Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: COYW15 on February 26, 2024, 09:16:26 AM
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OUR JOURNEY UPDATE ? FEBRUARY 2024
Wasps continues its substantial efforts to return the men's and women's teams to the highest level possible of performance rugby. In October 2023 we outlined the 3 pillars that define our intent and our direction of travel. They are:
A competition entity
One that is fit for purpose and reflects the values that WASPS and others adhere to.
Sustainable finance
The cornerstone of our recovery relies on sustainable finance and a robust business plan that avoids a single point of failure.
A stadium in which to play
We have made substantial progress in the establishment of a suitable ground in which to play as we progress the planning for our new stadium.
What has changed?
We can now inform you that we have secured the core Sustainable finance and a Stadium in which to play. All we are waiting for is a competition to join that will allow us to compete at the highest level - and one that shares our values.
As we navigate through our most challenging period, this is a call to all of you who have shared this journey with us. Whatever entity we join will want to know the level of support we enjoy. By signing up to our new database, you're not just showing support; you're becoming a foundational part of our return.
Every sign-up is a step towards revival, a testament to the enduring legacy and the future potential of our club - your club. Be part of our story.
Please take two minutes to sign the pledge and share with your friends and family.
https://pledge.wasps.co.uk/
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Three of us pledged. Good luck and success to you Wasps.
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How'd you manage that Wonky? I click the button and it just directs to the same homepage, nothing happens.
Tried on Chrome and IE, both same.
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How'd you manage that Wonky? I click the button and it just directs to the same homepage, nothing happens.
Tried on Chrome and IE, both same.
+1 same.
Interesting that funding is in place. Assume the stadium in question is Sixways.
Remaining question is whether the revamped "Championship" is a suitable competition which would tick the boxes.
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Form was available on Phone web browser, so maybe something wrong with their webpage.
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I went in on Wasps Twitter, Mr W used (I think) DWs, and daughter used Wasps Twitter. Good luck gentlemen.
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So if that is to be taken at face value we have a stadium, and a way of financing a club that doesn't rely on Chris Holland but no competition to play in.
This raises a few questions.
Do we have a team? Players? Coaches? Support staff?
Why do we not have a competition to play in? Are we trying to force our way back to the top table and being told no? If so why?
What competition options are there?
I guess if we keep the faith we'll find out in a couple more years. ::)
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I spoke to a person I know who has contacts inside at Worcester. He told me two separate people at Worcester said in past month URC is Wasps first choice, potentially taking a Welsh Franchise but RFU is fighting it to keep in new Prem structure. However some old friends in the Championship are fighting Wasps return there!
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It just told be I'd already signed the pledge.
Depending on your screen size you might have to scroll down if you follow the link in the email.
https://pledge.wasps.co.uk/?utm_source=pledgepage&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WASPS_Pledge
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I spoke to a person I know who has contacts inside at Worcester. He told me two separate people at Worcester said in past month URC is Wasps first choice, potentially taking a Welsh Franchise but RFU is fighting it to keep in new Prem structure. However some old friends in the Championship are fighting Wasps return there!
Very good news that a stadium and finances are in place.
So the RFU want us in a newly formed Prem 2 but a significant number of Championship clubs will fight that and Wasps want to join the URC but the RFU are fighting that.
Interesting times.
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Win 10. Brave browser. Went straight to pledge which I signed.
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Had no problem signing pledge. However, if new stadium is in Kent the likelihood of me attending home matches is virtually nil.
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Pledge signed. However, as above, it said I'd already signed. Odd.
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Same here, Garruda, but it might help keep Wasps alive ..... and kicking. I'll probably have popped my clogs by then, but until then maybe not. So I'll just join the many far flung fans who love the club but can't get to see live matches.
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Same here, Garruda, but it might help keep Wasps alive ..... and kicking. I'll probably have popped my clogs by then, but until then maybe not. So I'll just join the many far flung fans who love the club but can't get to see live matches.
