're doing well, but some players are flatout under performing (Daly), and the rest seem to be just trying to force it a bit too much, and get that little bit too excited each time it feels like we're about to click.
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If things are as toxic and inflexible as some here suggest, I would have expected Lima to have had a quiet word in the ears of the two new ex AB signings and give them a heads up. As they have both signed then either they took absolutely no notice or, IMO more likely, he was complimentary and encouraged them to join.
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Two things. A DoR telling the coaches what he wants from them and then leaving them to get on with it doesn't sound like a massively negative thing to me.
And the recent discussions of Dai from former players and TV pundits all say how he is among the most popular leaders in the GP.
So my instinct is that this is bullshit, but if not perhaps the fault lies with Costello and not Dai?
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If things are as toxic and inflexible as some here suggest, I would have expected Lima to have had a quiet word in the ears of the two new ex AB signings and give them a heads up. As they have both signed then either they took absolutely no notice or, IMO more likely, he was complimentary and encouraged them to join.
This is exactly what I was going to post.
If things are "toxic", you don't bring your friends in.
There was also a comment about how Dai doesn't interact with the coaches at all.
That seems very odd too.
I haven't been to a game for a while, but Dai was always on the pitch pre-game chatting to Blackett and co.
In addition, as far as I'm aware, Dai is still doing a lot of coaching himself, which surely means he's on the training pitch at the same time as the other guys.
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How do you know that Lima doesn't want to kick the ball there? This is a genuine question btw, I'm not at the games, I can't see, but I've no idea how someone could read that.
When the rumours started we were singing him, I watched him play down under. He usually dropped the ball within a meter or two of the 10m line, about 5m from touch. Unless I imagining what I saw. Maybe I am.
The advantage of kicking long is that the defenders catch the ball cleanly and form a ruck, or knock it on (not often). From that they generally kick, but as they are outside the 22, it is a long kick down the touch, which gives us the ball back. Except a lot of teams don't do that anymore (but we do). Leinster popped nasty box kicks up over and over, and really caught us out as our wings (Daly especially) are not so good at actually getting that ball. Often, instead, we have Sopoaga there. Give his height, an odd choice, but he does get some of them.
Kick it shorter and you risk a breakout attack. It is the mindset of the coaches. Safety first, or risk for reward?
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Personally, I would have thought that it would/could be advantageous to vary the kicks, both in direction and length. But all should attempt to put the oppo under some sort of pressure. Really shouldn't try to give them an easy out.
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I agree with both those...but that doesn't mean that he disagrees or doesn't want to do that. We just can't assume that from here. Maybe there is a master plan that isn't working, maybe they haven't practised anything else, maybe they are being instructed, maybe we are even worse at the other re-starts, or maybe there isn't the confidence in the side to vary it and they are sticking with the 'tried and tested' even if it isn't working. I'm afraid we cant say if any of these are the reason, or indeed any other reason. The only people who really know are the club and players and they aren't likely to say.
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How do you know that Lima doesn't want to kick the ball there? This is a genuine question btw, I'm not at the games, I can't see, but I've no idea how someone could read that.
When the rumours started we were singing him, I watched him play down under. He usually dropped the ball within a meter or two of the 10m line, about 5m from touch. Unless I imagining what I saw. Maybe I am.
The advantage of kicking long is that the defenders catch the ball cleanly and form a ruck, or knock it on (not often). From that they generally kick, but as they are outside the 22, it is a long kick down the touch, which gives us the ball back. Except a lot of teams don't do that anymore (but we do). Leinster popped nasty box kicks up over and over, and really caught us out as our wings (Daly especially) are not so good at actually getting that ball. Often, instead, we have Sopoaga there. Give his height, an odd choice, but he does get some of them.
Kick it shorter and you risk a breakout attack. It is the mindset of the coaches. Safety first, or risk for reward?
