Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: wycombewasp on February 05, 2022, 06:55:07 PM
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the other nations are desperate that mental Eddie keeps his job
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LCD single handedly handed momentum and the result to Scotland due to his stupidity. How he got all the way to the test team and did not know what he did would result in that is beyond me. Wider than that due to Eddie not really knowing how to create stability or consistency we have a wonderfully talented team 2 years behind in development and struggling to catch up. It was this that showed as Scotland saw it out and we could not find a way to win. The RFU board who kept him on and Eddie Jones deserve most of the blame.
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57 old farts
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I'm not interested in england any more, what a great win for Wasps today,
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Odd game. England's forwards kept them in the game but the backs selection seemed to mean that unless it was a kick or Smith had the ball, there was little on offer.
Scotland's forwards were a little under powered, but their ball in hand was quality. I thought that England were given the rub of the officiating green too often and probably scored their try off a ref error.....England tired to play their power wave game but also using the wider channels. The players with credit were Nick I and Ludlam up front and Smith and Malins behind. Young was good too - but what might have been a slightly pulled together team but packed with experience, seemed not to have a coherent plan or strategy.
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I was thinking how tedious it was to watch when Brian Moore announced how much he was enjoying the game. He was there so getting a different perspective, but as a TV spectacle it was hard work.
England looked lacklustre, and so did Alfie today. I wonder if they're all over trained and tired? The mental one is always saying how much fitter they need to be at that level so perhaps that's why he keeps breaking players?
And now for my pet peeve. What is it with TV directors of international rugby that makes them keep cutting away to fans, often drunken idiots making fools of themselves? The BBC Wales director is the worst. If I want to watch drunken idiots making fools of themselves I'll go in to the local town on a Saturday night.
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TCUP...Eddie Jones does not have to create the idea, or even work out how to develop it. Woodward developed it over 2 decades ago. Problem is Eddie Jones is not good or capable enough to take us to a six nations anymore, and certainly not a world cup. We need to offload him as soon as possible.
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England were ten times better than Wales!
They were utterly hopeless.
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Just about the dumbest set of substitutions around the 65 minute mark. England had all the play, the set piece was going well, and defensively we were well in control. So he swaps half the pack, and stand off, thus taking out all of the momentum we had and throwing the game away.
Utterly stupid!
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Arrogance. England had the game won but made terrible substitutions as they thought it was done. First half Youngs kept kicking deep in their half when keeping ball in hand would probably have got us a try. We just lacked ideas and our backs were fairly pedestrian. Why on earth did Eddie not put Dombrandt at 8. One thing I do agree with him about is that Simmonds does not have the physicality to be an international 8. Thought Ludlam and Curry were ok but generally we were not very inventive.
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And why did they make Marler take a crucial throw in on their own 5m instead of sending George on, who was going to have to come on anyway.
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And why did they make Marler take a crucial throw in on their own 5m instead of sending George on, who was going to have to come on anyway.
Presumably George could only come on to replace the sin binned player for a scrum. Bringing him on for a line out would have meant a permanent substitution. Might still have been the right call.
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And why did they make Marler take a crucial throw in on their own 5m instead of sending George on, who was going to have to come on anyway.
Yup.
Dunning Kruger Effect.
Way overestimated their ability and potential.
A bit arrogant, to be honest.
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England won a load of ball and when offered to the backs - seemed unable to do anything with it. Martin Gleeson as attack coach would surely have offered more than what was on offer.
Was he stymied by Jones perhaps? Give Wasps usual backline that much ball and we'd have won that game?
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The biggest obstacle to England's development is Eddie Jones. He did his best, but where we need to go exceeded his ability 3 seasons ago. There is a saying "bu**sh*t baffles brains". Both Eddie Jones and Boris Johnson are masters at it and that is why they have been in place far longer than they really ever deserved to be.
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I think the more apt term is one we were taught as young soldiers: if you’re going to talk b*****t, talk it confidently.
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Youngs kicked too deep and was his usual slow self. We didn’t stretch Scotland at all and made defending easy for them which they did well.
LCD was silly and the substitutions at the end were poor, Dombrant at 6 was odd. Possession wish we were dominant but were too slow and looked lost.