Wonky, a (probably apocryphal) story about Leopold Stokowski, the great conductor. His contract came up for renewal and he insisted on a 20 year extension - he was 95 :)
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That's lovely, Ross ..... tho' he was also 95 when he died! That gives me a couple or so more years , so I hope to annoy people for a bit longer. :D
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If we have a new group of players, new coaches, new owners, a new stadium, new training facilities, and we play in a new competition what exactly is it that makes us Wasps?
We will have finally become exactly what the lovely folk in Coventry accused us of (wrongly) all those times.
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Had no problem signing pledge. However, if new stadium is in Kent the likelihood of me attending home matches is virtually nil.
Same
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Got five emails from them. Tried signing and it told me I already had.
Wasps in the URC.
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Great news for me. Firstly a sign of life and secondly I?m glad we?re looking at relaunching outside of the corrupt and stale Premiership.
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Great news for me. Firstly a sign of life and secondly I?m glad we?re looking at relaunching outside of the corrupt and stale Premiership.
+1
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They have just posted the following on Twitter.
Further to our earlier post, we have secured a temporary stadium location in the Greater London/Kent area, aligning with our strategic plans to eventually relocate to Kent.
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I would feel more comfortable giving my money to teams in the URC than any prem system.
I think we would see a few old faces on the coaching staff- and no, that isn't scuttlebutt or inside info. I just think that there will be people out there who might be coaching at a lower level who might well fancy the gig. Ditto I am sure there will be some youngsters with Wasps connections.
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Although I would have a bad feeling about Wasps playing even temporarily at Wuss, it would have meant that our family could get to (maybe) see Wasp players playing again. As it now appears that Wasps will be returning to the approximate area from which they originated (London) we won't live that dream. Sad for us, but as long as it keeps Wasps alive - sobeit. We will have to grin and bear it. But I do hope that some form of Wasp TV might be a possibility.
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As a Kent resident my guess is the Dartford stadium until a new one is built.
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Latest from the BBC.
Wasps no longer considering temporary Sixways move as they pursue new stadium.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68411809 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68411809)
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That looks like the coup de grace for those of us Midlanders then, but good luck to Wasps and ''all concerned''. It is a sensible move. Kent, you don't know lucky you are.
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If we have a new group of players, new coaches, new owners, a new stadium, new training facilities, and we play in a new competition what exactly is it that makes us Wasps?
We will have finally become exactly what the lovely folk in Coventry accused us of (wrongly) all those times.
Trigger's broom?
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Trigger's broom?
Pretty much yes.
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As a Kent resident my guess is the Dartford stadium until a new one is built.
So this is wild speculation but, Sevenoaks DC also approved a new training ground for Millwall FC in 2022 to be sited not far from the site of the proposed new Wasps stadium.
Millwall?s ground (the Den)is adjacent to the main railway line between Sevenoaks and London.
It really depends on their immediate ambitions, but the Den holds circa 20000 whereas the Dartford stadium only holds circa 4000, most of them standing, Bromley?s ground, not much more.
I would think they?d want something bigger so is it much of a leap to suggest it might be the Den?
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The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the URC. Although I could easily get to some away games if they were back in the Prem (Chiefs & Bath) I like the idea of the variety of the URC if I?m mainly watching on subscription TV.
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All in favour of URC entry. However as I understand it it either needs a team to drop out or two new teams to wish to join.
Wasps would undoubtedly have a restraint of trade battle with the arrfyou if offered a place. Bring it on.
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If a second team is needed, perhaps there?s an opportunity for Worcester, LI or even Jersey. Or perhaps all four of us.
As for grounds, I?m not sure the Den is in the right sort of area to host rugby matches. Perhaps Charlton is a better option if looking for alternatives along the railway lines heading out to Kent. They?ve even had a nomadic period in the not too distant past, so might be a kindred spirit.
Of course, there are other grounds in Greater London that have hosted rugby teams in the past. The Stoop (over most of our dead bodies) and dear old (?) Loftus Road.
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If we have a new group of players, new coaches, new owners, a new stadium, new training facilities, and we play in a new competition what exactly is it that makes us Wasps?
We will have finally become exactly what the lovely folk in Coventry accused us of (wrongly) all those times.
