Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: BlackAndGoldSunglasses on August 16, 2022, 09:40:41 AM
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So bit of a change from the pitch / finances discussion... this is what the squad looks like for this season, I think. See if I've missed anyone, and then it's a "first game XXIII" selection game!
1. West, Harris, Martinez, Hislop
2. Cruse, Frost, Oghre, (Van Vuuren)?
3. Koch, Alo, Millar-Mills, Ryan
4. Launch, McDonald, Dodson (injury cover)
5. Stooke (inj.), Cardall, Theo
6. Shields, Nemo
7. JW, Morris
8. TW, Alfie, Curran
9. Dobby, Porter, Wusty, Hougaard (okay, he's a winger too :) )
10. Umaga (inj.), Atkinson, Haydon-Wood
11. Bertie, Mehson
12. Burger, Mills, Hartley
13. Spink, Simonds
14. Kibirige, Paolo
15. Crossdale, Minozzi
Anyone I've missed? We still look light at centre for me (lot of reliance on Mills not being made of glass this time around) and despite the cover at lock it's still a concern until ES is fit.
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If 'inj' means injured, then stick it to Umaga, as he is out for a while.
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If 'inj' means injured, then stick it to Umaga, as he is out for a while.
Yeah, forgot about that. MCL - any news on when he might be back?
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I know I'm just a football fan ( ;)), but I'd be inclined to count Hougaard as a wing rather than a 9.
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1. West
2. Oghre
3. Alo
4. Launchbury
5. Cardell
6. Shields
7. J Willis
8. T Willis (Lee picks Alfie)
9. Robson
10. Atkinson
11. Bassett
12. Berger
13. Spink
14. Paolo
15. Crossdale
I’d go with Tom at 8 but think Lee will pick Alfie. Think Alo will get the nod to start with he deserves it after last season’s improvements and Koch won’t be up to speed
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Curran is probably going to be 6 or 7 rather than 8. From what I’ve seen we still have Van Vuuren at hooker.
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Great post - just for a change of pace!
I might be a bit pedantic with some of your back row positioning but it’s not a massive concern.
The next cabs off the rank in the academy make for an interesting side note when the squad looks a little light.
You’d expect Alfie Bell to get some gametime somewhere this year and 6ft8 homegrown locks are pretty hard to come by.
Tunney, Cripps, Fisilau and Fin Brown will all be just behind Curran, waiting in the wings, Brown has the size for 6 and will get some experience playing at Moseley this year - the other 3 might all end up at 7 eventually so not sure if all will push on to the senior squad.
Mario Pichardie has also potentially left, have seen that he released a highlights video a while back and hasn’t appeared in any of the behind the scenes footage.
Ma’asi White will get some more experience in the centres this year and although I’ve not seen him play, Feyi-Waboso was thought highly of at Cardiff and might be next in line for a run on the wing if we’re very short, Bacon has featured before and Rakodrava looks to have some potential.
In the props with Nearchou, Pleasants, Hardwick and McArthur we also look well set for the future.
The academy is definitely bearing fruit but it’s time for these guys to take squad positions now and be solid options making us look stronger on paper - especially in the centres.
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1. West
2. Oghre
3. Alo
4. Launchbury
5. Cardell
6. Shields
7. J Willis
8. T Willis (Lee picks Alfie)
9. Robson
10. Atkinson
11. Bassett
12. Berger
13. Spink
14. Paolo
15. Crossdale
Matches my first XV to start - I think that backrow is better than England's...(low bar?) and I'd like Alfie to get super sub duties to gain experience and earn his place on the pitch. He'll start lots of matches if we can keep him away from Eddie....
I'm hoping the news on Mills is positive as the few times he's played, he's shown class and I hope that we're looking to get those wingers involved more and nearer the breakdown - something we've not really been "hitting" since our Prem final season.
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Talking fine margins but for me Cruse is still our best hooker. And if we’re talking a fully available squad surely Koch has to start. Completely agree re Cardall - I think he’s outstanding.
