Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: AKWasp on November 04, 2019, 09:47:35 AM
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Very early for transfer gossip but with the success of Jimmy’s return and his effect on Lima’s game at the weekend, think it’s pretty clear that we need a second playmaker at 12.
My question is in 2 parts:
1) Jimmy cannot play every game this season- who could do his job when he does not play?
2) At the end of the season, who could we sign long term to do that job?
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Few players I would like to see/recommend:
Beale, Lozowski, Spink (Gopperth to develop him like Mallins has been developed by Goode).
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I’ll also share my 2p:
1) as unlikely as it is, would be very exciting to see if Lima and Billy could replicate the Cips- Jimmy combo that was so successful (especially offering that left-foot right-foot option and both being willing runners- could be much more fluid than Jimmy and Cips)
2) Lots of plaudits for Atkinson at Glos as he can play much more direct too which draws in defenders and opens the space wider.
Would also like to see if Beale could replicate his form from last time in the prem- albeit at 12.
With Sarries maybe having to let go of their vast amounts of talent, Loz could be a player that we offer an olive branch to as he could work very well as an outside playmaker.
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Few players I would like to see/recommend:
Beale, Lozowski, Spink (Gopperth to develop him like Mallins has been developed by Goode).
Forgot to mention Spink- looks a real player and hopefully will get some opportunity through the season
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Spink I would say.
We can't afford Beale, and I am not sure he would be coming back North. I am not sure Loz would want to leave London.
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In theory I would like a playmaker at 12 and seeing as they're as rare as hen's teeth it might be worth developing one within house whilst Gopps plays out his career. We must be getting close to our EQP ratio limit (Is Jimmy EQP I wonder?)
I think someone asked the question in another thread about how many times did Gopps stand at 10 and Sopps at 12 in the Bath game? If the highlight clip is anything to go by.. a lot, so why don't we pursue that with the players (Umaga, Searle, Gopps, Sopps) that we have. Develop a system of plays that means all can swap between 1st and 2nd receiver.
It would be nice to have a Jamie Roberts type 12 in the squad crashing the ball down the 10 channel (Ryan Mills at Wuss) but quite often if that's required, the task is undertaken by fowards.. Rowlands try on Saturday being the prime example.
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Spink I would say.
We can't afford Beale, and I am not sure he would be coming back North. I am not sure Loz would want to leave London.
Don’t know if Beale would be as pricey as many would think due to his erratic form and increased age- could be enough at 12 to bridge the gap between Jimmy and Spink. Also has some unfinished business in black and gold.
Loz also might not have much choice about staying at Sarries, guess Quins and Irish’s move to Brentford could satisfy his desire to stay in London although Irish must be pretty close to the cap
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Beale (when he was available) was brilliant for us but that was as a 15. I can't see that he would cope with the claustrophobic confines of playing at 12 in the premiership. I think he excels in wide open spaces with time to run at people.
He will definitely be looking for a last big contract and if I were a betting man, my 1 pence would be a move to Japan.
I can't see how Sarries can be forced to offload players. In terms of employment contracts it will open up a massive can of worms.
What may happen is that Sarries be asked to reduce their available squad numbers.
Sarries have the option of keeping players on contract but not being able to use them for the rest of the season. Some players may then leave and go play for another club "on loan" whilst still being paid by Sarries.
I can't see how PRL or Sarries can force a player to leave. Employment solicitors would be rubbing their grubby little hands at the prospect.
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Beale (when he was available) was brilliant for us but that was as a 15. I can't see that he would cope with the claustrophobic confines of playing at 12 in the premiership. I think he excels in wide open spaces with time to run at people.
He will definitely be looking for a last big contract and if I were a betting man, my 1 pence would be a move to Japan.
I can't see how Sarries can be forced to offload players. In terms of employment contracts it will open up a massive can of worms.
What may happen is that Sarries be asked to reduce their available squad numbers.
Sarries have the option of keeping players on contract but not being able to use them for the rest of the season. Some players may then leave and go play for another club "on loan" whilst still being paid by Sarries.
I can't see how PRL or Sarries can force a player to leave. Employment solicitors would be rubbing their grubby little hands at the prospect.
Been some comment about a reduced cap size and I’d guess if they broke that then it goes to fines- don’t think players would be told to leave by the league but may be paid off by Sarries for the club to reduce their wage bill themselves.
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Just thought I'd clarify I suggested Loz because of the salary situation currently at Sarries, but more importantly Loz will be competing with Barritt, Taylor, Tompkins and Daly for Centre. Reckon both may persuade him to leave.
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Just thought I'd clarify I suggested Loz because of the salary situation currently at Sarries, but more importantly Loz will be competing with Barritt, Taylor, Tompkins and Daly for Centre. Reckon both may persuade him to leave.
Interesting because they had to persuade him he had a future role to re-sign last season - obviously with a decrease in salary.
