Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on May 26, 2023, 05:39:14 PM
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Why the Premiership is desperate for a 10-team league
Rather than making a virtue out of necessity, an insider says 10 teams is optimal for the league, removing overlap with international games
By Gavin Mairs, Chief Rugby Union Correspondent 26 May 2023 ? 2:53pm
It is remarkable to consider it is not yet two years since the Rugby Football Union voted to approve the expansion of the Premiership to 14 clubs.
The historic vote by the governing body?s council in late June 2021 rubber-stamped what was called the ?Covid Recovery Plan?, including the suspension of promotion and relegation for the 2023-24 season.
The RFU said it hoped that the structural changes would ?improve the financial stability and sustainability of professional rugby during the next three seasons while also providing benefits for England and the community game?.
Then the sad demise of Wasps and Worcester Warriors early this season reduced the league to 11 clubs, a figure which is widely expected to drop to 10 next week unless the US consortium attempting to buy London Irish can deliver an approved takeover by the RFU?s deadline next Tuesday.
If London Irish do go under, plans for a 10-team Premiership will be fast-tracked for approval by the same RFU council next month that 24 months earlier had signed off on 14.
And yet, while no one wanted to get to this point in such a horrific and costly manner, a 10-team league is now seen as the optimal size for the league. That would be the case even if Wasps, Worcester and London Irish were in rude financial health and Ealing and Jersey owned stadiums with capacities above 10,000.
There is a perception, an unfair one, that Premiership Rugby is secretly pleased to see Wasps and Worcester (and possibly London Irish) go to the wall because it could allow it to accelerate those plans to reduce the league to 10 teams by a season.
What has yet to be fully explained is how and why this reduced format is now seen as the league structure that will breathe life back into the English club game when the 14-team league was heralded as way forward less than two years ago.
It is a journey that began in February of 2022. Simon Massie-Taylor, who had been appointed as the new Prem Rugby chief executive in the previous month, was tasked with drawing up a new strategic plan for the league.
Along with Martyn Phillips, Prem Rugby?s new chairman and the former chief executive of the Welsh Rugby Union, the pair set about asking fundamental, even existential questions.
Could the ?product? be improved to get it to a better place or was the model broken beyond repair or tinkering? The answer was clear. The possibility of sparking the league back into life with a couple of defibrillator pads was not deemed likely to be successful.
A huge piece of work was carried out over the coming months and the answer consistently came back that a 13-team league (as it was then) just did not work.
There were too many games that overlapped with international matches; clubs were not seeing enough of their England players, players were probably playing too much rugby, which was increasing the risk of injury; supporters were frustrated at not seeing their Test stars in action for their clubs and even when they were, they were at times not the ?best version of themselves? for key games.
The decision to reduce the league to 10 clubs would, in an instant, remove the overlaps between the Premiership and the international Test windows, increasing the number of games England stars will be available for their clubs.
'We are finally going to play less rugby'
As one insider close to the strategic review said, it would ?put a premium on quality not quantity. We would become the only league in the world that would say: 'We are finally going to play less rugby.'
?If you've got 10 teams, the chances are you've got concentration of players and coaches in those 10 teams. They should be high quality games. They should be well attended games, their games broadcasters would be very interested in from a supporter point of view, you're not having to be made to choose between international and Premiership games.
?Then there is the player welfare side of it, you can build proper loading, around playing and recovery, and perhaps most importantly you are removing conflict from the system. Rather than fight for players and eyeballs between club and country, we can move forward and grow the game together in an aligned season.?
The status quo is not working: time to be radical
If the financial turmoil of the last 12 months has proved anything, it is that the status quo is not working, underscoring the need to try something radical.
One of the biggest stumbling blocks however was to convince the clubs that it is in their best interests to give up a number of home fixtures that remain the lifeblood in terms of revenue for Premiership clubs.
Losing three home games is likely to be worth around ?1 million in lost revenue, and although a 10-team league would mean clubs receiving more central funding from the RFU, that would be a marginal figure. Central to his strategy is to ensure that there is no more creep from the international game, aside from calls for a fourth Test match in the November window for the new world league blueprint that will see a northern versus southern hemisphere ?grand final? every two years.'
?The bet we are making is that we have got to convince broadcasters, sponsors and supporters that when you come to our games, they are going to be really good games with really good players featuring in hard fought contests,? added the source.
