Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on December 01, 2023, 06:58:58 AM
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The month of decision - at least as far as the RFU have said!
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Decision ?
Announcement maybe.
But if anything is scheduled to be announced in December you would expect (hope!) it all to have been agreed behind the scenes already.
IMO if there's still decisions to be made, then we really are in trouble!
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If it took them about a year to decide on the "franchise" model for P2, and it was soundly rejected by the Championship clubs last month then I can't see how any agreed announcement will be ready for this month.
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Not expecting much. They seem to have hitched their wagon to a set of assumptions that will never be. Sweeney and his mob are fairly clueless but they?ve also inherited a terrible situation in terms of the game overall.
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Well half way through and only Itoje being saved for the EAs been published. Like most I suspect the sweet end of bu##er all to come from the RFU.
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I expect the only decision in play is whether to have the 20 or 30 years old malt with Christmas dinner around a roaring fire kept going by Sweeney throwing 20?s on it from his ludicrous salary.
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I see the European Courts declared UEFA's blocking of the proposed football Euro club super league, (or whatever it was going to be called) to be unlawful. Assumedly this means it would be illegal for the RFU or World Rugby to block a new Wasps or Wuss team joining the URC (should such a thing ever happen).
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I see the European Courts declared UEFA's blocking of the proposed football Euro club super league, (or whatever it was going to be called) to be unlawful. Assumedly this means it would be illegal for the RFU or World Rugby to block a new Wasps or Wuss team joining the URC (should such a thing ever happen).
Correct. It throws aside the gentlemen's agreement around country controlled sport, where there is one body to control each sport per country. A not unreasonable exemption to competition and free trade laws, provided those bodies act reasonably and in the best interests of all. But they do not, and they are now going to reap the consequences of that. The politicians, almost certainly long used to accepting bungs on this matter, will stay silent and bleat that it is the courts and lawyers doing this, and what can they do?
In England, it could give the PRL the right to jetison the RFU, and stop paying them money. I can see that happening.
What then for national teams? Where do they draw the players from? Would the top French clubs try to follow suit?
What about TV 'rights'.
It could get messy. I hope it does. Did Kerry Packer truly change cricket? I think he did. For the better? I doubt it. The rich got richer. It went behind a paywall and lost viewership and fans. But, the local game and youth game is probably stronger for not having the top layer ruling the roost.
Rugby would be so much better off without the PRL clubs being involved at all. What about the academies? I suspect (most of) the PRL clubs would be happy to dispose of their community involvement tomorrow, and instead let others organize that at no cost to the PRL.
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Mentions of Prem 2 applications again in this article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67772805
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This is the big reveal. This is it. A new second tier is to be magically set up with no discernible funding.
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Am I reading this right? Is this a glimmer of hope? Has Someone in the rarified atmosphere of the RFU finally cottoned on to the possibility of rugby in England disappearing? It looks and reads too good to be true. Have I completely misread this statement? Is it light at the end of the tunnel or is it just another train coming from the other direction?
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In England, it could give the PRL the right to jetison the RFU, and stop paying them money. I can see that happening.
Why would the PRL want to do that? The ONLY money in rugby is in the international game, the RFU pay money to PRL, not the other way around surely?
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In England, it could give the PRL the right to jetison the RFU, and stop paying them money. I can see that happening.
Why would the PRL want to do that? The ONLY money in rugby is in the international game, the RFU pay money to PRL, not the other way around surely?
+1
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Wasps, London Irish and Worcester will be offered chance to return in new Premiership 2 despite opposition from Championship clubs... as RFU reveals radical pan to save rugby with new two-tier franchise system
RFU propose a two-tier franchise plan for the Premiership and Championship
Premiership sides Wasps, London Irish and Worcester all went bust last season
The Championship recently voted against the adoption of a franchise system
By Chris Foy for the Daily Mail
Published: 18:30, 21 December 2023 | Updated: 00:32, 22 December 2023
The RFU have proposed a two-tier franchise plan for the Premiership and Championship despite opposition from the latter, to reshape and save the domestic game.