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If we can avoid serious injuries in the pack (famous last words!) then I think that looks pretty strong especially the Stooke is back.
I agree re Tim (Cardall) as he and Theo have a good opportunity in the first few weeks. I don't know much about McDonald, but he is experienced so should be decent as well.
Back row looks very strong at this stage.
If the backs can get decent quick ball there are some good options there. A fit and confident Dobbie and Porter are a very good mix.
If we can "gel" and get some confidence early on it could be interesting.
Yes - there are question marks around the centres as we haven't seen Odendaal at all or much of Mills, but then neither have the Oppo either.
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laying the full 23 game, as BAGS suggested, I think we'll see:
1. West
2. Cruse
3. Alo
4. Launchbury
5. Cardell
6. Shields
7. J Willis
8. T Willis
9. Robson
10. Atkinson
11. Bassett
12. Berger
13. Spink
14. Paolo
15. Crossdale
16. Frost
17. Martinez
18. Koch
19. Theo
20. Barbeary
21. Porter
22. WHW
23. Minozzi
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Talking fine margins but for me Cruse is still our best hooker. And if we’re talking a fully available squad surely Koch has to start. Completely agree re Cardall - I think he’s outstanding.
Don’t disagree with the Koch comment just think after playing for SA and the mandatory rest afterwards not sure he will be fully up to speed with his team mates and That’s why I think Alo will start the season. As for hookers I don’t think there is a lot to choose between all 3, I think Oghre is just more mobile around the pitch than Cruse and Frost, Cruse and Frost are better defensively than Oghre and I think Frost is more powerful with ball in hand than Cruse and Oghre. Could be horses for courses depending on the opposition, nice problem to have for a change
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For what it's worth, I think Biyi starts the season in pole position for the number 3 shirt. Finished last season very strongly, rewarded(?) with a call up to the Eng training squad, and looks in seriously good shape from the pre-season videos. Not seen anything of Ryan in Wasps colours yet, I think?
Think we lack a little size in the centres, with Booj having departed. We had Mala and Booj who both offered some serious physicality last season - now we've got Odendaal (who does look a fair unit, it has to be said).
For me the pack looks very strong, with a lot of interchangeability (is that a word?) without a noticeable drop off.
The injury list could be key, with what's a smaller squad than we've had in the last couple of seasons...
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pedantic
I recognise that Shibboleth.
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Koch will be our end of season/ European player. If as has been suggested he comes back into contention in December then he will be handy for the 6N and if we get through to the next stage of Europe.
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Talking fine margins but for me Cruse is still our best hooker. And if we’re talking a fully available squad surely Koch has to start. Completely agree re Cardall - I think he’s outstanding.
In terms of first game - Koch is probably best brought in carefully, post RC games and some time off. Re hooker - I'd have agreed halfway through last season - I just got the feel that Oghre really grew during the second half and his durability over 1,000 min Prem time) and stints in the backrow and increasing number of scores meant that for me - with excellent props in West and Alo, he probably starts the season in pole. But as stated above - great problem to have with Frost and Cruse.
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The next cabs of the rank in the academy make for an interesting side note when the squad looks a little light.
You’d expect Alfie Bell to get some gametime somewhere this year and 6ft8 homegrown locks are pretty hard to come by.
Tunney, Cripps, Fisilau and Fin Brown will all be just behind Curran, waiting in the wings, Brown has the size for 6 and will get some experience playing at Moseley this year - the other 3 might all end up at 7 eventually so not sure if all will push on to the senior squad.
Mario Pichardie has also potentially left, have seen that he released a highlights video a while back and hasn’t appeared in any of the behind the scenes footage.
Ma’asi White will get some more experience in the centres this year and although I’ve not seen him play, Feyi-Waboso was thought highly of at Cardiff might be next in line for a run on the wing if we’re very short, Bacon has featured before and Rakodrava looks to have some potential.
In the props with Nearchou, Pleasants, Hardwick and McArthur we also look well set for the future.
The academy is definitely bearing fruit but it’s time for these guys to take squad positions now and be solid options making us look stronger on paper - especially in the centres.
