Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Wombles on October 09, 2022, 05:33:17 PM
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Groundhog Day
Wide channels wide open
TCUP MIA
First up, well done Saints. Played the full 80, had one chance to win it and did so. When they started running hard and straight in the wide channels with runners on the shoulders to take the offload we crumbled. Indeed when we went down to 14 if it were not for a pass not given or knock on with a hole in our defensive line then their win would of been more comfortable.
Us, well despite throwing away leads being a recurring theme for us now we do like to find new ways to do it. 8 points clear with less than 3 minutes to go should be a win 99.9% of the time. Yet our defensive shape fell apart and our intensity disappeared. We got what we deserved.
Their was however good moments, Willis was immense. Oedendaal and Mills have potential as a centre paring (yet they need to switch positions). Atkinson composed, McDonald is stepping up well, even though he needs to learn that knock on under no pressure from kick offs will be punished.
But this is 2 points snatched from a possible 5. Maybe it will not matter in a couple of weeks, equally maybe it will if we survive. It is moments like this, second half’s like Gloucester and Bristol that cost you and make top 4
Fanciful, too 6 unlikely and bottom 4 deserved.
My heart goes out to Biyi as at the end he looked heartbroken, sitting directly behind where he was leaning against the post it was hard to watch, but heartening that he cares about this club and his team so clearly!
Lee et al needs to sort this…..and soon.
Chris
Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!
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I did say this before the match started, but when you are far from certain you are getting paid in 3 week's time, your mind will be elsewhere. I am pretty certain they won't get paid. So, they may have just played that match for free. Next week it will be worse, as we drive down to Exeter and are likely to get spanked.
At least we will know before the Tigers game.
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I don’t think it has anything to do with that Nelly, if this was a one off result, possibly, but as this is a recurring theme over more than one season this is a bigger, coaching issue. We may be gone in 2-3 weeks time, but if not then Lee has a hell of a job on his hands, if it’s not fixed soon though and our future and funding is secure then it may stop being his concern.
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Well, when you are down to 14, it's no surprise that the wide channels are wide open. Saints exploited this to perfection. But we're still our own worst enemies.
As an aside, their cross kick was right on the money and Jacob could probably have done nothing (legal) to stop their winger catching and dotting down. Why not let him catch it but make absolutely sure that he doesn't get one inch closer to the posts. OK, it's 5 points with a difficult kick to convert. Instead, it's a nailed on 7 points and we are a man down for the remainder of the game. It may look bad, just not competing, but surely, in the circumstances, it's the more sensible 'play' to make? Just my opinion of course.
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I was sat close to Jacobs incident and he made an absolute balls up of it, caught to far infield, panicked, looked at the saints winger then ran underneath/little jump with no chance to catch the ball, the noise his head made
Connecting with the wingers hip was pretty grim. But a red card and self inflicted injury was avoidable. Again TCUP comes straight to mind.
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As an aside, their cross kick was right on the money and Jacob could probably have done nothing (legal) to stop their winger catching and dotting down. Why not let him catch it but make absolutely sure that he doesn't get one inch closer to the posts. OK, it's 5 points with a difficult kick to convert. Instead, it's a nailed on 7 points and we are a man down for the remainder of the game. It may look bad, just not competing, but surely, in the circumstances, it's the more sensible 'play' to make? Just my opinion of course.
I suppose that's a symptom of having a part time 15...I guess a regular back three player would have the experience to make better decisions. He's improved on positioning and even tackling but 15 is more and complex.
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I don’t know what to think anymore. Some good stuff and some awful stuff, thought Jack and Charlie were awesome, everyone knows I’m not a Jacob fan but apart from a fluffed high ball in the first few minutes I thought he played well, then his recurring brain fart. Unfortunately he’s starting to look like a red card waiting to happen. All of this has been going on to long now so what is wrong? Is it coaching or are some of the players just not good enough? Interesting conversation with my son on the way home, hypothetically if all Wasps player became available tomorrow and all the other clubs had the money and room in the cap who would have clubs scrabbling for their signature? Willis x2, Atkinson, Robson, Launchbury, Barbeary and maybe Shields can’t think of two many others.