Wasps, London Irish and Worcester, who all went bust last season, will be free to bid for a place in a new second tier of English rugby, again against the wishes of Championship clubs.
While the Championship recently voted against the adoption of a franchise system, the RFU are pressing ahead with the concept.
They will invite applications to snap up a franchise place from February, with the aim of finalising a new structure in June, for 2025-26 onwards.
The union?s hope is that enough clubs or franchises come forward that a league of up to 14 teams can be formed, as a sustainable, professional second tier, but details of central funding cannot be confirmed until commercial viability reports have been finalised and received.
Premiership sides Wasps, London Irish and Worcester all went bust last season
Premiership sides Wasps, London Irish and Worcester all went bust last season
Wasps could return in Premiership 2 as part of the RFU's revamp of the second tier
If there are not enough applications, the plan will be abandoned, but the RFU have warned that they won?t simply increase funding to the existing Championship clubs who don?t apply to be part of Premiership 2.
The hope is that promotion and relegation can be re-established between the top two tiers, but one stumbling block is that the Premiership clubs have insisted that newcomers have to purchase P-shares in the league and, in the past, figures of ?20-?35million have been suggested as the asking price.
Steve Diamond, the former Sale and Worcester director of rugby, has been hired as an independent consultant, and when asked if the Warriors, Wasps and Irish should clear all debts before being allowed back to the top of the game, he said: ?If those clubs do everything within the legal terms with their administrators, why would you not want those brands into your league? Why would you not want Wasps?
?If we are going to try and commercialise ?Premiership 2?, or whatever we call it - if you were having brands, Wasps were the biggest brand of the three that went down, probably then London Irish, thirdly Worcester.
Now only Worcester, out of the three, fulfil criteria as we sit here because they?ve got their own stadium. The rest of them are nomadic. So they have got a lot of work to do.
The RFU are open to applications from areas of the country not represented at professional level, such as the south coast or East Anglia.
Conor O?Shea, the RFU?s director of performance rugby, said: ?I think, personally, it?s going to be difficult. We have no preconceptions, but the hurdles someone would have to get through would be very difficult.
'But, again, why wouldn?t we look at everything to do something different? Rather than before we start, going, ?No, it?s not going to happen?.?
Steve Diamond, the former Sale and Worcester director of rugby, has been hired as an independent consultant
Conor O?Shea, the RFU?s director of performance rugby, believes the new plans could prove difficult to implement
Bill Sweeney, the RFU chief executive, added: ?We?d love to see more clubs in the north; a better geographical spread.
?If Darlington Mowden Park came to us and said, ?Here?s our investor plan, here?s our commercial credibility and we?re accessing X amount of players from around the country, this is our playing squad?, we?d look at that as a proper expression of interest.?
Sweeney revealed that talks are taking place about potentially removing the expensive P-share entry barrier, saying: ?It?s not ?20m anymore, but that is an active conversation.
'They want this second tier because they want the bottom of the Premiership to be honest and have that jeopardy. They don?t want to see clubs cut away at the bottom and not being competitive.?
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RFU backs Wasps to return in 'Premiership 2' despite opposition from Championship rivals
Ruling body at loggerheads with second tier over plan that could also lifeline to other 'phantom' clubs such as London Irish and Worcester
Daniel Schofield, Deputy Rugby Union Correspondent 21 December 2023 ? 6:00pm
The Rugby Football Union has told Championship clubs that it will not budge on its vision of instigating a franchise-based Premiership 2, including a potentially reformed Wasps.
The tender process for the new second tier, starting in the 2025-26 season, will close in February despite the Championship clubs indicating they will not apply to join it. Last month the clubs released a statement objecting to the possible ?non-meritocratic entry? of phantom clubs such as Wasps, London Irish and Worcester Warriors, who all went into administration last season along with Jersey Reds.