?Also with a greater concentration of players whose workload is managed then the clubs should be more competitive in the European/Champions Cup tournaments and potentially a world club championship.
'The game is challenged but we can make it work'
?People are saying that the game is in trouble, but what I am saying is that while the game is challenged, we think it can be made to work and I think it will be now.?
Massie-Taylor and Phillips were able to win the argument, with the new strategy to move to 10 teams approved at a Prem Rugby board meeting in May last year, well in advance of the financial strife that would overwhelm Wasps and Worcester later in the year.
The overhaul is not to stop at the league structure. It is understood that the minimum standard criteria is also to be re-written to set a standard that a club needs to demonstrate on and off the pitch to be a Premiership club beyond a 10,000-capacity stadium. A sporting commission and regulations on financial sustainability are to be put in place.
?If you're going to be a Premiership club, you need to have a competitive squad, a great coaching team, a really good supporter experience on match day, be sustainable financially, and have a social media following,? added the insider.
'If you're a fan of a club, you can expect a really premium experience'
?Basically, you are saying that if you're a fan of this club, you can expect a really premium experience and we're going to be really disciplined about making sure we have that.?
Which, interestingly, does not shut the door on promotion and relegation. Both Prem Rugby and the RFU are aligned on the need for a strong second-tier, likely to be renamed Prem 2, and movement in a 'franchise system' would be possible.
?We need a broad criteria on what it takes to become a Premiership club and then if a club wins on the pitch, then up they come,? the insider added. ?But clearly, we are not as stable as we need to be, so we need to stabilise first and that will in turn attract new investment.?
The fixture schedule will also be revised, to ensure a sprinkling of ?big game? matches and local derbies enhance the narrative of the season in a coordinated fashion, while a hardship fund is to be established to help players who may lose their jobs during the transition.
?We haven?t got magic wands, but we are going to be in a much better place in a couple of years,? he added
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Are we standing in a wood?
No idea, I can't see anything beyond all these trees.
If that article was based on the truth behind the logic, and not just a piece of journo page filling fluff, what is blatantly missing is a detailed look at the numbers, and no evidence that 'making test stars available' for a higher percentage of far fewer games will bring in more fans, into some stadiums that are already full most weeks but are too small?
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Talk about ex post justification and inventing history
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Possibly not far away from a "Why the Premiership is desperate for an 8 team league"
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Perhaps a more pertinent article would be
?Why the Premiership is desperate?
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So desperate for a crowd today they, allegedly, released blue light tickets to general sale to all and sundry for a 2 quid booking fee.
That is until somebody who paid full wack shopped them.
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That will be all my favourite top 3 clubs gone. I really don't care to much about most of the rest - well, maybe Barff. And one other. I would love EAs t o curl up and die, as they should have done years ago.
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It?s difficult to understand how those that supposedly run things get things so wrong. How do we drive up income for clubs? Give them less games. How do we increase crowds and engagement in the game? Narrow the league to the same teams bashing each other each week. How do we govern the game? Take the P share off three clubs whilst allowing serial wrongdoers to keep theirs. The list goes on and we will be moving towards amateur rugby in the next few years.
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Attractive competitive sport retains its integrity and stays appealing because it weeds out the cheats, ensuring the bar remains high but obtainable on a level playing field.
The premiership has become an unappealing borefest propped up by sugar daddies because of the cowardice of the RFU and PRL in dealing with a massive serial cheating scandal that completely undermined the competition. Quite how and why the Cheats got off so lightly will remain open to conjecture, but in light of the severity with which we and Warriors have been dealt, it seems to be based on financial clout - the powers that be seem to be tough on those that can't fight back, but soft on those that have the power to influence or litigate.
The EAs won the title today, but most people could have told you that on the first day of the season. It beggars belief to think that Lance Armstrong would have kept his titles, been banned for a season and then come back to win the tour a couple of years later, whilst the governing body announced reducing the field and his challengers was a positive way forward.
Reducing the teams just means there's less filler games in between the Cheats last title and the next. How exciting...
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According to. Pravda puff-piece in the Telegraph, Saracens? redemption is complete.
Is it F!
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And that?s the problem. Day 1 of the season and everyone knows Sarries will win it with their remarkably inexpensive international squad. It?s also known that no one will be relegated. There may be a smattering of interesting games but none that really matter. Two of the more exciting teams (us and Irish) are gone. The top four will probably be Cheats, Lesser cheats, Sale + one filler. It?s boring.