I'll be honest, I've not seen a lot of the academy lads play. Ma'asi-White and Fisilau looked useful in the couple of games in the U20s Summer tournament that I caught. Ma'asi-White in particular looked a pretty explosive runner, although I did feel his distribution was a "work on".
Great to see / hear that we are genuinely bringing through quality, and if they are the next cabs off the rank then good luck to them!
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Could someone please remind me what year relegation is likely to be re-introduced, I've forgotten what has been said about it.
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Found it: Premiership Rugby confirmed yesterday that it plans to reinstate relegation from the 2023-24 season, introducing a play-off between the Championship winners and the top-flight's bottom side.(dated 2 Jun 2022)
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Talking fine margins but for me Cruse is still our best hooker. And if we’re talking a fully available squad surely Koch has to start. Completely agree re Cardall - I think he’s outstanding.
I agree. I'd want Oghre on the bench as he can cover 2 and back row. But definitely Cruse to start.
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I’m inclined to think that a fit Mills starts at 12 - and if we get the added bonus of him being fit and in form he is one of the best around.
Odendaal probably then starts at 13 ahead of Spink.
Having all three of the above fit at the same time could be the challenge.
Mills pulling strings to put Odogwu at 13 through gaps would be a wonderful thing though in my humble opinion
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pedantic
I recognise that Shibboleth.
Shibboleth denotes plenty............
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pedantic
I recognise that Shibboleth.
Shibboleth denotes plenty............
I've always used it in this Wikipedia sense and in most dictionaries its one the first meanings given:
A shibboleth (/ˈʃɪbəlɛθ, -ɪθ/ (listen);[1][2] Biblical Hebrew: שִׁבֹּלֶת, romanized: šībōleṯ) is any custom or tradition, usually a choice of phrasing or even a single word, that distinguishes one group of people from another.[3][4][5] Shibboleths have been used throughout history in many societies as passwords, simple ways of self-identification, signaling loyalty and affinity, maintaining traditional segregation, or protecting from real or perceived threats.
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pedantic
I recognise that Shibboleth.
Shibboleth denotes plenty............
What on earth are you talking about?? ;)
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Love the annual optimism.
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact. The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
It's fine thinking we'll have him for Europe..we're in the Challenge cup and likely will be next season..
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.
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So?
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Love the annual optimism.
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact. The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
It's fine thinking we'll have him for Europe..we're in the Challenge cup and likely will be next season..
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.
Look on the bright side, you may not have to worry about any of that if the rumours are anything like accurate.
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Love the annual optimism.
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact. The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
It's fine thinking we'll have him for Europe..we're in the Challenge cup and likely will be next season..
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.
Woah, who got out of the grumpy side of the bed this morning? (well, me, actually ;D ;D ;D )
Rugby isn't so much about the individual players, it is about whether they can play as a team. That was our biggest 'failure' last year (I won't look at previous years). Watching all the pre-season training videos, it appears to be 99% about conditioning, so I don't see anything that might make me think the teamwork will improve. This is a team sport, not one where coaching wins games (that isn't to say that poor coaching will not lose games, because it will).
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Love the annual optimism.
Which is of course counter-balanced by the annual (and on-going) pessimism ;)
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact.
Hard to disagree there but then so are quite a few clubs. Personally I don't agree with some people's view that we have a top 4 squad, I think our squad looks pretty mid-table, but there is still plenty of quality there that could have a great season.
For me one of the joys of supporting a sports team is the excitement and anticipation. I'd find it quite pointless and dull if I always expected us to be dross - I'd rather look for those shoots of optimism and hope.
The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Odendaal hasn't been brought in as a marquee name and I think the fact that the fans of each club he has left have been saddened and wanted him to stay speaks in favour of him. He looks to me to be Mitchell's defensive leader in the backs - he'll make tackles, get over the ball and hopefully keep our defence a lot tighter than it has been.
Will we miss Fekitoa in the back? He only started 7 games last season and didn't really shine so I'm happy to have Odendaal, Mills, Spink and Odogwu as centre options - plus the youngsters.