I thing EJ just runs the players into the ground and doesn’t work enough on a game plan. The bench had wrong players on it
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Eddie finally gets caught out for playing players out of position.
Marchant a 13 playing at 14 races off to defend the 13 channel when the 15 is sucked onto the wing and leaves Cowan-dickie in a hopeless position. Daly playing 13 kicks the ball away with a three man overlap. Both centres out of position as were both wingers - no wonder we did nothing in attack.
Stewart is great under the high ball but offers absolutely zero in attack and is useless when kicking from hand - but Borthwick is Eddies mate so he gets in.
Malins was dismal - ran around like a headless chicken until crashing into contact and bounced off every tackle. It was his non tackle attempt that ultimately led to LCD’s yellow and the penalty try. Yet Nowell - superior in a every aspect - got 7 seconds (why bother bringing him on?)
Just as Smith had found some space to operate in due to the fatigue of 60 mins, Jones took him off and replaced him with the anonymous and conservative Ford who put England into reverse.
The RFU needs to take a look at the ECB for an example of realising mistakes and showing ambition before it’s too late, rather than continuing to dig a hole with someone who’s lost their way.
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I bet Eddie Jones tries to make toast in the dishwasher.
Totally baffling substitutions.
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The understanding that Eddie has that you’re better off without the ball at test rugby is so infuriating!
Go through a series of phases on the front foot and then put a grubber in kicking it away, even cowndickie did one. Youngs kicks too long again, you’d think he’d be better at box kicking by now, on two occasions the backline was all in line to attack and he kicked long meaning there weren’t even any chasers. Just bizarre.
Picking players like Dombrandt and Simmonds and then not letting them play their game is frustrating too, Dombrandt in particular was just anonymous when he came on. Ludlum was playing well and probably should have stayed on.
Guess we’re only putting a 9 on the bench on car Youngs gets injured. If Randall can’t be trusted to pick the game up with 20 to go over Youngs’ ponderous outing then he should not be on the bench
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Eddie finally gets caught out for playing players out of position.
Marchant a 13 playing at 14 races off to defend the 13 channel
when the 15 is sucked onto the wing and leaves Cowan-dickie in a hopeless position. Daly playing 13 kicks the ball away with a three man overlap. Both centres out of position as were both wingers - no wonder we did nothing in attack.
Stewart is great under the high ball but offers absolutely zero in attack and is useless when kicking from hand - but Borthwick is Eddies mate so he gets in.
Malins was dismal - ran around like a headless chicken until crashing into contact and bounced off every tackle. It was his non tackle attempt that ultimately led to LCD’s yellow and the penalty try. Yet Nowell - superior in a every aspect - got 7 seconds (why bother bringing him on?)
Just as Smith had found some space to operate in due to the fatigue of 60 mins, Jones took him off and replaced him with the anonymous and conservative Ford who put England into reverse.
The RFU needs to take a look at the ECB for an example of realising mistakes and showing ambition before it’s too late, rather than continuing to dig a hole with someone who’s lost their way.
Agree with all of that. Baffling selection and in game decisions. We’ve now lost 4 of our last 6 games in the 6N after being poor in previous years. For Jones is just a bit of a myth.
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I often question the removal of head coaches / managers after a period of failure, as the adversity is often a huge learning experience.
But....
I am finding it increasingly difficult, near impossible, to find any defence for England rugby.
I can see arguments, whether I agree with it or not, for the high turnover of coaching staff.
I can sometimes see reasons behind some of the baffling squad decisions.
However, performance and/or results just aren't justifying such deviation from the norm.
If Eddie feels that England don't have the right quality of players for him to work with adequately, then it's time for the RFU to find someone who has the ability to adapt and work with the players at his disposal.
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Mitch must be very happy to be out of the England setup.
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I often question the removal of head coaches / managers after a period of failure, as the adversity is often a huge learning experience.
But....
I am finding it increasingly difficult, near impossible, to find any defence for England rugby.
I can see arguments, whether I agree with it or not, for the high turnover of coaching staff.
I can sometimes see reasons behind some of the baffling squad decisions.
However, performance and/or results just aren't justifying such deviation from the norm.
If Eddie feels that England don't have the right quality of players for him to work with adequately, then it's time for the RFU to find someone who has the ability to adapt and work with the players at his disposal.
