Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Raggs on October 31, 2017, 11:12:33 AM
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Previous accounts have been released at the end of October, so I'd be expecting the next lot today. Be interesting reading, lets hope for a good result!
On a completely different topic, anyone else getting the annoying inbetween posts adverts on rugbynetwork?
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Any news on this? I've had a google but can't find anything.
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On a totally different, but most likely related (financially) matter, I see that the SISU JR2 case has now moved to the listing officer for listing. Whilst it is due to be heard before October 2018, it can be heard any time before then, IF all the papers/bundles/submissions are in, and it seems that they are (since 27 October 2017).
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Anyway, the results SHOULD be here:
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/retail-bonds/company-news.html?fourWayKey=XS1221940510ZZGBPUKCP
They aren't (as of now at any rate).
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It's possible of course that they have been submitted, it just takes a while for them to be properly uploaded.
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Well, at least the SISU JR2 case is going forwards. At the end of this month will be a short hearing, probably to make sure all papers are in order, and then sometime in April/May 2018 will be a two day hearing. In the first to hear the appeal, and only if that is successful, then they will hear the application. So, Appeal accepted, yes or no, if no, then can SISU appeal that to the Supreme Court? My guess is that they would. If their appeal succeeds, will their application be accepted, yes or no? If it is not accepted, they might also appeal that, and I guess that they would. Best guess? At least 18 months from a final decision. But ti could go on much longer. Unless the courts get fed up with them. Or they run out of money.
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Leicester board reporting a rumour of a premiership club in financial difficulties.
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s103.htm?106,16139008
Although a quick google search found that thread was the only source of any rumour!
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Nice of them to wish us failure!
I read it was Yorkshire Carnegie who were in trouble.
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I think we' all have concerns, probably based more on the fact that Wasps have a history fo not making anything public until they absolutely have to more than genuine concerns grounded in fact.
But that being said if I could make SISU vanish I would...
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I would like to see a reasonable set of accounts to ease my niggling worries a little. That being said the interim accounts showed the losses had come down significantly and I seem to recall had a small profit EBITDA, I think...
I guess David Armstrong was CEO for previous accounts and Nick Eastwood might just have a different idea on when to release the accounts. I don't think they are due until April 18.
Don't they have to conform to certain covenants for the bond this year? I'm sure the whole SISU saga is having an effect and courts have played into their hands allowing them to prolong the legal debate even further.
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I believe the bonds require accounts to be released every 6 months, hence waiting on the next lot. It could be it was only a temporary 6months thing, then moves back to 12 months?
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That makes sense, I think the next bond payment is due towards the end of the week... So we shouldnt have too much longer to wait...
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I notice on the rumour on the Leicester board someone has asked if Wasps could survive relegation. Given the gap in required costs of running an established AP team, are there any of the current AP clubs that could survive relegation these days?
Bristol have only survived because the owner has incredibly deep pockets.
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London Irish seem to have survived relegation okay.
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Think Irish have some good backers too.
I don't think many AP clubs can survive as they are, if they didn't have backers. We'd struggle more than a lot, since our "backer" is more the value of the stadium, rather than Derek. Derek has cash, but he doesn't seem to be as flush as a lot of the owners.
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I understood the 6 month accounts should be issued at the end of October as last year. Also note a fair amount have been changing hands with the price going up and down a bit. The longer it takes the more SBT will suggest we are going bust.
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The only person's opinion on SBT that I appreciate, is OldSkyBlue, seems to know his figures, and approach it from a non-emotional standpoint. The rest can talk all the bollocks they want :D.
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unfortunately SBT has a large proportion of knuckle draggers... And ultimately as long as Wasps as a club are OK it doesn't matter.
The last two years have seen the accounts released on the last day in October, the interim accounts have been a bit more sporadic. This 6 months has seen quite a lot of change with ACL and Wasps holdings merging and a couple of changes at the top (including a change in CEO). The only things that I think are set in stone are that the bond pays out in 6 monthly installments in May and November.
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For me it would make sense for the value of the bonds to drop around the interest payment. If you can get more than the 3.25% by selling, then 103.3 etc isn't a bad price if you invested at 100. Equally, just after the interest has paid out, you might fancy getting your cash out, and again, be willing to sell closer to the 100, since you've just had a payout.
I do want to see the next set of results though, fairly sure that Wasps need to be showing a profit in either this one or the next, and a half decent profit (before taxes etc) too.
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Mind my pub-economics, and correct where appropriate, but I suppose the premise of the bond is that investors get 12 interest payments before the bond matures in May 2022 and bond value is returned. If you want to sell (or buy) the bonds ahead of maturity you are bound by the value. I would have thought that as the number of forward interest payments reduces so will the bond value, but I'm not 100% sure as I guess bond value is also indicative of the markets confidence that it will be met. I suppose at the end of the bond, Wasps will need to raise another bond, or receive other investment to pay the bond off. Taking into account inflation, £35m might be a fair price for such a facility in 2022, or at least it will with my optimists hat on.