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Its starting to look like was Lee prescient going for WH-W. We won't be seeing much of Jacob for quite some time, which is a shame because he seems to have really improved his long range kicking, and Charlie looks like he's picking up a few niggles and might need a rest.
Despite the result, there was some excellent and solid performances.
Jack, as always gave everything and had a cracking game.
Nemo another very solid game, Mr Dependable. How can you leave him out? Its amazing that for all the back row talent we have we might be struggling a bit next week.
Oghre continues to impress and Frost looked good when he came on. Curran didn't let anyone down and despite his 2 fumbles aside McDonald looks good around the park.
The props were mostly solid and at least weren't a penalty machine.
As someone pointed out, the centre partnership worked, but perhaps they need to swap round occasionally. Odendaal is picking up the pace of the Premiership and looking stronger each week.
On the down side decision making under pressure is seriously poor.
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Brave Wasps performance but we ran out steam and experienced players at the end.
Atkinson, Willis, Nemo, Oghre and Jacob all showed up well.
The best team lost today. Gutted.
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Interesting conversation with my son on the way home, hypothetically if all Wasps player became available tomorrow and all the other clubs had the money and room in the cap who would have clubs scrabbling for their signature? Willis x2, Atkinson, Robson, Launchbury, Barbeary and maybe Shields can’t think of two many others.
I'd probably include Koch, West, Stooke and Odendaal
I think Crossdale, Oghre, Alo, Ryan and Odogwu would also find contracts somewhere
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Stooke, Koch, Willis and a fit Launchbury today and we would have won by 25 points.
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Stooke, Koch, Willis and a fit Launchbury today and we would have won by 25 points.
+1
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Don’t forget West. We were missing a lot of quality players
Look I’m really upset about this afternoon, purely because it was inevitable that we would lose.
Saying that I thought we played well, much better then I thought we would. We were the better team for 78 minutes.
I’m sorry but McDonald really messed up at the end, catch the ball game over.
Charlie definitely had his best game in a wasps shirt, he is looking more and more confident. Jack Willis is a fantastic player and deserved to be on the winning side.
Carr was really good today and Oghre, I saw a lot of good things today but unfortunately the end was just so predictable
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And it does come down to the coaching.
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Well post match thoughts are, once again, just utter frustration. We had 4-5 chances to see that game out and coughed up all of them - it’s just not good enough. Who makes the on field decisions and why do they get so many wrong? We can all list the outstanding players we have. And we do have them. But we’re not winning enough games. In fact we’re finding increasingly ludicrous ways of losing them. Atkinson, Carr, Willis were brilliant. They normally are. But we lost again from a position that was almost impossible to lose from and we’re making a terrible habit of it.
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Stooke, Koch, Willis and a fit Launchbury today and we would have won by 25 points.
+1
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Disappointing result think we all agree. But even with the off field distractions I would say this:
I actually think today was the best showing for sometime of attacking shape. We didn’t seem one dimensional or easy to read, add it first half Gloucester and bath displays and I would say we have provided more flair than last season combined. Atkinson is improving game by game. For me I can see glimpses of hope. Frustrated today, certainly. Totally despondent, definitely not.
I’ve seen some crazy tweets this evening from some of the public “big fan” accounts. The wasps report and the rob guy that runs it is unbelievable. Spend half the time complains about wasps fans, then slag the team off then complain they get abuse for it. I actually have seen none. One fan called Emma rightly pointed out differing with their opinion is not abuse.
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Those McDonald kick-off cock-ups were a killer today sadly. As costly as the Umaga red was, those were more of an influence. Really felt for the lads today, they deserved to win that.
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Attendance: 10249.
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Stooke, Koch, Willis and a fit Launchbury today and we would have won by 25 points.
Potentially, but we just don't know. Was excited by Koch's arrival, until he was immediately removed.