Good points, well made.
Organisations rot from the top down, not bottom up. How much more evidence do we need that the Jones experiment isn't 0working? Or as Einstein pointed out, the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
They've just manged to get terrestrial TV to start showing Premiership games to help spread the word about Rugby being a great spectator sport, and then England serve up this sort of result. The only way to attract new spectators to the game, especially children, is a winning England team, and if they aren't winning at least they're losing playing entertaining rugby.
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I love watching Wasps when we play open, fast, attacking rugby as we often attempt to do.
I accept that it won't always work, and that when it doesn't it can look awful.
However, I also appreciate seeing a 3-0 power based grind of a win, with backs to the wall defence on your own try line.
Some of England's best wins in the build up to 2003 were herculean defensive efforts that feel very far removed from what I want to see from Wasps..... Yet it was still hugely compelling.
I therefore accept that England don't have to play a gung ho, suicidal offloading game for it to be exciting.
The problem I have with England rugby at the moment is that so often it is neither.
It's as though in an attempt to not be 1 dimensional, we don't really excel anywhere and become less than the sum of our parts.
The occasional enjoyable game where things come together suggests that Eddie is putting all the different parts together to come up with the solution that he always knew was coming but none of us can see....... He then changes it again for the next game and we're back to square 1.
I'm beginning to think that he is Agent Eddie still getting revenge for 2003
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The SH commentators generally have suggested that jones has a sell by date, after which he tends to lose the dressing room, both players and coaches. Now - I'm not sure that's the case with England, but I do think he's failing to do the straight forwards when the straight forwards is indicated.
We've had 5 games post the debacle of the 2021 6Ns. The key problems behind the forwards was at 9 12 and 13 and yet we were sill pissing Dan about at 9 and trying to get Lawrence to play 12. even Dan Kelly played a game there. None of those players from those games, except Atkinson, are now involved....And he's not got a game...
Back three options are fine - but games are manipulated by the 9 and 10 and the centres. Back three rarely gets the ball if they're not on top of their game. And yesterday - we saw the folly of a backline that had a first time centre combination, a 13 at 12 a 13 at wing and an aging 9 - unable to do much with a virtually monopoly of possession....
Either Jones has some massive plan, or he's out of ideas.
If we're to do anything, then we have to hope certain centres are fit......
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You watch Dupont and the work rate, pace and craft he brings to France (even without much game time) and then you remember that Ben Youngs is your national scrum half, who’s about to become our most capped player of all time!
There aren’t enough hands-over-eyes emojis to communicate how I feel about that.
It’s so depressingly ‘Eddie Jones’.
It just perfectly reflects how stubborn and controlling he is, as he would prefer to stick with Youngs rather than realise another scrum half in the Premiership could do a better job, thereby making him wrong….and everyone else right.
Fragile egos around the world, especially people in power, really do ruin it for the rest of us.
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The best possible outcome of this would be to sack EJ at the QF stage of the next World Cup and let the players sort it out. The downside to this strategy would be that at least half of the best England players would have no International experience and many would not even be in the squad.
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The best possible outcome of this would be to sack EJ at the QF stage of the next World Cup and let the players sort it out. The downside to this strategy would be that at least half of the best England players would have no International experience and many would not even be in the squad.
Another downside. Would England reach the QFs with mental Eddie still at the helm?
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In many ways getting to another WC final and looking so good in the event itself has done for England. The contract was renewed despite two awful years prior to the WC, and we are in the middle of two pretty awful years. That is a lot of awful years.
We keep beating Australia and have wins vs the SH giants, but the cost has been a generally terrible 6N since 2017, with one outlier where we ground out 4 wins. Brian Ashton also got to a final and still left as it was clearly not working for him.
Now to me I genuinely do prefer wins over NZ/SA/Australia to success in the 6N, but that is because the minimum standard in the 6n should be 1 defeat/year. If Eddie's England can get SH results and hit that standard I would not begrudge him failing to lift the trophy, but we can't. We are pathetic in the 6n every other year, and when not pathetic as in 2018 or last year, we are plain middling to poor. Eddie has gone past the sell by date and is Captain Redbeard Rum from Blackadder, convinced in his own methods when the rest of the world have stability in selection and coaching staff and picks no more than the odd player out of position.
