Always a Wasp

Depends on what that confidence was based. I think Wasps weren’t expecting the amount of damage, certainly rugby fans seemed surprised.

I don’t thin releasing the statement earlier would have made any difference to fans feelings. It was the fact that Wasps were denying there was a problem with the pitch, and hence refusing to repair it that was the big issue.

Thorn

Can I, as a bond holder, make an interjection?

Basically they missed the repayment termination date, but at least I am still getting a return at an interest rate  that many others can only dream about.

I don't need the capital amount for anything urgent, so am more than happy to let them take as long as they like to sort the fine details of the new arrangement out. Ok some others might be in a situation where they need the money, but as I was once told "don't invest in anything that is handled by the stock exchange unless you are prepared to lose the investment"

Yes it seems a bit of an awkward situation, but what with COVID etc. I am not surprised about the situation.

As a Wasp fan, it’s unsurprising and indeed laudable that you take that view. However, many other bondholders took the view, on investing, that there were cast iron securities in the form of the arena (head lease) which would always have some significant value, and also all the share capital in ACL and ACL2006 - whose value could fluctuate more widely. There still isn’t an expectation from them that they will lose their investments, it will be how long they are prepared to wait, and under what conditions they are expected to wait, that will be the issue for Wasps. At the moment they seem prepared to give some limited additional time for Wasps - and if refinancing has been arranged I am sure they, and you, will be happy to get their investment back.

Good Giselle Mather article / interview, mentions possibility of Coventry move for Women but not confirmed as seemed to be previously thought in this thread.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/leaving-wasps-and-the-ealing-adventure-by-stepping-down-theyve-realised-what-is-necessary/

I hate to say this, but I’m not sure Wasps Womens could play at the CBS Arena whilst the football club are there because of EFL groundshare rules, as follows:-

13.3  Ground sharing will only be approved at the discretion of the Board . The Board will ordinarily withhold approval in circumstances where the proposed ground share arrangement would result in the Club sharing occupation of the playing surface with more than one other individual team from another sport (by way of example, a Club sharing with one Rugby League team will be acceptable, but a Club seeking to share with a Rugby Union team and a Rugby League team, or two Rugby Union teams, will not).

Wasps mens and Wasps womens would be two RU teams. Clearly discretion could be applied: I doubt the recent pitch issues would help in that regard.

Quote from: SBSam on September 01, 2022, 07:02:22 PM

Quote from: bigad82 on September 01, 2022, 06:33:00 PM

Quote from: SBSam on September 01, 2022, 06:25:49 PM

Quote from: bigad82 on September 01, 2022, 06:01:11 PM

SBsam this thread was started about another club being in trouble not about bonds.
The club in question is Worcester.

I know, but the thread was titled Big News and the bind default is pretty big news for Wasps, potentially existential. There weren’t any posts on this thread for 3 days as I think the majority were posting about Worcester on the newer Worcester thread.

Or maybe there has been no news on the bonds for weeks so you post about them in threads where it certainly isn't relevant.
Start a thread about bonds and fill your boots.

Are you in a position to tell me what to do?

Unfortunately not I would of binned you weeks ago.

Have

For what it's worth, I feel that Sam puts his/her thoughts down in a perfectly acceptable way.


 Yes, he/she definitely has a viewpoint opposing most of us on this forum, and that's often a pretty big sign of a troll.
However, as long as the views and points being made are relevant, new, and not insulting, then I don't have a problem with it at all.


In fact, it's quite insightful to hear the views from the other side without the vitriol that it often comes with

Here’s something I never thought I would hear me say - thank you Wasps

My view is not necessarily a view from the other side, it is a view without being influenced by an undying love for Wasps whilst having experienced the pain caused by our current ownership.

 Part of that view is that many of the potential income generation opportunities that would throw Wasps a financial lifeline seem to be separate, or being separated from, Wasps. This is things like the training ground, the hotel application by Richardson, the formation of 4, albeit currently dormant, Richardson companies having Ricoh/CBS as accommodation address. These things are done by design not accident.

There was money to be made from regenerating the area around the arena, the Arena Quarter or AQ if you like. Such development was central to Coventry Councils agreement to and subsequent involvement with the arena, and the belief that Wasps would deliver on that agenda was a significant plank in the argument to get unanimous council support for the sale to Wasps. Profits from such enterprises may well have made Wasps truly the richest rugby club in Europe.

I know Wasps supporters will hear nothing against DR, but back in 2014 he was saying that he was neither intending to profit from Wasps nor was he a property developer. The first part has come to pass inadvertently , but the intent to personally develop property does seem to be there - albeit not yet activated. The lines between Wasps and Richardson companies are very blurred and that could be advantageous for anyone looking for council support for building projects - which can then harm Wasps image/ reputation if they are seen to fall by the wayside whilst not necessarily contributing to Wasps financial bottom line if they succeed.

Obviously purely speculation and there could be any number of other interpretations but it is a narrative which brings together a number of facts and seeks to explain them. Before anyone else says it, explain could be exchanged for exploit.

To a certain extent, I hope that the bonds are paid off in the next few weeks - it would remove one level of uncertainty about my own club’s future.

Quote from: Rifleman Harris on September 01, 2022, 05:20:06 PM

Quote from: bigad82 on September 01, 2022, 05:16:18 PM

Quote from: Rifleman Harris on September 01, 2022, 05:05:14 PM

Quote from: bigad82 on September 01, 2022, 04:50:16 PM

Quote from: SBSam on September 01, 2022, 04:19:11 PM

Isn’t to and fro what discussion is about? If everybody had the same view, there would be nothing to discuss. I accept that the bonds issue if a pretty big stick, but failure to redeem on time and to keep within self pronounced timescales is pretty big news too.

Yes Sam we get it it's all you keep banging on about.
Any mention of anything else in this thread and you keep doing is 'what about the bonds'.
It's getting a bit tedious now.

To be fair, as far as I can see there are three sets of main creditors, the directors, the bond holders.  Two of those are likely to put the club out of business if not kept onside.  SBSam's news was new and significant and therefore relevant.  I would say the bond holders must be having their patience stretched massively now, let's hope the positive stuff is indicative of a package being pulled together to resolve the bond issue.  If not then I think 'what about the bonds' is a relevant thing to bring up.

There is already a thread about the bonds try finding it and give us all a bit of a break.

Good point. Thank you for your considered and thoughtful response.

Sorry RH it wasn't aimed at you.Only looking for news about Worcester.

There is a post specifically about Worcester.

Isn’t to and fro what discussion is about? If everybody had the same view, there would be nothing to discuss. I accept that the bonds issue if a pretty big stick, but failure to redeem on time and to keep within self pronounced timescales is pretty big news too.