The coaches have also clearly noticed our poor ball-handling, hence why the first couple of weeks training have focused so much on passing and handling so at least they are trying to work on the issue.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
I would disagree with a lot of this. Last year, Koch played for SA in the RC and Autumn Internationals and still managed to rack up almost 1400 mins in the Premiership, more than any of our Props (West was highest for us with 868 mins) and in fact more than any other Saracen front row and the forth most of any of their forwards (only Billy, Isiekwe and Earl played more mins). Blackett has been clear and I think we can generally agree that the scrum was weak last year, we won fewer penalties and gave away more than almost any other team. He has looked to strengthen an area that needed it and has secured one of the top 5 tight heads in the world. We have also got another international TH to back him up and Martinez at LH. For me, this has been good recruitment. I might be wrong, it might not work out that way but the figure suggest he should get plenty of game time.
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.
I think we have to be pragmatic, we aren't going to see sparkle in the backs. The coaches are looking to our set-piece. We are going to kick, scrum and maul and look to have a smothering defence that goes hard at the breakdown - somewhere in between the Leicester and Sarries game plans (in my opinion). We have recruited for that.
Do I think we will win the league? Nope. Do I hope we could pull off some great wins and upsets and force ourselves into contention at the end? Yeah, we might and I will be optimistic that can get a win each weekend.
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We are not weaker.
The youngest players have more games under their belt. - Atkinson, Porter, Wolstenholme, Barbeary, Cardell, Spink etc
The players who are in their mid-20's should now be coming into their prime - Willis J and T, West, Oghre, [Alo], Minozzi
There are no decaying stars in the squad that get selected regardless of form.
We have far fewer injuries than at the beginning of last season, and those that are injured are well down the road to recovery and rehab.
The recruitment around tight-head is designed to deal with the absence of Koch, and we will lose few players to Internationals.
The coaching team has no new arrivals, and the roles are more established.
We then need the intensity we showed when we won a string of games last season to be sustained.
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Last season the squad performance was a lot less than the sum of the parts, in no small part because of the number of long term injuries and who was injured. In a lot of games the team was also less than the some of the parts, in some of those games because of all the injury driven chopping and changing and bringing in loan players at short notice.
This season if the squad performs to its potential I don’t see why we shouldn’t get top 6-10, ie around 8, if it performs well then I don’t wee why we can’t get 5-6 and be able to realistically dream of 4.
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Last season the squad performance was a lot less than the sum of the parts, in no small part because of the number of long term injuries and who was injured. In a lot of games the team was also less than the some of the parts, in some of those games because of all the injury driven chopping and changing and bringing in loan players at short notice.
This season if the squad performs to its potential I don’t see why we shouldn’t get top 6-10, ie around 8, if it performs well then I don’t wee why we can’t get 5-6 and be able to realistically dream of 4.
Nice
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How marvellous and unusual at this moment to read something hopeful and optimistic. Thank you Jac A and Backdoc. The only correction I would make is to Backdoc's contribution .... Porter and Willis T are exactly the same in age. Well, Will is all of 4 weeks older than Tom. Sorry - being picky!
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Love the annual optimism.
In the real world, we are weaker than last season, that's surely a fact. The backs remain unchanged other than an average SA 12, who either didn't start or didn't finish for his club last season and what I saw in his appearances, left me flat as a pancake. If 12's his best position, I'd hate to see him at 13. He'll soon be coached to drop, knock on and pass behind oncoming players soon enough anyway.
Whilst Kock is a very (very) good player, he's a terrible signing and you have to ask why Sarries let him go...Sarries being the inverse to Wasps in their recruitment and coaching ability.
Let's be clear, he won't have asked for a move to Wasps. Sarries will have offered less than he wants based on shrood planning, leaving Wasps to jump on yet another poor recruitment decision, opening the cheque book to strengthen an area of relative strength.
We have opted to sign a player that this season we'll be lucky to see before 2023...just before heading into a world cup year! The guy doesn't even need a locker.