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Are the RFU happy with a world cup final, if it's preceded and followed by multiple poor 6 Nations and middling results against the southern hemisphere teams?
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RWC minimum is I suppose a SF. And that did for Lancaster - who's 80% 6Ns record hasn't been exceeded. But in the 6Ns England ought to be 1st or 2nd and v occasionally 3rd...
5th, twice, and a long losing streak - in 2018 - isn't good enough,
As for the 2019 RWC, it wasn't as if we were imperious in the tournament. Flat and dull in the pool, beat the Aussies and then had our good game.....And came out of the RWC almost deliberately not wanting to evolve....or use the Autumn Cup to experiment. Our 2019 6Ns win was just par for the course and told us very little - a bit like 2017.....before 2021/2018 seasons which were inept.
It's as if Jones has to demonstrate how clever he is more than seemingly have any sort of overarching plan...Remember in 2018 6Ns our centres included Ben Te'O....
And as for change....we surely need to be establishing a "now"
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Our 2019 6Ns win was just par for the course and told us very little - a bit like 2017.....before 2021/2018 seasons which were inept.
We didn't win 2019 6N. We looked like the best team during that 6N, but didn't win after loss to Wales and Draw to Scots. The rest you're bang on about however.
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Personally I'd rather see England win games and do it either emphatically or with some style.
To some degree, I'm not bothered if it's 6 Nations, summer tour, AIs or world cup.
I'm sure the players go out attempting to win every game, but it so often feels like they're hamstrung due to some master plan.
Well, I say, fuck the master plan... Just go out and enjoy yourselves every game
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Personally I'd rather see England win games and do it either emphatically or with some style.
To some degree, I'm not bothered if it's 6 Nations, summer tour, AIs or world cup.
I'm sure the players go out attempting to win every game, but it so often feels like they're hamstrung due to some master plan.
Well, I say, fuck the master plan... Just go out and enjoy yourselves every game
Hear, hear.
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Economics 101: incentives matter.
Make finishing 1st or 2nd in the 6N and (re)creating fortress Twickenham in the AIs as the priority and the WC will look after itself. Winning teams are capable of winning anywhere, any time.
Make the WC the priority and the 6N and AIs become incidental. The problem with relying on the WC is that anything can happen in the knockout stages, no matter how well you play, and the all the 6N and AI per performances were for nought if you get knocked out in the QF.
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From my perspective the most depressing issue was the atrocious quality of the match having just watched Ireland give a master class on high tempo, 15 man rugby. They're playing an All Black style game but better than the All Blacks (on current form). The pace and speed at the breakdown was remarkable and the passing precision from quick ball almost impossible to defend. Committing the absolute minimum to the breakdown with forwards and backs equally buying in to the attacking patterns and executing extremely well. Everyone is saying that Wales were poor but I believe Ireland on that form would have comfortably beaten anyone.
Then we were "treated" to Scotland v England and it was so pedestrian it looked like a pair of pub teams vets by comparison. England had a fairly well drilled pack who dominated but were clueless at how to get over the line if the penalty they were hoping for didn't materialise. It was so evident at that last scrum that they were terrified of giving the ball to the backs if they didn't win a penalty and as it proved, pass to Slade, pass to Daly who inevitably got turned over, game lost, no surprise. Scotland, of course, celebrate like they've just won the World Cup but if they expect to win against anyone else after being dominated for 80% of the match they're dreaming. They were one brain fart by a hooker away from being comfortably beaten. Ireland and France and possibly Wales with home advantage will beat them if their forwards can't improve dramatically and win a bit of possession since all three have a far better coached backline than England. The least worse team won that match.
I would predict Scotland and England battling out for who finishes 4th and 5th unless one or other improves drastically. England have a moderately better chance as they should comfortably beat Italy and will hopefully be able to reinvigorate their attack (If Eddie allows them to actually keep hold of the ball). Scotland have a very difficult away match in Cardiff next in front of a passionate Welsh support against a team with a lot to prove so I suspect Wales will win. Historically it's not been a happy hunting ground for the Scots
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From my perspective the most depressing issue was the atrocious quality of the match having just watched Ireland give a master class on high tempo, 15 man rugby. They're playing an All Black style game but better than the All Blacks (on current form). The pace and speed at the breakdown was remarkable and the passing precision from quick ball almost impossible to defend. Committing the absolute minimum to the breakdown with forwards and backs equally buying in to the attacking patterns and executing extremely well. Everyone is saying that Wales were poor but I believe Ireland on that form would have comfortably beaten anyone.