So basically, he used to do it differently, in a more attack minded league, where there's no relegation, no Europe to play for, and the NZ teams tend to dominate their non-NZ opposition regardless? How do you know he wasn't being told by the coaches to do it that way then as well?
For me we don't really have a forward that could threaten on a short kickoff. We don't have a Read or Lawes. We do have some faster backs, who can put pressure on a longer kick, which is what we're doing.
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Irrespective of anything written here or elsewhere, Costello should go sooner rather than later, IMHO. Simply not up to it.
OK, Wasps got screwed when Danny Wilson pulled the plug on us but Dai really should have sorted it better at the time.
WE HAVE NO CREDIBLE DEFENCE COACH. Until we do, we will be in the cacky brown stuff.
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I'm just curious, as I have no experience of these things, but, what should Dai have done to sort it better at the time? I think Leicester have shown there aren't a lot of options available at the moment. Who should he have brought in who was available? Who should we have paid to get out of their contract (assuming this was a viable option anyway)? Maybe Worzle will be available in the summer and fancy Warwickshire? In that case waiting may not have been the worst option after all.
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Everyone keeps saying get Worzle in without stopping to question whether Joe would want to swap life in France for life back in England. Would you want to?
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Given how close to the season starting I am not sure Wasps could have done much with Wilson's defection. They had already brought in Costello to, as far as I can recall, act as a junior part of the team. Wilson changing tack threw a very big spanner in the works. We will never really be told but I suspect there was a quick panic and effort to see who might be available and either nobody or people under contract until a future date. Certainly if there is no announcement between now and the start of next season I think we should be very very worried. However, taking a more postive line (for now), I suspect a change to the coaching team will become apparent later - certainly we operate at a far far smaller level than most.
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Apologies kind of doubling (phone rang).
On Worsley - I think it might buck things up a little but suspect he may be firmly ensconced in the South of France (doesn't he have shares in a vineyard?).
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Ok - I may have been wrong with what I wrote above, but I certainly remember an interview where Glaws or Danny were setting out their freedom to play. Easy to take something out of context. And as it a long time since I played anything approaching a serious game, being 56...how structured are team plans in the Prem?
Obviously they would vary team to team, but I would have guessed the key areas of coaching and structure are the same as the old days, defence, lineout, maul, scrum and box kicking etc, whereas 10 ball in hand, is it mainly pre planned now?
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This thread is hilarious.
Anonymous comments on another message board have brought a load of conjecture, theories, observations & personal animosities being touted as fact.
oh, hang on, its an internet message board, carry on!
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Ok - I may have been wrong with what I wrote above, but I certainly remember an interview where Glaws or Danny were setting out their freedom to play. Easy to take something out of context. And as it a long time since I played anything approaching a serious game, being 56...how structured are team plans in the Prem?
Obviously they would vary team to team, but I would have guessed the key areas of coaching and structure are the same as the old days, defence, lineout, maul, scrum and box kicking etc, whereas 10 ball in hand, is it mainly pre planned now?
Oh no, I'm sure you could be remembering correctly, Ackerrmann is apparently a very player power, independent though etc sort of coach. I just don't think it necessarily says that Wasps is a rigid, fixed place, where no one can express themselves. We've been scoring more tries than almost any other team for seasons, that wouldn't have come from squashing freedom in attack.
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It's because we don't like to talk up how well Wasps are playing (we don't like to be boastful), so far ahead at #1 position in the table, scoring loads of tries, through to the European quarters. We have a squad brimmed with quality and everything is just rosy. But it isn't rosy. So we pick at the growing scab, for want of anything else to do.
We speculate as to what has changed, what has gone wrong, what more is going to go wrong, how to fix it.
After each match we hear the same talk from Dai. What went wrong (often the same thing; penalties, coughing the ball up, missed tackles) and he finishes off with a rallying call that we will get better.
Better how? Fitter? I doubt that fitness is the issue. New 'plays'? No sign of them.