The RFU insists it wants to work with the Championship to create minimum operating standards that would cover everything from stadiums to player welfare. The ruling body believes that would create a more sustainable, marketable second tier as well as a surer path to promotion to the Premiership. However, the RFU, which slashed funding to the Championship from ?600,000 to ?160,000, is adamant that it will reopen the purse strings only if clubs accept its take-it-or-leave-it offer.
?What they?ve said is that if they don?t opt in, they would rather be at the top of the community game pyramid,? Bill Sweeney, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, said. ?I?m not entirely sure why they would say that, and why you wouldn?t want to be part of this. If you are a Coventry or an Ealing, why wouldn?t you want to be part of this? If you?d prefer to be top of the community game pyramid with your normal promotion and relegation, it?s not really the performance model we are investing in.
?If we didn?t have enough clubs to form a Prem 2, we wouldn?t have a Prem 2. If we get two clubs that are interested and everybody else says no, then you revert to the status quo and you lose this opportunity. But we?re not going to invest in something which is uninvestable.?
Part of that vision includes allowing a reformed club such as Wasps to jump from the bottom tier of the pyramid up to the second without the process of promotion. Any phantom club would be required to repay their rugby creditors, however. Former Worcester boss Steve Diamond, who has been appointed as an advisor to the RFU, says that their entry should be welcomed by other clubs. ?Why would you not want those brands into your league?? Diamond said. ?Why would you not want Wasps?? Sweeney also indicated that the RFU would reject any proposal to incorporate Wasps, who are set on building a home in Sevenoaks in Kent, or London Irish into the United Rugby Championship.
The fraught negotiations over Premiership 2 are running concurrently with the proposed Professional Game Partnership between the RFU and Premiership Rugby, which is seen as critical to building a winning England team and improving the development of young players. The RFU readily admits that the pathway had to be rebuilt after being ?ripped apart? between 2016 and 2019, and it wants to guarantee game time to under-18s and under-20s players at club level.
As Telegraph Sport revealed, the PGP will usher in hybrid contracts, with England head coach Steve Borthwick be able to select an Enhanced Elite Player Squad of up to 25 players that will offer an ?enhanced level of support? to their top internationals.
These contracts would range from one to three years, paying players a flat rate of around ?160,000 a year to encourage them to remain in the Premiership. This would give Borthwick and England?s backroom team greater control over a player?s medical and conditioning plans, as well as enabling them to draw up an Individual Player Programme with the club. However, this would fall short of Borthwick being able to determine a player?s position such as Marcus Smith, who was deployed at full-back at this year?s World Cup but has returned to playing at fly-half with Harlequins.
England head coach Steve Borthwick; RFU backs Wasps to return in 'Premiership 2' despite opposition from Championship rivals
Head coach Steve Borthwick will have greater control over England players under the new governance structure being drawn up
The contract model appeared to fall at its first hurdle when wing Henry Arundell chose to stay in France with Racing 92 rather than return to the Premiership, although Conor O?Shea, the RFU?s executive director of performance, says that the governing body was relaxed with this development. ?He hasn?t played a huge amount of rugby because of various circumstances through Covid and being a young players and injury,? O?Shea said. ?He is a massive-profile player so he feels that a couple of years there, not under the spotlight so to speak, will be good for him, and come back in 2026. But we want the best players here, full stop.?
With Owen Farrell stepping back from international duty and Kyle Sinckler citing concerns over the support system, O?Shea also admits more can be done to help players in the spotlight. ?We just want to support him [Farrell] and all the time are looking to improve the wrap-around care for players,? O?Shea said. ?That is the most important thing. It is getting more and more difficult and febrile to operate in some of these environments, so it is something we need to look at really carefully to make sure we are best in class when it comes to that.?
As part of the PGP, the RFU and Premiership clubs will implement a centralised strength and conditioning programme so they all share the same metrics. O?Shea also confirmed the RFU intends to implement a regular series of England A games following the match against Portugal on Feb 25 at Welford Road.