Then we were "treated" to Scotland v England and it was so pedestrian it looked like a pair of pub teams vets by comparison. England had a fairly well drilled pack who dominated but were clueless at how to get over the line if the penalty they were hoping for didn't materialise. It was so evident at that last scrum that they were terrified of giving the ball to the backs if they didn't win a penalty and as it proved, pass to Slade, pass to Daly who inevitably got turned over, game lost, no surprise. Scotland, of course, celebrate like they've just won the World Cup but if they expect to win against anyone else after being dominated for 80% of the match they're dreaming. They were one brain fart by a hooker away from being comfortably beaten. Ireland and France and possibly Wales with home advantage will beat them if their forwards can't improve dramatically and win a bit of possession since all three have a far better coached backline than England. The least worse team won that match.
I would predict Scotland and England battling out for who finishes 4th and 5th unless one or other improves drastically. England have a moderately better chance as they should comfortably beat Italy and will hopefully be able to reinvigorate their attack (If Eddie allows them to actually keep hold of the ball). Scotland have a very difficult away match in Cardiff next in front of a passionate Welsh support against a team with a lot to prove so I suspect Wales will win. Historically it's not been a happy hunting ground for the Scots
I agree with a lot of this. On Saturday we actually took very little from our mediocre visits into the Scotland 22 - red zone conversion was poor - but that's because quite a lot of it was kicking away possession. Apart from Smith's try the possession and threat we offered in their 22 was rubbish. We spent a lot of the game going from side to side because Youngs was slow and we lacked the nous to hit shoulders or gaps to open up space.
The fact that Scotland needed a penalty try and some very dodgy reffing from O'Keefe in those four scrums at the end isn't a great reflection on them. I don't think Wales are particularly great and Ireland are the outstanding side in the competition - it's theirs to lose in my opinion. France are a good bet but always seem to blow it somehow. I think whether we finish 4th or 5th depends on our game with Wales - and that just isn't good enough given our resources.
I get the feeling that the RFU is putting all its eggs in one basket and trying to win the World Cup at the expense of the 6 Nations, but it only takes one bad game for four year's work and planning to get undone.
I also get the feeling we don't have much chance of either given the French ref's disgraceful performance against Wales last year, and O'Keefe this year (he's got previous with England and Jones), that it's too much of a mountain to climb for England to get a level playing field. Sorry, i know it's not rugby to criticise officials and i probably sound like Alex Ferguson, but lightening shouldn't be allowed to strike twice like it has for us. Had we been any other side I don't doubt the scrum penalty would have been correctly awarded at the end. Even Gregor Townsend admitted the only thing he was thinking was pondering if we were going take the kick or kick for touch!
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The fact that Scotland needed a penalty try
Think this is harsh on Scotland. They didn't need a Penalty Try, one was awarded to them as if it wasn't for LCD deliberately knocking on into touch they would have scored a try. In that sense, the try was happening whether claimed by Graham and scored, or by Penalty Try because we effectively cheated to prevent the try.
Was a close game and will be an incredibly frustrating one for England to have lost. At the time, I was pretty happy with the selection. But too many what-ifs now.
Would we have been better swapping Marchant and Daly around? Slade at 12 was fine for me, but i'd also be open to seeing Atkinson/Slade as a 12/13 combo. Nowell for Malins would be my other swap. I'm happy with Malins at Full-Back to open up the game towards the end, but not one the Wing. Mind you, with May/Watson fit i'd doubt we'd be seeing Malins in the 23.
Would like to see Dombrant start over Simmonds with Sam to come on later in the game if need be.
And then any of Care, Robson, Quirke or Spencer ahead of Youngs and Randall.
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And then any of Care, Robson, Quirke or Spencer ahead of Youngs and Randall.
I'd add Porter, Wolstenholme, Andy Gommarsall, Matt Dawson, Dewi Morris, Steve Smith, Nigel Melvile, Nigel Starmer-Smith and my elderly mother to the list of those I'd like to see start ahead of Youngs!