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If anyone was going to accept a payoff to leave I suspect it would be Barritt (seeing as he has his nice little coffee franchise at the stadium) and is at the end of his career. Why should Loz have to leave.
Also. . if Barritt left Wray or one of his very rich friends could employ him as a property consultant outside of the perimeter of the salary cap as he would no longer be part of Sarries.
The problem with forcing Sarries to strip the squad size down is.. where do the players go.. most clubs will all be up to their Salary cap and who wants to take a player on that doesn't want to be there. We suffered that last season.
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If anyone was going to accept a payoff to leave I suspect it would be Barritt (seeing as he has his nice little coffee franchise at the stadium) and is at the end of his career. Why should Loz have to leave.
Also. . if Barritt left Wray or one of his very rich friends could employ him as a property consultant outside of the perimeter of the salary cap as he would no longer be part of Sarries.
The problem with forcing Sarries to strip the squad size down is.. where do the players go.. most clubs will all be up to their Salary cap and who wants to take a player on that doesn't want to be there. We suffered that last season.
Actually who cares! The EAs may have got themselves into a legally indefensable situation and Mr Wray will have to pay his way out of it one way or another. When (if) the house of cards does fall there will, unfortunately, be casualties. Wrong thread really.
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I think Spink is potentially a great player but I have never seen him in the 12 playmaker role. I think he is more a 13 who could do a job at 12.
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Has anyone seen Owain James play at 12?
The few times I've seen him play he's looked quite creative, might be worth a look?
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I am a bit surprised we haven't tried Miller there.
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I am a bit surprised we haven't tried Miller there.
Yes agree with that. Could be good.
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Umaga makes more sense as I think he's played 12 before. Are Umaga and James still with the squad or been loaned out?
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Only issue with Miller is potentially he’s a bit lightweight to be in the 12 channel, definitely capable in attack but Jimmy, Billy and evening Lima have shown they can tackle above their weight
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Ryan Mills would be top of my list if he ever decided to leave Worcester, hes been consistently excellent at 12 and is EQP.
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Ryan Mills would be top of my list if he ever decided to leave Worcester, hes been consistently excellent at 12 and is EQP.
Yep - I've always like Mills. Big and strong, intelligent, good boot and a decent long pass. He'd have been top of my list but his form has dipped a bit recently. He has been very loyal to Worcester and signed a new contact last year I think but if they go down I'd love to see him here.
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I’ll also share my 2p:
2) Lots of plaudits for Atkinson at Glos as he can play much more direct too which draws in defenders and opens the space wider.
Mark Atkinson, previously of this parish?
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I’ll also share my 2p:
2) Lots of plaudits for Atkinson at Glos as he can play much more direct too which draws in defenders and opens the space wider.
Mark Atkinson, previously of this parish?
Indeed, did not realise he’s a former Wasp- even more reason to get him back
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Isn’t Mills club captain at Wuss?
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Isn’t Mills club captain at Wuss?
I think Cornell du Preez is club captain but Mills is usually on field captain if CdP not playing
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Truth is there aren't many out there. I'd like to see Lima tried there next year with either Umaga or Searle inside him. Spink and Miller are decent calls. Hopefully Jimmy has a couple of seasons in him to give us some breathing space to develop.
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Jimmy is most certainly retiring at end of the season
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Jimmy is most certainly retiring at end of the season
Has it been announced or is it information you've been given?
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Neither. The tone of announcement of his re-signing was one more season. Simultaneously he's 36 and get more injuries and longer injuries and we need to start looking asap.
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Mills would be perfect, he's been awesome for Worcs and has been the brains in that backline for a while now. Great to see his injury run finished at last. He won't be involved with Eng either but is good enough to have been considered in the past but for the injuries.
How long is Sopps here for now? If he's off at the end of the season then we don't need someone to counterract his deficiencies anyway.
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How long is Sopps here for now? If he's off at the end of the season then we don't need someone to counterract his deficiencies anyway.
It was a 3 year contract. Don’t think it’s to hide his deficiencies but more that we are better with 2 playmakers.
Billy and Jacob (although inexperienced) have also struggled to get the back line firing without a playmaker at 12.
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How long is Sopps here for now? If he's off at the end of the season then we don't need someone to counterract his deficiencies anyway.
It was a 3 year contract. Don’t think it’s to hide his deficiencies but more that we are better with 2 playmakers.
Billy and Jacob (although inexperienced) have also struggled to get the back line firing without a playmaker at 12.
... and yet, when I watched the academy playing last year, it was firing then with Jacob in the team. So, if Jacob ISN'T the one doing it, who in that academy team was? For me, watching, it was Jacob pulling the strings. Outside him at 12 was Booj, and, from what I saw, it was not him, nor Ross outside him. The last game I saw had this back line:
15 Cameron Anderson
14 Taju Atta
13 Ross Neal
12 Michael Le Bourgeois
11 Callum Sirker
10 Jacob Umaga
9 Will Porter (c)
So, that being said, maybe Jacob CAN do it, but is being stopped from doing it, maybe, by someone more senior when he plays in the first team?