Sarries clearly saw there is little value in retaining him, leaving some other mugs to pick him up. I'd love to know the next two seasons cost per game stats.
It's fine thinking we'll have him for Europe..we're in the Challenge cup and likely will be next season..
Great players don't make great signings. We needed sparkle in the backs, not a part time big name forward.
Oh dear 😅
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I agree in a small part with Hymenoptera. It is not that Koch is a poor value signing or anything, I think he will be fine VFM. But, our backs last year were the worst I have ever seen in B and G and we have not recruited enough here. I think as Jac says we have recruited for a different game plan. I also think it is a huge tactical blunder for the club, the game plan is a pound shop Tigers and I think it is
the game plan of a DOR looking to not get sacked and looking for 'progresss' of a couple of placed not one aiming to win pots in a couple of years.
There is hope. If Minozzi comes good he is class. Mills is class when fit. Dobby can't be as bad for he was at times. Odogwu is a point of difference. But a couple of new injuries and we will look threadbare. Lots is a gamble with the squad as is. Maybe it will all click. But equally it could go the other way and we needs bums on seats. That means sparkling backs or wins most weeks.
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I agree in a small part with Hymenoptera. It is not that Koch is a poor value signing or anything, I think he will be fine VFM. But, our backs last year were the worst I have ever seen in B and G and we have not recruited enough here. I think as Jac says we have recruited for a different game plan. I also think it is a huge tactical blunder for the club, the game plan is a pound shop Tigers and I think it is
the game plan of a DOR looking to not get sacked and looking for 'progresss' of a couple of placed not one aiming to win pots in a couple of years.
There is hope. If Minozzi comes good he is class. Mills is class when fit. Dobby can't be as bad for he was at times. Odogwu is a point of difference. But a couple of new injuries and we will look threadbare. Lots is a gamble with the squad as is. Maybe it will all click. But equally it could go the other way and we needs bums on seats. That means sparkling backs or wins most weeks.
I am going to sound like a stuck record - both Mills, Odogwu and also Fek were long term injured. Jimmy was a horrible bottleneck and was targeted by oppo defences. Dobby had lost form and wasn't providing the sort of ball that we have come to expect. Jacob got 2 reds which, later in the season, might not even have seen a yellow. Charlie was half crocked with a pound or two of strapping on his leg. It's no wonder the wings never saw the ball. H'optera has taken an acute dislike to Odendaal and is knocking him before he's even pulled on a Wasps' jersey. I may be a hopeless optimist but let's at least see a game or three before spreading alarm and despondency.
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How marvellous and unusual at this moment to read something hopeful and optimistic. Thank you Jac A and Backdoc. The only correction I would make is to Backdoc's contribution .... Porter and Willis T are exactly the same in age. Well, Will is all of 4 weeks older than Tom. Sorry - being picky!
Yes, but it is about more than chronological age. Alo is getting on a bit but is pretty fresh, and his career trajectory will differ from, say Charlie Atkinson. Tom Willis has already played ?? >50 games I think. Porter has been a starter for just over half a season.
Getting a team full of chaps who won a world cup 7 years ago may look good on paper but may be unbalanced in all sorts of ways. A good squad will feel that most of the players around them are still improving.
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Completely agree Backdoc. Tom is more mature and rugby experienced, especially internationally during his Academy years.
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Hymonentera I think there are numerous reasons that we are stronger - if the comparison is to last year. 1) We started last season with a serious injury roll call of Launchbury, Willis, Odogwu, West, Robson and to a lesser extent Barbeary. This year that is Stooke. 2) Atkinson and Spink have had valuable game time. 3) Recruitment. Outgoing I don’t think we’ll miss Fekitoa. Gopperth was fantastic but had come to the end of his road. Toomaga-Allen good personality for the group but not a great prop. Then we’ve lost Scholtz, Watson, Miller, Gaskell, Young, Fifita, Anderson and Le Bourgeois. Young was quality but with respect, intentional or not, the others make it possible to promote youngsters. I think incoming Koch, Ryan, Odendaal and McDonald are better than what we lost. Haydon-Wood could be a wildcard and Martinez will be like a new signing. If somehow Minozzi and Mills can stay fit they will be too. Agree totally that our back play was atrocious last year. It may be we win via slightly different means (forwards) than a lot of Wasps fans would like. But I’d be amazed if in the linear measure of points gained we’re not better off next year.