Trigger's broom?
We had a period as a republic, but most of us don't think any less of the monarchy because of it and even republicans don't claim that break as their objection to the monarchy.
As I've said before, we do need some link to the previous incarnation. Lol appears to be involved but it would be nice to have a number of people on the coaching & playing side, but until they know which league they're in its hard to start building the squad.
I'd like to see the likes of Jimmy Gopperth, Joe Launchbury and Josh Bassett involved as they embody the Wasps spirit, as well as some of the former academy players if they can get hold of them.
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While I understand the dislike of the prem I can't see why anyone would get excited by the URC. Wasps would be down the bottom of the table with the Welsh sides getting pumped every week plus away games will be a pain in the a*rse once the novelty has worn off.
For me, prem 2 or championship is where wasps should be.
I share the concern that is a wasps team with no wasp connections other than a badge actually wasps? But I will cross that bridge when /if we get there
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I agree with baldpaul101.
I just do not see the attraction of the URC, particularly as the alternative would seem to be Prem2 (not the Prem - at least not for a good few years).
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If we have a new group of players, new coaches, new owners, a new stadium, new training facilities, and we play in a new competition what exactly is it that makes us Wasps?
We will have finally become exactly what the lovely folk in Coventry accused us of (wrongly) all those times.
Trigger's broom?
We had a period as a republic, but most of us don't think any less of the monarchy because of it and even republicans don't claim that break as their objection to the monarchy.
As I've said before, we do need some link to the previous incarnation. Lol appears to be involved but it would be nice to have a number of people on the coaching & playing side, but until they know which league they're in its hard to start building the squad.
I'd like to see the likes of Jimmy Gopperth, Joe Launchbury and Josh Bassett involved as they embody the Wasps spirit, as well as some of the former academy players if they can get hold of them.
I was being a tad flippant, apologies. Even Trigger's broom had Trigger as a link to the past. The Wasps that recently folded had mostly only memories and the supporters as links to the Wasps of the early 2000s (different players, coaches and ground) yet it was somehow still the same team and worthy of a season ticket subscription and wandering around the country to watch too.
Sadly Kent might be too far for a lot of home matches with family considerations, won't stop us going to more-local away matches and having a viewing subscription if available.
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WTF is Trigger's broom? I've heard of Occam's razor, Planck's constant, Pascal's wager and Pythagoras' theorem, but just what has Roy Rogers and Trigger got to do with it?
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Not an Only Fools and Horses fan then?
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WTF is Trigger's broom? I've heard of Occam's razor, Planck's constant, Pascal's wager and Pythagoras' theorem, but just what has Roy Rogers and Trigger got to do with it?
It?s like the apocryphal axe grandad had for years. It had only had 3 new handles and 2 new heads and was a great example of old school craftsmanship.
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:)
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Ship of Theseus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
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So if that is to be taken at face value we have a stadium, and a way of financing a club that doesn't rely on Chris Holland but no competition to play in.
This raises a few questions.
Do we have a team? Players? Coaches? Support staff?
Why do we not have a competition to play in? Are we trying to force our way back to the top table and being told no? If so why?
What competition options are there?
I guess if we keep the faith we'll find out in a couple more years. ::)
A few months there was a statement from within the new entity saying that there 237 players and 37 players avaiable.
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Not forgetting Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, under which we all seem to be labouring at the moment.
Incidentally, Blaise Pascal - he of the first hand-held calculator fame - was a tax collector in, of all places, Castres.
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Paul Smith - once of our parish - writes in RugbyPass :
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
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Kent would mean my continued absence, unfortunately.
For purely selfish reasons, ground share with Barnet at the Hive. Close to where we came from, on the Tube, not a million miles from the M1 and M25. Same colours.
Barnet are talking about a new stadium back in Barnet, too.
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RugbyPass article by the dubious Paul Smith also quoting the nasty Gilbert but worth a scan -
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
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I'm keen to see Wasps resurrected. And the URC would be an interesting prospect.
