Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on October 16, 2022, 08:33:29 AM
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Premiership Rugby clubs at war over salary cap https://mol.im/a/11319491 via https://dailym.ai/android
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If ever there was a time for the RFU to grow a pair and step in this is it. PRL has been the core of this mess, and with 3-4 clubs (and we can guess who) looking to destroy the league in pursuit of short term success it is something that needs stopping immediately.
There is no point talking of a 10 team division when 3-4 are happy to see the rest crumble.
Toxic
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Isn't this what the RFU actually want though?
They've wanted more access to players for years, but the clubs have been too strong to strike the deals that the RFU have really wanted.
They're now watching the club have disintegrate a bit and waiting for the right time to step in when they'll have the strongest hand to play.
They'll see a smaller league as meaning the best players will be more likely to play together, and decreased revenues will mean the clubs will be desperate for any handout they can get from the RFU.
Central contracts could be a very real solution... Although I'm not sure the RFU can afford that given how much Saracens already pay the likes of Farrell and Itoje
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Looking around, it appears four other clubs (Falcons, Irish, Gloucester and Tigers) are at the point where the owners have to decide whether they will, or can even afford to, pay HMRC and the players wages this month. Owners of Wasps and those other four all appear unwilling to place their clubs in to administration until HMRC issue winding up orders (in other words, to deflect criticism, they let HMRC take 'the blame' for hammering the final nail in to the coffin). If this is true (I have no reason to doubt the list), that would leave one club in the North (Sharks), one in the Midlands (Saints), two in London and three in the South West. It would also break the PRL and the RFU.
What has been the catalyst? I am not sure either Worcester or Wasps going under as such, but surely the response of the RFU (business as usual, nothing to see here, we are better off without those two clubs, happy to lose another club to take it to 10), and the fact that, of those clubs remaining, the majority (at least 6) want to increase the cap. Those four clubs who are struggling are now being shown in big large writing on the wall, the RFU and the other clubs don't want you around, they want you out of the playground.
We have no voice in this. Wasps have publicly said they cannot and will not pay HMRC. This is simply a low train wreck. The owners of those four clubs must already see that pouring in their own money at this stage is a pointless waste. We may see either the RFU going bust or imploding, or some other structure appearing to replace what has become inept and irrelevant.
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Assume you mean Gloucester in that opening paragraph?
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Looking around, it appears four other clubs (Falcons, Irish, Worcester and Tigers) are at the point where the owners have to decide whether they will, or can even afford to, pay HMRC and the players wages this month.
Any feel for when this might become public? A 7 team Premiership looks a bit lost.....
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Assume you mean Gloucester in that opening paragraph?
Yes, edited now.
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I am loathe to ask, but would it not be better for us if all those clubs gave up the ghost ASAP, thus leaving BT with a worthless league and the greedy bastards wanting to raise the cap with nobody to play with but themselves.
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Looking around, it appears four other clubs (Falcons, Irish, Worcester and Tigers) are at the point where the owners have to decide whether they will, or can even afford to, pay HMRC and the players wages this month.
Any feel for when this might become public? A 7 team Premiership looks a bit lost.....
It depends when each club has a deadline to pay by. Clearly wages would be the end of the month, so could be as late as October 31st. HMRC are likely to have payment points at the end of each month (so, September 30th), and if you miss them, they then ratchet up the penalties in pre-defined stages. I suspect Wasps may have stopped paying them as far back as July or August, and Worcester maybe a month earlier. Have those other clubs already stopped making payments, if so when? As with many things like this, it will likely be in slow motion, not a sudden all at once.
I see elsewhere chatter about mergers. Not going to happen. Players and staff need to get on with their lives, so as soon as they don't get paid, they are off and gone, many potentially lost as a generation to the sport (or, at least, the professional arm of it).
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I am loathe to ask, but would it not be better for us if all those clubs gave up the ghost ASAP, thus leaving BT with a worthless league and the greedy barstards wanting to raise the cap with nobody to play with but themselves.