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Stooke, Koch, Willis and a fit Launchbury today and we would have won by 25 points.
I wonder if his contractual status is different if he never actually plays for us.
Potentially, but we just don't know. Was excited by Koch's arrival, until he was immediately removed.
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Th at is good. ''Pollyanna'' speaking here trying to be positive: Attendance increasing. Margin of loss decreasing. Noise in stadium amazing. OK - still got injuries. Background Beavers beavering away at finances aspect like mad.
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PS ... Does Koch the Invisible Wasp really exist?
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Glass half full, we've been competitive in every game so far. Each one I've been disappointed and frustrated that we could have won all of them.
Yesterday I think it was the re-starts that killed us, dropped balls and the final re-start, when we needed to get the ball back to win it, was far to long when we have players like Basset who are excellent at competing and disrupting in those situations.
We need to continue to get behind the lads.
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I'm encouraged by our attacking play seems to be finding it's mojo.
I'm not sure it's a coaching thing; but we do seem to switch off when receiving a kick-off, after scoring is when we look about our most vulnerable.
Said to the person next to me that we should have gone for a short restart at the end. I can kind of see why they went long; force them to play from deep and put pressure on but it meant Saints received the ball with time/space and gained momentum running it back. I think we could have heavily competed for a short ball and put Saints under more pressure with less time to get that momentum back.
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I'm encouraged by our attacking play seems to be finding it's mojo.
I'm not sure it's a coaching thing; but we do seem to switch off when receiving a kick-off, after scoring is when we look about our most vulnerable.
Said to the person next to me that we should have gone for a short restart at the end. I can kind of see why they went long; force them to play from deep and put pressure on but it meant Saints received the ball with time/space and gained momentum running it back. I think we could have heavily competed for a short ball and put Saints under more pressure with less time to get that momentum back.
Your last point is something I mirrored too. I even said kick it short and take a scrum on halfway!
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Looks like deja vu all over again on the injury front.
Tom Willis will be out for a while with his appendicitis
From the game yesterday Wasps lost:
Umaga (red suspension as well as concussion)
Launchbury
Robson
Morris
Curran went off before the end, was that an injury?
Atkinson looked uncomfortable in the last 15 mins or so.
Not sure if anyone is expected back this week but its not looking great.
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Think we have cover everywhere save for full back. Might be utilising Hartley.
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BP: I think Curran had taken a head knock. He had treatment and looked a little groggy.
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Think we have cover everywhere save for full back
Hope so, although back row is looking like academy guys might be starting & scrum half is just Will Porter so expect an academy player on the bench.
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BP: I think Curran had taken a head knock. He had treatment and looked a little groggy.
Can’t be sure of the minute but he definitely took a swinging arm to the head as he was tackled.
He was definitely dropping in the tackle so probably only a penalty but was missed by everyone.
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I haven’t seen the game as I’m overseas, but if Claire Hodson was TMO then we’ve never had anything out of her. I remember West getting a swinging arm which wrapped around his neck whilst fully standing up at Leicester a couple of seasons ago, which she completely ignored only to pull up one of ours shortly after for a yellow. I just feel she’s a tick in the RFU’s PC column and in all the games I’ve seen she adds zero value.
Regardless though, I think Wombles nails our problem with TCUP (think clearly under pressure). Another ‘Sir Cliveism’ is the real difference is the best are just 1% better all round. There’s a lot of very good players in the GP, and there is a fine line between them and those with real quality. Unfortunately we’ve lost a lot of the real quality over the last couple of years due to cost, and the reason why MacDonald is very good, rather than top quality, is that he drops restarts at critical times under pressure. These are the pressure points which quality sides win, and we’ve got a habit of losing these little moments now.
In a lots of ways it’s a mindset, and good coaches make a difference here. Look at McCullum and the England test team - one win in 17 games before he came in. Under him the same players and support coaches have beaten all comers and won (I think) 7 out of 8 this Summer. I don’t know how he’s done it, but a lots of players have said he’s taken the pressure off them as individuals and given them self belief. We keep losing the critical moments and this becomes self fulfilling every time.