It offers some interesting challenges for a new the new entity, new fans may be more difficult to engage in a non domestic league. Attracting away fans makes the location even more important, firstly good transport links and a nearby airport, second an away weekend to an industrial estate near a motorway is no where near as attractive as a weekend in Dublin, Cardiff, Edinburgh etc.
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RugbyPass article by the dubious Paul Smith also quoting the nasty Gilbert but worth a scan -
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
Paul Smith is an a*se with an axe to grind. Unpopular locally.
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RugbyPass article by the dubious Paul Smith also quoting the nasty Gilbert but worth a scan -
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
Paul Smith is an a*se with an axe to grind. Unpopular locally.
Very much so.
Makes me wonder how Mr Holland will get himself out of the EPIC and Sixways. Maybe the deal he has with Birmingham City will become permanent.
Then he will have a nice farm house there to sell also. I wonder if the contractors who did all that work ever got paid? I know that they had not been when Wasps folded.
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I see Coventry Rugby see Wasps future in the URC (Rugby Paper).
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I see Coventry Rugby see Wasps future in the URC (Rugby Paper).
Well, the would, wouldn't they? Not much love lost when it all went ####s up.
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TBH I reckon that URC would a good place for Wasps to rock up. Better option than the heap of dog poo that masquerades as the Premiership.
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Very much so.
Makes me wonder how Mr Holland will get himself out of the EPIC and Sixways. Maybe the deal he has with Birmingham City will become permanent.
Then he will have a nice farm house there to sell also. I wonder if the contractors who did all that work ever got paid? I know that they had not been when Wasps folded.
The house was separate from the EPIC. I believe Derek retained ownership of the house.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
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There's an interesting article in the Telegraph about rugby brand recognition, particularly regarding young people.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/03/04/northampton-change-crest-target-younger-fans/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/03/04/northampton-change-crest-target-younger-fans/)
Northampton Saints, currently top of the Premiership, are aiming to create a new badge for next season because very few people recognise it and even their own supporters cannot draw it from memory.
This got me thinking about other teams' brands. I recon if you showed a typical sample of people all the Premiership and Championship club badges (without give away wording) they would struggle to identify most of them, even if they were told they were rugby clubs.
If the clubs that went bust were included as well I am sure that the Wasps badge would be one of the most widely recognised, even today.
That sort of convinces me that the argument about the Wasps brand is actually cogent and relevant to growing the game, regardless of what the Championship clubs, or others, think.
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Wasps are there with Bath and Tigers for recognition. It takes a special kind of moron to willingly avoid the fact that Wasps have that kind of status. Morons from Tigers abound, because they see gate attendance as equal to brand recognition, but that thinking avoids the fact that nobody outside of those with strong local connections supported Tigers. Not true for Bath, who have the advantage of being one of the most visited and adored cities in England, who often garner neutral support.
Here in Wales, they often refer to 'The Wasps'. Normally alongside the word 'giants'. Fallen giants nowadays. Giants is a word not applied to Sarries, but one reserved for Bath and Tigers. It might be 20 years out of date, but that is the way things are seen.
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I can think of a few ways the term giant could be applied to Sarries. It pairs nicely with cheats for example.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.
Regardless of the detailed ins and outs of it, the fact is coventry were rescued a month later and never ceased to exist in the same way. So a comparison about them having to start from the bottom isn't applicable. They were never in the same situation as Wasps.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
Completely agree.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.
I find this hard to believe. From what I understand, Wasps ceased to exist after entering administration and not finding a a financial solution. We couldn't verify a alternative.
Unless there's evidence the RFU and/or Prem went out of their way to let our club going under, it's clear it is Wasps fault the we went into administration.
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It's been a while since I've been here, and seeing the rumours etc. thought I'd throw my response to the rumours and reactions.
Honestly it doesn't feel right walking into the URC. It's not an English league and I don't understand why we should. It's a very weird league as is and I'd prefer to be in the Prem.
That said, we do not deserve to walk into the Prem. We ceased to exist and now we have this entitlement that we're too big not to be in the Prem? If we were why didn't we survive before?