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I think Oghre will start at 2, and then it's an interesting call between Cruse and Frosty. 9 times out of 10 I'd start Tom over Alfie, but Lee doesn't seem to agree.
I think Burger will start at 12, but it's not certain. Big questions at 10 and 15. I could see both Charlie and Will playing, but that does leave us open to losing one of them to injury.
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I can't see the point of dismissing the season before its started because Wasps didn't sign anyone deemed sufficiently good.
I bet not many Tigers fans were looking forward to last season with a side that had barely escaped relegation & hadn't made any galactico signings, but look what happened?
I'm more interested in what the coaches are going to do differently to enable the players Wasps do have to perform to the level that we know they can.
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I think Oghre will start at 2, and then it's an interesting call between Cruse and Frosty. 9 times out of 10 I'd start Tom over Alfie, but Lee doesn't seem to agree.
I think Burger will start at 12, but it's not certain. Big questions at 10 and 15. I could see both Charlie and Will playing, but that does leave us open to losing one of them to injury.
I'm going to be a heretic. I don't think Alfie is our 2nd best 8, that's Brad.
At the moment Alfie appears to be a solution looking for a problem as he doesn't seem to have a natural best position. Wherever he goes it appears to unbalance the side and I think some (a very small part) of last seasons problems were around trying to get him in to the game and pander to Eddie.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and will go on to big things, I just think he and the coaches need to get together, decide where he naturally fits in best and work on that and not necessarily mad Eddie's theories about playing players out of position.
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I’d argue technically Carr is a better 8. But Barbeary has X factor. Fact is we’ll need them all.
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Good point, Shugs. How could I forget Nemo?
Hopefully he’ll get more game time this season.
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Not many mentioning our new 10.
For me the forwards take care of themselves. I mean, if anything, too much choice outside of 6n/AI, and if Eddie proves to be his normal self- we could still have a full compliment to choose from.
The backs- will we play off 9 or 10?
Will we look for a second five eighths as a ball playing receiver as they say down under? Or is it bosh through 12, try to bring 15 into the line? What do we even want from 15?
Where is Odogwu going ot play and frankly what happened last year when Lee actively avoided our only point of difference back when Dobby was misfiring. More questions than answers and who starts at 10 with Jacob out, and when fit where are we looking to play Jacob?
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I just wonder how much non playing 'issues' are affecting the players thinking at the moment. I hope that they are being given the the respect and facts that they deserve.
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I just wonder how much non playing 'issues' are affecting the players thinking at the moment. I hope that they are being given the the respect and facts that they deserve.
Haha, I started this thread to talk about something other than the "non-playing issues" :)
FWIW, on the back-row debate, I think Nemo is criminally under-used. He's a serious player, ex-Springbok, and can't get a look in at the moment!
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I think Nemo is criminally under-used.
Don't disagree but when you have Brad, Jack & Tom/Alfie, who do you drop for him?
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I just wonder how much non playing 'issues' are affecting the players thinking at the moment. I hope that they are being given the the respect and facts that they deserve.
Haha, I started this thread to talk about something other than the "non-playing issues" :)
FWIW, on the back-row debate, I think Nemo is criminally under-used. He's a serious player, ex-Springbok, and can't get a look in at the moment!
Carr's problem here is his versatility.
He's seen as very good in all 3 back row positions, but is he better than our existing options in any one of them?
Would you drop Shields for Carr at 6?
Jack is presumably our starting 7
I feel Tom is better specialist No.8
Alfie has an X factor that few others have
As soon as any one of this is unavailable, Carr steps up, plays any position and we don't feel any weaker, but in a must win game I'd struggle not to start Brad, Jack and Tom
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I think Nemo is criminally under-used.