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We're not bound by European courts now, are we? Any decision would be at best advisory.
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/dec/22/rugby-union-rfu-three-wise-men-gifts-revamp-england
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Now only Worcester, out of the three, fulfil criteria as we sit here because they?ve got their own stadium. The rest of them are nomadic. So they have got a lot of work to do.
Hang on, who owns Sixways?
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We're not bound by European courts now, are we? Any decision would be at best advisory.
No we're not, unless we choose to be as apart of any agreements with the EU. However it does set a precedent that someone might want to argue in our own Supreme Court if they wanted to join another league.
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RugbyInsideLine
@RugbyInsideLine
🏴 BREAKING: The statement by the Championship clubs makes key points including
- Ending barrier of entry to Prem
- Highlighting funding cuts of 75%
- ?RFU has chosen to criticise our attitude to their flawed proposals?
- Not interested in franchises
- Champ is investible
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TBT,
Loxwood Holdings does, and that company is controlled by Chris Holland. IIRC
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Championship clubs hit back at RFU's second tier plan
Second-tier sides have been in talks with RFU over future of the club game after demise of Jersey Reds, London Irish, Wasps and Worcester
Gavin Mairs, Chief Rugby Union Correspondent 22 December 2023 ? 5:12pm
The Championship clubs have rejected the Rugby Football Union?s plans for a new ?Premiership 2? competition, claiming they are not interested in a league that ?follows a franchise or selection-based model.?
The RFU this week unveiled plans for a franchise-based second tier to replace the championship, including a potentially reformed Wasps, with clubs invited to apply for a tender process by February, with the new league to start in 2025/26.
However, in a strongly-worded statement, the Championship clubs dismissed the plans, insisting that the RFU and Premiership Rugby must adopt a ?whole game solution? rather than introduce a franchise system at the expense of meritocracy.
?The Championship clubs are not interested in a league that follows a franchise or selection-based model,? said the statement.
?That means a league in which clubs are chosen to be part of a new tier two because of a commercial, geographic or financial consideration, rather than gaining membership by virtue of promotion and relegation.
?Meritocracy is a longstanding principle of rugby in this country, even if franchises might work elsewhere and in other sports. Basing entry to Tier 2 on minimum operating standards or on the perceived importance of their ?brand?, rather than merit, would de-prioritize the quality of rugby, of coaching and player development in Tier 2 at a time when Tier 1 is already cutting squads back.?
The RFU insists it wants to work with the Championship to create minimum operating standards that would cover everything from stadiums to player welfare and create a more sustainable, marketable second tier as well as a surer path to promotion to the Premiership.
But the Championship clubs hit back, claiming that the decision by the RFU to slash their funding from ?600,000 to ?160,000, was a critical factor in the governing body failing to commercialise the second tier.
?We share the RFU?s view that a second tier must be viable and of the highest possible standard,? the clubs added. ?This requires continual improvements over time on and off the field, but the critical point, which the RFU knows, is that these improvements have to be developed and paid for.
?Unfortunately, while so little funding is allocated towards the second tier in general, our attitude has to be progressive, and clubs need time to build a business plan. We have constantly urged earlier disclosure of funding plans to allow time for our clubs to plan with confidence.
?The RFU has now chosen to criticise our attitude to their flawed proposals, which we do not believe represent a whole-game solution. Not only do we need a whole-game solution, but we need a whole-game response to the proposals laid out by the RFU, so in the New Year we will be making public our views on the details ? as far as we can ascertain them ? of the Premiership 2 plan.?
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Let the battle of social media words commence, and may victory be delivered to the one with the most likes and followers.
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Allow me to summarise. In order to avoid verbosity and my usual sesquipedalian prose.
We are fucked.
Royally.
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Allow me to summarise. In order to avoid verbosity and my usual sesquipedalian prose.
We are fucked.
Royally.
As is every other club with ambitions to be promoted to the Premiership.