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According to. Pravda puff-piece in the Telegraph, Saracens? redemption is complete.
Is it F!
Check the comments though
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It's the last day of the Premier League football today and the top four is finalised so luckily for the English FA there is an exciting relegation battle where 3 teams go down but only one of them currently knows its them.
This is the excitement the PRL and RFU seems to forget.
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Despite Mad Eddie being there I got the last 10 minutes of the BaaBaas v World 15, and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was like the games of old and all the players enjoying it too. And Westy got to play as well. Apart from Murderball that's the only bit of rugby of which I would have liked to see more. Next season will probably be composed of just 4 teams. All from the Cheats.
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It?s difficult to understand how those that supposedly run things get things so wrong. How do we drive up income for clubs? Give them less games. How do we increase crowds and engagement in the game? Narrow the league to the same teams bashing each other each week. How do we govern the game? Take the P share off three clubs whilst allowing serial wrongdoers to keep theirs. The list goes on and we will be moving towards amateur rugby in the next few years.
I'd like to see what the profit/loss looks like for teams and their home games this season. It's easy for teams to suggest they'll lose ?250-300k per game from missed or reduced games but it doesn't really tell the whole story. It clearly hurts teams that regularly sell out or operate at a high attendance rate, but for the teams that don't costs to put on games with low attendances are either unlikely to be very profitable at all, or loss-making.
Fewer games in isolation isn't the answer. It's got to be a package of changes. I'd still like to see how finances would look with the following:
- Join up the top two divisions with a minimum of 20 teams across the two
- Promotion and relegation (do you do 1 up / 1 down, 2 up / 2 down or the French system of the bottom get relegated, the top gets promoted and the second-placed top/bottom teams have a play-off?)
- Max 10 Teams in the top division to account for internationals so games are played with the best players available barring injury
- Reduction in Salary Cap; fewer games means fewer players required in squads, especially with international break periods helping with R&R
The problem is getting the teams to agree to it, because they're all shareholders with an inflated and artificial value associated to the P-Shares that give them a say. That and Bath, Bristol and Saracens would actively like to increase the Salary Cap and have owners with deep pockets to do so.
Wonder what the legalities are of a proposed breakaway league where, say, teams relinquish their P-Shares (after all, it seems they can't ever really be exercised apart from in an unlikely buyout and event then, would likely be at a reduced value) and team up with the Championship teams, create two divisions with the parameters that enable teams to generate and run a sustainable model that could be grown in future to force the issue?
Bath, Bristol and Saracens would be accommodated elsewhere or be forced to concede and agree new terms.
That said, not sure where they'd go - Can't imagine they'd end up in the URC (although potentially allows the URC to create two divisions), the Pro14 doesn't need a European 'Super League' and European Rugby wouldn't advocate it due to risk of diminishing the Champions and Challenge Cups.
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs. Many - if not most - of those fans have supported just one club for most of their lives. They're not going to change now just to please the RFU. Those fans will be lost foe ever.
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs. Many - if not most - of those fans have supported just one club for most of their lives. They're not going to change now just to please the RFU. Those fans will be lost foe ever.
Totally.
I was fortunate to have been involved with Edinburgh Rugby for over 50 years but willingly started supporting the "odd" team over 20 years ago. RFU/ PRL ain't going to get me even watching their matches when I can watch URL and Top 14 - far better leagues than the "10" .
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Me too. I suspect I have watched my last prem match, back in October.
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Off Piste: At least you'll get a bit of peace from me for a bit as my 'new' lap-top bought 4 months ago keeps freezing etc and is going back to Curry's tomorrow. Daren't use Mr W's work machine! I'll get another (hard luck) and the local techie will sort it. I hope nothing terrible/interesting happens tho' I think we have a spare. Somewhere. Enjoy my silence (massed cheers!).
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Off Piste: At least you'll get a bit of peace from me for a bit as my 'new' lap-top bought 4 months ago keeps freezing etc and is going back to Curry's tomorrow. Daren't use Mr W's work machine! I'll get another (hard luck) and the local techie will sort it. I hope nothing terrible/interesting happens tho' I think we have a spare. Somewhere. Enjoy my silence (massed cheers!).