We only deserve to be in the Prem after getting there from the bottom sustainably.
Also as you guys and gals may gather from my tone, I'm not sympathetic towards the club. In fact I blame the previous owners and management for how it went. Then again it was arguably an impossible situation etc. but I don't blame the RFU or the Prem.
Don't get me wrong, other clubs were vultures, somehow affording our players after fitting them into the previously lowered salary cap. That stuff was downright baffling how that stuff happened.
It all still feels so.... Unrealistic. I don't have confidence in the club currently and don't understand the entitlement. I want the club to return, but it is not entirely realistic how we're going about it.
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It is impossible to go to the bottom and return when amateur Wasps existing that sphere already. Unless they want to. A separate amateur Wasps? Hmm
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On Cov vs us, iirc we had a buyer if the P share had not been removed. Cov did not have that issue, so yes, it is different, but not because they cleared their debts, we never had the chance to do that as our prospective buyers scarpered when the PRL said no p share.
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Don't agree with some peoples view of history. Wasps went bust because of decision Wasps made. No one else.
I do agree that maybe things could have gone differently after they went bust if the RFU & PRL had a better plan for the future, but ultimately Wasps caused their own demise.
If Wasps are allowed to come back as franchise club in the mythical Prem2 then what will happen with the "Rugby Debts"? Weren't these a pre req for any return above level 11?
Other debts are gone because Wasps was a business that went bust. Like any other business that goes bust debts are written off or a percentage recovered from sale of assets.
As for the URC, I cannot see a Wasps side recruited between now & September being able to compete with even the Welsh sides. For some people that might be OK but I don't want to watch my team losing by 50 points to Leinsters B team or equivalent every week. Plus away games that will be a struggle to attend & no relegation or promotion? Not for me thanks
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Don't agree with some peoples view of history. Wasps went bust because of decision Wasps made. No one else.
I do agree that maybe things could have gone differently after they went bust if the RFU & PRL had a better plan for the future, but ultimately Wasps caused their own demise.
If Wasps are allowed to come back as franchise club in the mythical Prem2 then what will happen with the "Rugby Debts"? Weren't these a pre req for any return above level 11?
Other debts are gone because Wasps was a business that went bust. Like any other business that goes bust debts are written off or a percentage recovered from sale of assets.
As for the URC, I cannot see a Wasps side recruited between now & September being able to compete with even the Welsh sides. For some people that might be OK but I don't want to watch my team losing by 50 points to Leinsters B team or equivalent every week. Plus away games that will be a struggle to attend & no relegation or promotion? Not for me thanks
It's 2025 they are aiming for I believe.
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It's 2025 they are aiming for I believe.
Not entirely sure whether that would make a difference IMO
Hiring a team to compete with what are essentially 50-60% international sides is going to be a challenge even with no salary cap. They would be starting a team from scratch in June/July to start playing in September. They wouldn't realistically get access to newly hired players before that. That's a big ask! I can't see them being competitive for several seasons.
Obviously not known at the moment how well off Wasps expect to be but will they be able to compete financially?
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If Wasps join the URC would England-qualified players be able to play for England?
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If Wasps join the URC would England-qualified players be able to play for England?
As it currently stands, no. As they would be playing in a league other than the prem.
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Coventry comments reported -
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693
And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.
Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.
Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.
Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that. They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up. They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.
The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.
Which one of Coventry Rugby's times going bust are your commenting on, I understand they have done it more than once?
Additionally, you are missing out a major point in the Wasps administration, that was the fact that people were clambering for Wasps to go to the bottom as soon as they entered administration, something that didn't happen to Coventry.
I also say that if it wasn't for Wasps coming to Coventry, Coventry RFU wouldn't be in the situation they are now. Their support increased after Wasps arrived, which has helped them to build. People also need to remember when Wasps arrived in Cov, Coventry RFC were in National League 1, not the Championship.
I've lived in Coventry for almost 35 years and I went to watch Cov at Coundon road a few times but stopped going as a casual fan as it was a terrible watch, and have actually never visited The Butts, and never will. Their attitude and glee at the demise of Wasps was completely unacceptable.