Yes, but it is not in the nature of people with money to give up so easily. A slow, painful death is what will happen. If BT withdrew, then, yes, the house of cards would fall a lot faster.
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Gloucester finances supposedly ‘fine’ as per their CEO Bradley who yesterday was quoted as saying "We're in pretty good financial shape. We're heading towards operational break even, and that's a good place to be. We have a plan to pay off our DCMS loans while still spending to the salary cap. We're in a pretty good place.“
Not sure Glos should therefore be on list, but I accept club management are generally not to be believed re finances. We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
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We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
Just so. Operational break even. Not clearing the debts though. That is the issue. Heading towards ... means losing slightly less money each week.
The issue for all clubs is where is the money coming from to meet these huge debts to the Government that all now falling due for repayment, and how to fund the continuing losses? This is where Wasps were/are.
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Gloucester finances supposedly ‘fine’ as per their CEO Bradley who yesterday was quoted as saying "We're in pretty good financial shape. We're heading towards operational break even, and that's a good place to be. We have a plan to pay off our DCMS loans while still spending to the salary cap. We're in a pretty good place.“
Not sure Glos should therefore be on list, but I accept club management are generally not to be believed re finances. We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
Our CEO said something similar.
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I’m pretty sure once the RFU & PRL have managed to cast off another club and got it down to Saracen/Chiefs favoured 10, they will bend over backwards to keep it at that, and step in and save anyone from going under - probably with the excuse they have to act this time to keep the competition viable. They would retain the P share in that instance too.
The whole thing looks more and more like its being steered by a few of powerful clubs that the governing bodies have lost control over. Not sure I’d want to be one of the sides left as ‘fodder’ for the mighty, or if it will even be remotely interesting as a sport.
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Agreed, but who is next?
If there's another 4 in a similar boat, they're all looking at each other seeing which goes under first.
Worcester are gone, we're gone. That leaves 11 in the league.
The next one to go disappears too, then they close ranks and starting helping each other out.
So, if you're one of the next 4 clubs, do you want to take the risk that you're the first to go?
In fantasy land, they could all fine for administration at the same time and force something to happen..... Ain't gonna happen though
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I suspect the remaining owners (except the beloved few) are going to sell up ASAP. The stuffed blazers have made it clear that there will be no help if you need it, you will be milked for every penny and then dropped as soon as you stop funding them.
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They can look to sell, but the big question is who wants to invest in a loss making business in a legal where sides that go bust are asset striped before they even go into administration?
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We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
Just so. Operational break even. Not clearing the debts though. That is the issue. Heading towards ... means losing slightly less money each week.
The issue for all clubs is where is the money coming from to meet these huge debts to the Government that all now falling due for repayment, and how to fund the continuing losses? This is where Wasps were/are.
Weren’t we supposed to be close to operational break even before the financial crises started pushing up interest rates and HMRC demanded payment?
How will thos clubs who are close to break even deal with another 2% on interest rates?
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We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
Just so. Operational break even. Not clearing the debts though. That is the issue. Heading towards ... means losing slightly less money each week.
The issue for all clubs is where is the money coming from to meet these huge debts to the Government that all now falling due for repayment, and how to fund the continuing losses? This is where Wasps were/are.
Weren’t we supposed to be close to operational break even before the financial crises started pushing up interest rates and HMRC demanded payment?
How will thos clubs who are close to break even deal with another 2% on interest rates?
I wonder if teams will request to play games earlier in the day to save on energy bills?
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We’ve all learnt that the hard way.
Just so. Operational break even. Not clearing the debts though. That is the issue. Heading towards ... means losing slightly less money each week.
The issue for all clubs is where is the money coming from to meet these huge debts to the Government that all now falling due for repayment, and how to fund the continuing losses? This is where Wasps were/are.
Weren’t we supposed to be close to operational break even before the financial crises started pushing up interest rates and HMRC demanded payment?
How will thos clubs who are close to break even deal with another 2% on interest rates?
I wonder if teams will request to play games earlier in the day to save on energy bills?
That was suggested by RiL at the start of the energy crises. Nobody seemed interested.