Ah back to Curry's so you will be gone for many months then. :)
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You'll be the first to know. It won't be a new l/t from Mr Curry though. Tara.
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs. Many - if not most - of those fans have supported just one club for most of their lives. They're not going to change now just to please the RFU. Those fans will be lost foe ever.
I'm 100% done with the premiership it holds no interest for me anymore, I used to watch every match BT Sport showed, if it was a Wasps home match I'd generally watch it again when we got home to hear the commentary etc. Since the demise of Wasps I've watched about 30mins of it, including 10mins at the weekend, but the whole Sarries redemption made me turn it off.
Before Wasps arrived in Coventry I watched the odd match in person at Saints as a few guys at my old job were saints fans, Bedford Blues same reason, even Coventry RFC at their old ground when I first arrived in Cov as a Student, and some matches as a kid back in Scotland, Glasgow, pre-Warriors days.
I really bought into Wasps arrival in Coventry, missing I think 2 home matches in all their time in Coventry, and of the away games the only places I never actually got to were bizarrely Worcester despite being so close, and Exeter. Since their demise I've attended a couple of Internationals, Scotland vs All Blacks and Scotland vs Wales, and just after went to the Quins vs BaaBaas (I regretted that as really didn't enjoy it)
For me now it will only be my usual 2 internationals a year at Murrayfield, occasion trip to Cardiff (the missus is half Welsh), and if our neighbours son continues at Mosley the occasion match there. (Plus the 2 matches at the world cup I have tickets for, Scotland vs Romania & Tonga vs Romania)
I may try and catch the occasional Glasgow or Edinburgh match if I'm up there, but certainly won't be supporting any of the premiership teams who helped with the demise of Wasps, Warriors and possibly Irish.
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs.
What makes you say that? I can't imagine anyone is under the illusion that fans of Warriors, us and Irish will suddenly buy season tickets and follow one of the other Premiership Teams. Perhaps longer term, but not in the short term.
We were STH holders for nearly 15 years (pretty sure that 08/09 was our first full season), at the moment, our kids have been coming since they were babies and we're all missing the good old days. We haven't watched that must Rugby of late, but have planned several trips around Rugby (6N and Lions '25).
We've chatted about who/where would we think about Season Tickets; Bath/Bristol crop up (I quite like Bath but less fussed about Bristol as a team), both a bit further than Coventry for us driving and gets very expensive (even if quick timewise) for us to train it. Irish are (were) geographically closest to us, followed by Quins. I think Quins/Bath for me - Quins closest to the Wasps DNA.
We're unlikely to do anything until we know how Wasps will play out and will then take a decision. Whilst we're a Family of rugby fans, there's not the same emotional investment/connection to the current teams as we had with Wasps and to be honest, if we're re-incarnated without any of the old players, we're unlikely to feel the same connection. If we were to have say, Jimmy/Robson back to coach and some of the Academy/Younger players return, I think it would be different. But we're getting ahead of ourselves.
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Been a Wasps fan for over a quarter of a century, so don?t exactly feel inclined to follow anyone else. Haven?t watched a game since we went under, I listened to the 6N on the radio rather than watch and will cancelled TNT sport next month when my current contract expires.
Could be some time before I watch another prem game ? either on TV or in person. I suppose that if the obnoxious estate agents went under I might change my mind.
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I suppose that if the obnoxious estate agents went under I might change my mind.
Now there's some wishful thinking, they sure wouldn't be missed.
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs. Many - if not most - of those fans have supported just one club for most of their lives. They're not going to change now just to please the RFU. Those fans will be lost foe ever.
This is tosh. Whilst not a regular attendee in recent times - I've only ever - since the late 70s - identified as a Wasps supporter. Probably in the first place as my school shirts were not dissimilar and probably as I liked the attitude.
I am a general rugby fan, but that doesn't mean I'm going to other clubs games. I live near enough to go to three others these days, but I will be going next season to see my local team with the other 75 people. I'm more likely to go and support my local league 2 football team than go and support another Prem side.
I may change my mind when the lack of rugby becomes more apparent - but at present, I'm not going to games unless invited by mates for a game and few beers. But that's more unlikely than before as we've all moved to different parts of the country and travel isn't so simple at present.
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Sounds like you agree with the post?