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MLB is a distributor though. He may not be as good as a proper 10 etc, but he's very capable of spreading the ball.
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Yes. But, my point was, I suppose, that Jacob was very visibly pulling the strings in that game because those around him were letting him lead.
When he has played in the first team (in the early Prem cup games), he wasn't. That will not have been his choice to be 'passive'.
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It could also be Jacob is struggling with the transition to first team games perhaps.
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It could also be Jacob is struggling with the transition to first team games perhaps.
Maybe, but he played a lot at Carnegie last year, so the step should not be too hard.
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It may just be that they are easing him in, so letting someone else manage the backs so he can concentrate on his game. That approach doesn't suit everyone; Smith at Quins seemed to slot in easily. Mind you he had Nick Evans in the background not a All Black struggling to come to terms with life in the Northern Hemisphere and the weight of expectation.
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If Gopperth is to retire let's hope we're having thoughts about keeping him in some sort of coaching capacity. His on field nous was palpable on Saturday and it would be a real own goal to let that walk out the door.
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A chance to get Loz back post salarycapgate perchance?
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If Gopperth is to retire let's hope we're having thoughts about keeping him in some sort of coaching capacity. His on field nous was palpable on Saturday and it would be a real own goal to let that walk out the door.
He’s been learning the trade at Old Leamingtonians I think with some success so I believe the club may see him as a future skills/kicking coach leaving Costello to focus on the defence entirely
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It may just be that they are easing him in, so letting someone else manage the backs so he can concentrate on his game. That approach doesn't suit everyone; Smith at Quins seemed to slot in easily. Mind you he had Nick Evans in the background not a All Black struggling to come to terms with life in the Northern Hemisphere and the weight of expectation.
If Wasps don't ease Jacob back in sooner rather than later (bearing in mind he's been loaned out to Leeds and a NZ club) then there's a very good chance he will ease himself in at another club. It was dissappointing at the end of last seson where we were down to the bear bones at 10, having to play Miller there and Jacob sat patiently on the bench for 2 or 3 games and wasn't given 1 minute of game time
From what I've seen of him, he's a a very skillful playmaker and tactically astute.
Dai said he would change his approach to using the squad this season and seemingly he has by promoting so many academy players to the senior squad.
He needs to throw some of them in at the deep end for 20 mins per game to see how they cope/perform.
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It may just be that they are easing him in, so letting someone else manage the backs so he can concentrate on his game. That approach doesn't suit everyone; Smith at Quins seemed to slot in easily. Mind you he had Nick Evans in the background not a All Black struggling to come to terms with life in the Northern Hemisphere and the weight of expectation.
If Wasps don't ease Jacob back in sooner rather than later (bearing in mind he's been loaned out to Leeds and a NZ club) then there's a very good chance he will ease himself in at another club. It was dissappointing at the end of last seson where we were down to the bear bones at 10, having to play Miller there and Jacob sat patiently on the bench for 2 or 3 games and wasn't given 1 minute of game time
From what I've seen of him, he's a a very skillful playmaker and tactically astute.
Dai said he would change his approach to using the squad this season and seemingly he has by promoting so many academy players to the senior squad.
He needs to throw some of them in at the deep end for 20 mins per game to see how they cope/perform.
Unlike us, he gets to see how they perform all week.
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It may just be that they are easing him in, so letting someone else manage the backs so he can concentrate on his game. That approach doesn't suit everyone; Smith at Quins seemed to slot in easily. Mind you he had Nick Evans in the background not a All Black struggling to come to terms with life in the Northern Hemisphere and the weight of expectation.
If Wasps don't ease Jacob back in sooner rather than later (bearing in mind he's been loaned out to Leeds and a NZ club) then there's a very good chance he will ease himself in at another club. It was dissappointing at the end of last seson where we were down to the bear bones at 10, having to play Miller there and Jacob sat patiently on the bench for 2 or 3 games and wasn't given 1 minute of game time
From what I've seen of him, he's a a very skillful playmaker and tactically astute.
Dai said he would change his approach to using the squad this season and seemingly he has by promoting so many academy players to the senior squad.
He needs to throw some of them in at the deep end for 20 mins per game to see how they cope/perform.
You misunderstand me. I meant that he wasn't throwing him in by allowing the senior players around him to make the calls so he can concentrate on establishing himself and on his game.
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We also now have the euro games to use for development. Allowing a mix of young and old to integrate.
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We also now have the euro games to use for development. Allowing a mix of young and old to integrate.
Depends how Dai see's Europe. He did say he wanted to take it seriously and at least two of our pool are playing well. Bordeaux next week will be very tough for the first match. Can't see too much change if we are even slightly serious. At least we will enjoy the wine!