Don't disagree but when you have Brad, Jack & Tom/Alfie, who do you drop for him?
Yeah, what he said.... But I used more words
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Ah, that's why Lee is paid to make those decisions and I'm not!
I'd probably advocate more rotation. I know we were forced into decisions last term by who wasn't broken, but if we have the luxury of choice then we can give Nemo more game time and rest Tom and Alfie more. Brad too, he played a phenomenal number of games last time.
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I'd probably advocate more rotation.
Again, don't disagree, but most players:
a. want to play every week
b, often need to play every week to keep their performance levels up
hopefully a fit squad will mean any players with niggles or minor injuries can be rested and there's quality players to come in for them.
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Given our strengths and weaknesses is it feasible for Carr to play second row? I vaguely recall this happening at some point - although maybe as an emergency mid game. Completely agree about his under use - he’s a fantastic player.
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Given our strengths and weaknesses is it feasible for Carr to play second row? I vaguely recall this happening at some point - although maybe as an emergency mid game. Completely agree about his under use - he’s a fantastic player.
It would be more likely Brad has a stint in the 2nd row than Nemo.
I fancy Kibirige to get his form back this season leaving Odogwu to have a proper go at nailing down the Outside Centre berth.
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Given our strengths and weaknesses is it feasible for Carr to play second row? I vaguely recall this happening at some point - although maybe as an emergency mid game. Completely agree about his under use - he’s a fantastic player.
It would be more likely Brad has a stint in the 2nd row than Nemo.
I would think so too.
I fancy Kibirige to get his form back this season leaving Odogwu to have a proper go at nailing down the Outside Centre berth.
Yes indeed. He was lethal. That was an absolutely horrible KO by Yarde.
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Given our strengths and weaknesses is it feasible for Carr to play second row? I vaguely recall this happening at some point - although maybe as an emergency mid game. Completely agree about his under use - he’s a fantastic player.
It would be more likely Brad has a stint in the 2nd row than Nemo.
I fancy Kibirige to get his form back this season leaving Odogwu to have a proper go at nailing down the Outside Centre berth.
Can't see us starting Brad in the second row unless we've (again) got major injury issues. He's a big lad, but not "lock" big!
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Had a good chat with one of Wasps "back room" staff today who was very positive about a lot of the points that we have all been a bit "concerned" about.
Hopefully quite a bit of "positive news" to be released up to the start of the season.
Also it seems that Jacob's injury isn't as bad as first thought so really hope that is the case for his and everyone else's sake as well.
The players have all had their photo's done and had a day at a water park and Stookie is walking OK so presumably starting rehab on a similar basis to Jack, Launchers and Theo last year.
Looking forward to the season now!
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I see Michael van Vuuren and Zac Nearchou have been added to the squad.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-discuss-long-term-future-24803460
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Van Vuuren made a good impression I think - gives us 4 hookers which is quite a lot.
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Maybe allows Oghre to cover the back row when/if needed.
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For as long as I can recall, every season that Wasps have gone into with 3 hookers in the squad, we've ended up having to bring someone in on loan. Last season we got through six in the Premiership and another two featured in the Premiership Cup.
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For as long as I can recall, every season that Wasps have gone into with 3 hookers in the squad, we've ended up having to bring someone in on loan. Last season we got through six in the Premiership and another two featured in the Premiership Cup.
Blimey, eight? That's a Prem footballers idea of a good weekend.😁
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Wasps were involved in coaching at Bloxham school (yesterday I think).
Photo of Jacob. You can see (just) his left knee is still strapped up. Don't know how long is the expected recovery.
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More photos at the Tweet:
𝑹𝒆𝒔𝒊𝒅𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒊𝒂𝒍 2022 ✅
What an amazing week
@WaspsCommunity
have had delivering the 2022 Residential, topped off by a visit to the Training Ground and coaching from the team.
Big thanks to Bloxham School for hosting!
Until next year...
https://twitter.com/WaspsRugby/status/1560725791364759552?s=20&t=5zay69SmGwpn-0_lzSYYgw