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The RFU 'Powers that be' seem to be labouring under the delusion that all the supporters of the (apparently) soon to be defunct Clubs will throw away their flags and rush off to support other Clubs. Many - if not most - of those fans have supported just one club for most of their lives. They're not going to change now just to please the RFU. Those fans will be lost foe ever.
This is tosh. Whilst not a regular attendee in recent times - I've only ever - since the late 70s - identified as a Wasps supporter. Probably in the first place as my school shirts were not dissimilar and probably as I liked the attitude.
I am a general rugby fan, but that doesn't mean I'm going to other clubs games. I live near enough to go to three others these days, but I will be going next season to see my local team with the other 75 people. I'm more likely to go and support my local league 2 football team than go and support another Prem side.
I may change my mind when the lack of rugby becomes more apparent - but at present, I'm not going to games unless invited by mates for a game and few beers. But that's more unlikely than before as we've all moved to different parts of the country and travel isn't so simple at present.
I am sort of with you, but I tried my 'local' team, and the atmosphere was totally lacking. I could have been standing at the school gates waiting to collect my daughter. I had no connection, no belonging. I first watched Wasps with a work friend in the late 80s. Going to a local game just doesn't work for me. Wasps, or nothing is where I am at.
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Sounds like you agree with the post?
Yep - having a bad day on the comprehension front!
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I am sort of with you, but I tried my 'local' team, and the atmosphere was totally lacking. I could have been standing at the school gates waiting to collect my daughter. I had no connection, no belonging. I first watched Wasps with a work friend in the late 80s. Going to a local game just doesn't work for me. Wasps, or nothing is where I am at.
Fair call. I do have a link into the local team as I'm on the Trust that runs the grounds where they play and so have an interest in them and a project going forwards - but I'll have to see - your warning my well overcome my interest!
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I am not sure that anyone thinks that Warriors, Wasps or, potentially, Irish fans will just move their allegiance en mass to another prem club. Thats not how any sport works.
What PRL will be hoping is that many will still watch games on BT/TNT/whatever, even if they don't "support" a side. This season I have done just that. Its not the same, but I loved Rugby before I supported Wasps & have a close attachments to 2 grassroots clubs so while Wasps going is extremely painful, I will still watch various levels of rugby without any issue.
I fully understand many others may not feel like that (my wife included!) but I would urge anyone who wants to walk away from rugby, go to their local grassroots club when next season begins, have a beer, chat with the supporters & hopefully you will find a new rugby home.
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I quite like the idea of a few hundred Wasps supporters turning up to games through the league's at clubs used to only having friends and family turn up!
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I am not sure that anyone thinks that Warriors, Wasps or, potentially, Irish fans will just move their allegiance en mass to another prem club. Thats not how any sport works.
What PRL will be hoping is that many will still watch games on BT/TNT/whatever, even if they don't "support" a side. This season I have done just that. Its not the same, but I loved Rugby before I supported Wasps & have a close attachments to 2 grassroots clubs so while Wasps going is extremely painful, I will still watch various levels of rugby without any issue.
I fully understand many others may not feel like that (my wife included!) but I would urge anyone who wants to walk away from rugby, go to their local grassroots club when next season begins, have a beer, chat with the supporters & hopefully you will find a new rugby home.
The first time I went down to my local club, it was a good game. I met a lot of other Wasps exiles there. By the end of the season, all had stopped going, including me. They all felt like me. Lost, and somewhat pissed with the way this has all turned out. I am not sure sure who is to blame, but I know, for once, it wasn't me. The thing is, I am not sure I want to support rugby. For as long as those running those local clubs leave the RFU in charge, I can't stand beside them.
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I quite like the idea of a few hundred Wasps supporters turning up to games through the league's at clubs used to only having friends and family turn up!
Me too, if it happens I look forward to the days out wherever they may be.
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What PRL will be hoping is that many will still watch games on BT/TNT/whatever, even if they don't "support" a side.
Not for me, I find watching Sport tedious if I have no vested interest in who wins.
The only Premiership team I would like to see win is the one that is playing Saracens but I refuse to watch them anyway.
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Unfortunately my local team is $ara??n$ and I'll be damned if my feelings towards them move from what they are now to anything that approaches not loathing them with a passion.
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Unfortunately my local team is $ara??n$ and I'll be damned if my feelings towards them move from what they are now to anything that approaches not loathing them with a passion.
My local team are aligned with the EAs and will take no criticism.