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And then any of Care, Robson, Quirke or Spencer ahead of Youngs and Randall.
I'd add Porter, Wolstenholme, Andy Gommarsall, Matt Dawson, Dewi Morris, Steve Smith, Nigel Melvile, Nigel Starmer-Smith and my elderly mother to the list of those I'd like to see start ahead of Youngs!
And don't forget Dickie Jeeps ;D
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Think this is harsh on Scotland. They didn't need a Penalty Try, one was awarded to them as if it wasn't for LCD deliberately knocking on into touch they would have scored a try. In that sense, the try was happening whether claimed by Graham and scored, or by Penalty Try because we effectively cheated to prevent the try.
LCD got both hands to the ball, he could have comfortably caught it. In that case a try was not happening. Absolutely right to award the pen try given LCD's action, but it didn't have to be a try at all.
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The basket case of the RFU haven't the money to get rid of weird Eddie.
I think we are stuck with him.
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The basket case of the RFU haven't the money to get rid of weird Eddie.
I think we are stuck with him.
Sadly this appears to be the bottom line. RFU completely painted themselves into a corner by giving him an extended contract that they can't afford to buy him out of, and seemingly with no clause in there to allow them to jettison him if results don't meet some clear (and high) expectations.
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The basket case of the RFU haven't the money to get rid of weird Eddie.
I think we are stuck with him.
Sadly this appears to be the bottom line. RFU completely painted themselves into a corner by giving him an extended contract that they can't afford to buy him out of, and seemingly with no clause in there to allow them to jettison him if results don't meet some clear (and high) expectations.
Have the RFU ever tried to run a piss up in a brewery?
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The basket case of the RFU haven't the money to get rid of weird Eddie.
I think we are stuck with him.
Sadly this appears to be the bottom line. RFU completely painted themselves into a corner by giving him an extended contract that they can't afford to buy him out of, and seemingly with no clause in there to allow them to jettison him if results don't meet some clear (and high) expectations.
Have the RFU ever tried to run a piss up in a brewery?
Probably a brew-up in a pissery would be beyond them
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And then any of Care, Robson, Quirke or Spencer ahead of Youngs and Randall.
I'd add Porter, Wolstenholme, Andy Gommarsall, Matt Dawson, Dewi Morris, Steve Smith, Nigel Melvile, Nigel Starmer-Smith and my elderly mother to the list of those I'd like to see start ahead of Youngs!
Youngs slow use of the ball hampered England all game. His foot positioning, thinking time and poor kicking gave England no momentum. He made one good break and that was all.
He has one of the worst passes I've ever seen for a professional scrum half. Even with quick ball, he picks it up, runs a few steps and cocks his wrists back before passing.
Compare Gibson-Park's single action pass off the deck from a ruck for Conway's walk-in try for Ireland. Also Dupont for France.
If England want to play a faster game they need a quicker scrum half. Quirke was good for Sale. I think he and Alex Mitchell are the future. They are both good passers and effective snipers. Randall is ok but probably won't get the space for his trademark breaks at international level.
Dan Robson is probably the best kicker and game controller of them all but his distribution is not the best, though quicker than Youngs.
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Yes, it’s painful isn’t it. But it’s not changing any time soon. Randall is a poor scrum half for me - makes bad decisions. Quirke - still not sure. I think the two best scrum halves England have are Care and Robson but either will be selected.
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Yes, it’s painful isn’t it. But it’s not changing any time soon. Randall is a poor scrum half for me - makes bad decisions. Quirke - still not sure. I think the two best scrum halves England have are Care and Robson but either will be selected.
I agree.
Although Quirke could be the long term prospect.
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Yes, it’s painful isn’t it. But it’s not changing any time soon. Randall is a poor scrum half for me - makes bad decisions. Quirke - still not sure. I think the two best scrum halves England have are Care and Robson but either will be selected.
I agree.
Although Quirke could be the long term prospect.
Dobby's passing isn't the most accurate but he's light years faster than Youngs. Mind you, I'm comparing everyone to Andy Gomersall and Martyn Wood who were the scrum halves when I first started supporting Wasps. I remember watching the two of them going through a warm-up passing exercise with Nigel Mellville who knows a thing or two about scrum half skills. Passes like bullets with astonishing precision.