Over the course of the bond, Wasps need to ensure that the debt level is at a certain ratio against the combined value of the arena and AP share level, this should be pretty much nailed on with the evaluation of the Arena earlier in the year - unless there has been a significant amount of additional borrowing. The EBITDA (earnings before tax etc) also needs to be a ratio against finance costs, which I guess will be 2.2m per year on the bond plus any additional interest payments. This is the bit that I guess might be tight as I think it needs to be circa £3-4m (at a guess), it was £1.7 in the interim figures, so not far off and the second half of the season will have included the home play off and season ticket money.
Ultimately, they're still investing in the squad and changes are afoot regards ACL so figures crossed all is ok. Big investments such as training facility and new screens are not showing signs of appearing, however these will require significant capital investment without much (short term) revenue return. We have however managed to convince Daly to stay and have the money to get playing cover in. There are quite a lot of positives with the npower tie up and arena generator project and also new sponsorships. What we have achieved so far has also been managed alongside a disruptive tennant in SISU and no "big" stadium naming rights deal, so all in all the club appear to be doing OK. So, as you say Raggs, hopefully we will see something soon.
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London Irish seem to have survived relegation okay.
Irish have millions in the bank from the sale of Sunbury.
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So the payment should be made on the 13th. I guess if we fail to pay, it'll hit the news quickly enough, not that I think it's likely though. Hopefully though it will bring the accounts up though.
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So still no accounts and now a statement pulling out of the purpose built training centre. It is difficult not to put the two together - delay and cancellation. Can't help feeling we might be in a little bother - hope not.
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So still no accounts and now a statement pulling out of the purpose built training centre. It is difficult not to put the two together - delay and cancellation. Can't help feeling we might be in a little bother - hope not.
I know, I can't help feel the same. Amid the positives of resigning Daly and Ash, along with news that Launch is probably staying I do have this slight concern that there is a bombshell waiting to be dropped. I do however hope that this is just Eastwood applying changes to the original plan based on what he thinks will work best. There hasn't been a big stadium sponsorship or investment announced so there will clearly not be money sloshing around waiting to be invested in infrastructure. That doesn't mean that we are necessarily about to go pop.
Based on the new (albeit temporary) signings there is clearly money in the bank or at least someone's bank... It is kind of why I would be happy if this season saw a batch of fresh faces blooded into the first team to help get the wages costs down.
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We have picked up a couple of new sponsors though, albeit not stadium sponsers. There's the Sputum on the shirt, and the other one on the shorts? Every little helps!
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https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09435073
Next accounts due on the 31st of December. Not sure why there's such a difference, but until we get to the 31st of Dec, I'm not going to be concerned.
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I like to drop in on SBT when I want a good laugh.
Liquid Gold posted on Nov 4th (after the AWC game against Falcons): "Another loss and attendance was only 7,517. The twats are falling apart. "
Followed up by stupot07: "Haha league two attendance for the mighty wasps. Lol".
Ignorance is bliss. SBT's wet dream continues. Brace of dummies who don't know the (un)importance of the AW Cup.
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I think they followed that up with 3k for the FA cup which I assume they are bothered about...
I really don't get the obsession with a few of them. Coventry is a decent sized city with a decent catchment area and only a single pro football team. As soon as another club (in a different sport) looks to offer something different there is a view that they should be chased out of town!
I always say you should concentrate your efforts on making yourself better and not trying to make yourself believe that you are something that you're not.
On the subject of accounts, we will see them later in the year. We've had some positive news over this season and AP attendances have been OK given the early performance wobbles. Roll on the Falcons on Saturday!
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Actually, I genuinely feel for them. We were tenants at Loftus Road and Adams Park and very much got the thin end of the wedge. It was very frustrating and it didn't look like we could do much about it. They have a dream that we will vanish in a puff of smoke and The Ricoh will fall into their laps. And don't forget they have the absolutely appalling SISU like a monstrous anaconda wrapped round their necks. I was really pleased when CCFC came away with a bit of silverware at the end of last season.
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Exactly Ross.
I posted on DW about how it would difficult for all of us accept similar changes were roles reversed.
Some would roll with it, but others would hold a serious grudge - afterall, there's still Wasps fans out there who hold a grudge against Wasps.
Too much anger and disappointment has been stewing for too long. It can't and won't simply disappear and we're now another target for it.
It's a genuine shame that a mutually beneficial deal can't be struck.... but i wouldn't want to be dealing with SISU either