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I started supporting Wasps back in 1957, and continued to support them until the demise.
The team, at the time of the split to form the professional team, was completely different to the team that played when I started watching, as was the team at the time of the demise. However during that time there was evolution, new players came-in, other players left, but there was continuity.
Similarly even though there were four changes of location the team was the constant.
If the reformed Wasps manage to get started what is the actual continuity with the Wasps I supported?
I will probably equate them with MG cars. Although they share a name and badge, he current, Chinese, MG cars are no more related to the original MGs than the new Wasps will be to the Wasps teams I supported.
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I will probably equate them with MG cars. Although they share a name and badge, he current, Chinese, MG cars are no more related to the original MGs than the new Wasps will be to the Wasps teams I supported.
In the case of MG, that probably isn't a bad thing. Similarly, what made the final 'team' Wasps? It wasn't the ground, so that isn't at issue.
Oddly, it WAS the fans, sitting next to the same people week in and out. Moving such a long way to Kent, there is the possibility that many will know each other (by face if nothing else). But some, like me, will be missing except for the occasional away game that brings the match into travel range.
The back room staff? Lower down the order on the payscale, I doubt that they could afford to move to the South East. I doubt many who live around Coventry could make that move, property prices being what they are in Kent.
So, only the top staff, coaches, trainers maybe.
Players? Some might sign up. What level of skills and fitness would be needed, who knows? Likely a lower level than would be needed in the Premiership.
Too many variables. But, a hint of what Wasps is and were, a whiff? Yes, it will be there.
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So, only the top staff, coaches, trainers maybe.
Players? Some might sign up.
I would be amazed if any of the former staff at any level, coaches, players or back room would sign up. They will already have moved on & taken new roles (hopefully!).
Why would any of them want to be involved with a club that made them redundant in the way Wasps did? Unless they need the money & Wasps have deep pockets? After all no salary cap in the URC?
Jury is out for me until I see how much of Wasps they resurrect, who's in charge & what competition they play in. I am saying that as someone is very local to the proposed Kent site & would potentially be a season ticket holder.
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Jury is out for me until I see how much of Wasps they resurrect, who's in charge & what competition they play in.
Suspect that sentiment is shared by a lot of us. A completely new team, with little to no attachment to the previous teams wouldn't be the same (for me - and many others i'm sure).
There's lots of moving parts to this whole situation. The bottom of the league arguments perhaps make sense in principle. But equally, let's say Wasps do have a backer willing to put a half-decent squad together. Most of the Championship are semi-pro, below that it's basically amateur.
The imbalance between a professional squad, both financially and physically would be enormous and completely farcical. The reality is that from a safety perspective alone, the lowest down a resurrected professional Wasps team should be is the Championship.
I suspect there's a lot of political posturing going on behind the scenes but the RFU, the Premiership and the other Clubs and the Championship.
Regardless of what they say, I really don't think many (or even any) of the Championship clubs want to play in the Prem because of the financial ramifications, but want to play the 'whats it worth to us to not kick up a stick to let Wasps/Irish/Warriors back into Championship' game to try and get some (well deserved) investment from the RFU.
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If Wasps intentions to go for the URC start to have a lot of foundation, I suspect that the RFU will shift significantly!
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If Wasps intentions to go for the URC start to have a lot of foundation, I suspect that the RFU will shift significantly!
All things being equal, I wonder whether the preference from both Fans and Owners/Management would be to play in the Premiership or the URC.
My bet is that if we do come back, it'll be in whatever league loses a team next. At this rate, my money would be on a Welsh region (long mooted) or Falcons (but perhaps they have a saviour in Steve Diamond).
The whole Prem 1 / Prem 2 thing seems to have legs in principle, but the PRL Teams won't dilute their P-Shares and I haven't seen any news about Sponsorship/TV deals being interested in an uplift to cover 18-20 teams worth of TV coverage. So think that's a concept that's dead and buried as no one will agree to it. If that's the case and the Premiership remains ringfenced, it makes no sense for Wasps to come back there.