Quirke looks very promising, I agree that Randall isn't the answer, too much of a show pony for me, I wouldn't depend on him to make the right decisions under pressure, he can't make those trade mark breaks every time and certainly not against well organised international standard defences.
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What really irks me is his stubborn bloody-mindedness to continue picking players out of position in his "I know better than anyone else" manner. An earlier post likened him to "Redbeard Rum", this is spot on, "Crew m'lord? Opinion is divided....."
Surely the foundation for success is to pick players in their natural position who are in form and blood enough youngsters in a steady trickle to allow for succession planning. The fact that Ben Youngs ahs so many caps and is predicted by EJ to be the starting 9 at the next RWC is nothing short of laughable.
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Tbf to Youngs I when he plays for tigers I think his play is quicker . Maybe a slower pace has been the formula demanded to ensure accuracy let players get in position? Not saying it’s right but if he’s doing as he’s told by the manager , he keeps his place.
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Tbf to Youngs I when he plays for tigers I think his play is quicker . Maybe a slower pace has been the formula demanded to ensure accuracy let players get in position? Not saying it’s right but if he’s doing as he’s told by the manager , he keeps his place.
I grudgingly accept that ;D but it seldom appears that he plays well, not just his slow service, but all round play. He'll have a good game for England once in a blue moon, but is hardly consistent.
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Not saying it’s right but if he’s doing as he’s told by the manager , he keeps his place.
That is exactly what is happening. Jones wants his players to play to his game plan. It doesn't really matter who he picks if that game plan remains flawed.
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Personally I loved it when Youngs last played against us, I thought Tigers were just about to score until youngs got the ball and foolishly decided to dart forward into Barbeary who took the ball like it was sweets from a kid - game over
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Personally I loved it when Youngs last played against us, I thought Tigers were just about to score until youngs got the ball and foolishly decided to dart forward into Barbeary who took the ball like it was sweets from a kid - game over
I remember that well. I thought it was dreadful, selfish move by him.
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England - my thoughts on looking back to last weekend
With that much ball, England must have been able to attempt to do what they were asked by the coaches. That's actually more of an issue for me....that we got so much ball, and the tactics coached didn't seem to work
So why was this performance produced? It at least in part, has to be the selection and what they were asked to do.....And that was the same problem last 6Ns. it's a question of if the coaching team are looking in the right direction. Looking back - it wasn't efficient/effective - but I have to presume the team with a load of ball were applying the plan agreed.
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That's been my thinking for a while.
Jones only picks players who will follow his game plan.
They follow the plan & lose or don't win enough of the games that matter
Jones can't blame the players because he's picked them & apart form a few high profile players being discarded, has stuck with a core of players who clearly must be doing as they are told.
Therefore, IMO it must be the game plan which is at fault.
hence no point picking different players if you are going to get them to play the same plan.
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Perversely want italy to win this weekend, but am hoping that Launchbury ( or even other wasps players as last minute call ups) isn’t in team to suffer indignity/ fall out
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It looks like Launchbury and Barbeary haven’t made the 27 man squad and have been sent back. Great news for us
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BREAKING: Alfie Barbeary, Jonny Hill, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Tom Pearson, Mark Atkinson, Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Orlando Bailey, Ollie Hassell-Collins, Louis Lynagh and Luke Northmore released ahead of this weekend.
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Excellent news.
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I see.
It’s double or quits for Eddie by the looks of it. A good chance to give some other players game time.
Keep Smith, put Atkinson in. Keep Youngs at home. See how OHC does. But nope.
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The annual win v Italy is normally the go to game to justify selection/methods etc. Not even Eddie could contrive to lose to them.
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So - we're not going to see if playing people in their club shirt numbers and are given the tasks that got them selected will work. We've actually now not got a regular 12 and so nothing like an obvious midfield. And without any changes to the pack - Ludlam excepted as unfit - and no Lawes suggests what? Isiekwe at 6? Or Dom starting at 6?
We spent too much time running into a decent defence and failing to pass or link with the backline....And were at best "clunky" in the backs with using Slade at 12...and a centre at wing. So lets repeat and hope for the best?
Forza Italia... (referenced as in "Go Italy" and not the political party..)