Anyway, it may be immaterial in a few days time. Let’s hope the RFU and Premiership can find a way to be as lenient with Wasps as they are with their beloved Saracens, who I think got off very lightly and still haven’t been properly punished even though they refused to open their books. I can’t see how they are yet fully compliant, and by letting good clubs and their thousands of fans go to the wall whilst allowing the likes of the cheats to flourish and dominate, they are failing English rugby and driving people away from the game.
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Absolutely right Andy. BTW: who is McCullum?
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Agreed Andy - and let’s not forget a part of the financial ills a lot of clubs now face is because they had to try and match terms that players knew they would get at the Cheats.
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Agreed Andy - and let’s not forget a part of the financial ills a lot of clubs now face is because they had to try and match terms that players knew they would get at the Cheats.
Very valid - overextended.
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Absolutely right Andy. BTW: who is McCullum?
England cricket coach, from NZ
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Absolutely right Andy. BTW: who is McCullum?
England cricket coach, from NZ
Thanks. I don't follow cricket and didn't actually have a clue :)
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Absolutely right Andy. BTW: who is McCullum?
England cricket coach, from NZ
Thanks. I don't follow cricket and didn't actually have a clue :)
What is cricket?
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Absolutely right Andy. BTW: who is McCullum?
England cricket coach, from NZ
Thanks. I don't follow cricket and didn't actually have a clue :)
What is cricket?
A sport where the established clubs are being replaced by ECB bullshit in the form of the hundred. Who needs bonds to ruin your club?
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Agreed Andy - and let’s not forget a part of the financial ills a lot of clubs now face is because they had to try and match terms that players knew they would get at the Cheats.
+1 Not only the cost of players but the loss of income as the cheats were winning using that "advantage "
I keep on getting told to get over it elsewhere.....
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Indeed.
Seems that our sport is not alone, similar things occurring in formula 1 - although that's just 1 year, rather than probably nearer 10 years of it
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Sarries have been at it over 20 years. People were getting over half a million pounds to sign on to Sarries - certainly from 2005 onwards, and if you consider before that they had Sella, Horan, Lynagh, Piennar etc. I assume there was a loyalty clause in the contract.
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I'll never get over Sarries. Ever. Sadly, it won't worry them.
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My ignorance what is TCUP?
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My ignorance what is TCUP?
It's a Clive Woodward'ism
Thinking clearly under pressure
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My ignorance what is TCUP?
It's a Clive Woodward'ism
Thinking clearly under pressure
It’s the difference from a top quality player and say someone like Umaga
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Just.... aaaaaaaarghhhhh.
Again.
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We go to Chiefs this weekend. That could be a painful experience, given what is happening. And whether we get to play at Welford Road, a week later, is totally in the lap of the gods.
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Nothing like a bit of optimism :)
From the Offy.
On Sale Now | Sale Sharks Gallagher Premiership Exclusively For Members
https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/on-sale-now-sale-sharks-gallagher-premiership-exclusively-for-members/ (https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/on-sale-now-sale-sharks-gallagher-premiership-exclusively-for-members/)
Sorry posted this in the wrong thread.
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Nothing like a bit of optimism :)
From the Offy.
On Sale Now | Sale Sharks Gallagher Premiership Exclusively For Members
https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/on-sale-now-sale-sharks-gallagher-premiership-exclusively-for-members/ (https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/on-sale-now-sale-sharks-gallagher-premiership-exclusively-for-members/)
Sorry posted this in the wrong thread.
Maybe they are not telling us something!!!
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I haven’t seen the game as I’m overseas, but if Claire Hodson was TMO then we’ve never had anything out of her. I remember West getting a swinging arm which wrapped around his neck whilst fully standing up at Leicester a couple of seasons ago, which she completely ignored only to pull up one of ours shortly after for a yellow. I just feel she’s a tick in the RFU’s PC column and in all the games I’ve seen she adds zero value.
This is just a horrendous level of misogyny.