No mention of playing smarter, having the leadership to adapt quickly on the field and being supported in that by the coaches. Maybe we are doing just that, but there are no outward SIGNS of sufficient progress. And we cannot help but wonder why? Most of us are old fogeys here (well, I speak for myself in that) and we have experienced poor management first hand. Not in rugby, but in work. The tell-tale signs are there. Staff turnover will be high, performance will be poor, morale, as measured by rumours of disquiet (not at wasps, but in any organisation) will be heard in whispers, friend to friend. So, when the signs are there, we look upwards, but that might not be the issue
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Irrespective of anything written here or elsewhere, Costello should go sooner rather than later, IMHO. Simply not up to it.
OK, Wasps got screwed when Danny Wilson pulled the plug on us but Dai really should have sorted it better at the time.
So much easier said than done. Yes, Dave Ellis is coaching Kenilworth RFC. He signed for them at the beginning of the season. His name has been bandied about. He is still at Kenilworth. Maybe he is happy where he is. Unlike Wilson maybe he believes in honouring his contract.
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I haven't a clue about this, but can Worzle stay at BB after Brexit?
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Ok - I may have been wrong with what I wrote above, but I certainly remember an interview where Glaws or Danny were setting out their freedom to play. Easy to take something out of context. And as it a long time since I played anything approaching a serious game, being 56...how structured are team plans in the Prem?
Obviously they would vary team to team, but I would have guessed the key areas of coaching and structure are the same as the old days, defence, lineout, maul, scrum and box kicking etc, whereas 10 ball in hand, is it mainly pre planned now?
Oh no, I'm sure you could be remembering correctly, Ackerrmann is apparently a very player power, independent though etc sort of coach. I just don't think it necessarily says that Wasps is a rigid, fixed place, where no one can express themselves. We've been scoring more tries than almost any other team for seasons, that wouldn't have come from squashing freedom in attack.
Morning Raggs, it did seem strange to me, given our history, the way Wade, for example, played, but perhaps it points to a current emphasis, or that Danny didn't get to coach the backs!
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Ok - I may have been wrong with what I wrote above, but I certainly remember an interview where Glaws or Danny were setting out their freedom to play. Easy to take something out of context. And as it a long time since I played anything approaching a serious game, being 56...how structured are team plans in the Prem?
Obviously they would vary team to team, but I would have guessed the key areas of coaching and structure are the same as the old days, defence, lineout, maul, scrum and box kicking etc, whereas 10 ball in hand, is it mainly pre planned now?
Oh no, I'm sure you could be remembering correctly, Ackerrmann is apparently a very player power, independent though etc sort of coach. I just don't think it necessarily says that Wasps is a rigid, fixed place, where no one can express themselves. We've been scoring more tries than almost any other team for seasons, that wouldn't have come from squashing freedom in attack.
Morning Raggs, it did seem strange to me, given our history, the way Wade, for example, played, but perhaps it points to a current emphasis, or that Danny didn't get to coach the backs!
We were definitely running similar lines to what Glaws are now doing, so I would guess he had a significant input, but we were running good lines before he came too. Our style definitely changed when he joined us, and it wasn't immediate, so I guess he had to collaborate with Blackett, rather than simply being given free reign, which Ackermann seems to allow.
I don't think that's necessarily saying one team is rigid, and the other isn't, or one teams approach is correct. As we've seen, you take Cipriani away from Glaw with injury (and from us when injured) and as basically no one else can replicate what he does, so is it sustainable for a team? The beauty of what Blackett seemed to be building, is we used a wide range of players at first receiver often, Daly, Miller, Gopperth, all had the freedom to run if it was on, or spread it wider.
There's nearly always a structure in place, the question is how much detail there is within it, considering the structure we had seem to adapt to 3+ first receivers when Blackett was in charge, and virtually only Cips (sometimes WLR), when Cips was with us, there's an argument for greater "freedom" in Blacketts setup.