Always a Wasp
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46
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Championship Clubs V RFU
« on: January 10, 2024, 06:12:50 PM »
For consulting read dictating.
47
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: DT Today
« on: January 10, 2024, 04:34:12 PM »
Whilst, as with all 'well researched' pieces of journalism, this is riddled with hyperbole and speculation.
EXCEPT, as anybody will tell you who knows the area, it is a traffic nightmare at the best of times. It is totally unsuited to any form of mass entertainment venue.
I am not sure what sort of desperation would lead Mr Holland to even propose this.
He will spend years jumping from one idea to the next hare brained idea. In the meantime, what he should have done was to start a new team at any ground he could rent (or at Henley), and start working up the leagues. It will be a long road, but a journey starts with the first step.
By the time Wasps get close to the Championship, it will have been decades since it played any closer (to London) than High Wycombe, so I doubt that there will much of a fan base left in that M25 ring by then.
This idea has about as much chance of getting of the ground as the RFU 2 tier Premiership.
Once all the appeals have been done, and permission finally refused, another couple of years will have gone by.
EXCEPT, as anybody will tell you who knows the area, it is a traffic nightmare at the best of times. It is totally unsuited to any form of mass entertainment venue.
I am not sure what sort of desperation would lead Mr Holland to even propose this.
He will spend years jumping from one idea to the next hare brained idea. In the meantime, what he should have done was to start a new team at any ground he could rent (or at Henley), and start working up the leagues. It will be a long road, but a journey starts with the first step.
By the time Wasps get close to the Championship, it will have been decades since it played any closer (to London) than High Wycombe, so I doubt that there will much of a fan base left in that M25 ring by then.
This idea has about as much chance of getting of the ground as the RFU 2 tier Premiership.
Once all the appeals have been done, and permission finally refused, another couple of years will have gone by.
48
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Ex Wasps signing for new clubs
« on: December 29, 2023, 06:38:30 AM »NWW,
Where in NY? My father ran a pub in Pickering in the late ?60 & ?70s and I went to school there before I joined the Army in ?72 and I know the area reasonably well.
I might have gotten the region wrong, but the North Yorkshire Moors, some miles North West of Kettlewell. At least, that was the village the kind (and very strong) walker who found me carried me to. July or August of 1976.
49
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Ex Wasps signing for new clubs
« on: December 28, 2023, 10:22:14 PM »Odogwu ruptured achilles.
Been there. Done that. Damn painful. Even with modern techniques, his season is done.
Without modern techniques (happened 50 years ago for me, in the middle of nowhere in North Yorkshire), I never truly recovered, played only a few games after that. Still hurts today sometimes.
50
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Turn your phone off at rugby!
« on: December 24, 2023, 10:31:38 AM »This is brilliant, if you get a new iPhone for Christmas remember Stuart and turn off tracking!
https://twitter.com/Champrugby/status/1738662099960594815?t=j2ehxkHRb8fmT7zyn5JIFw&s=19
The PA guy had that typical rugby dry sense of humour. Quality. I was half expecting it to be the ref, and for him to fish the phone out of his back pocket.
51
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: DECEMBER
« on: December 22, 2023, 08:20:53 PM »
Let the battle of social media words commence, and may victory be delivered to the one with the most likes and followers.
52
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: DECEMBER
« on: December 21, 2023, 05:12:50 PM »I see the European Courts declared UEFA's blocking of the proposed football Euro club super league, (or whatever it was going to be called) to be unlawful. Assumedly this means it would be illegal for the RFU or World Rugby to block a new Wasps or Wuss team joining the URC (should such a thing ever happen).
Correct. It throws aside the gentlemen's agreement around country controlled sport, where there is one body to control each sport per country. A not unreasonable exemption to competition and free trade laws, provided those bodies act reasonably and in the best interests of all. But they do not, and they are now going to reap the consequences of that. The politicians, almost certainly long used to accepting bungs on this matter, will stay silent and bleat that it is the courts and lawyers doing this, and what can they do?
In England, it could give the PRL the right to jetison the RFU, and stop paying them money. I can see that happening.
What then for national teams? Where do they draw the players from? Would the top French clubs try to follow suit?
What about TV 'rights'.
It could get messy. I hope it does. Did Kerry Packer truly change cricket? I think he did. For the better? I doubt it. The rich got richer. It went behind a paywall and lost viewership and fans. But, the local game and youth game is probably stronger for not having the top layer ruling the roost.
Rugby would be so much better off without the PRL clubs being involved at all. What about the academies? I suspect (most of) the PRL clubs would be happy to dispose of their community involvement tomorrow, and instead let others organize that at no cost to the PRL.
53
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Possible news?
« on: December 20, 2023, 08:13:34 PM »
I suspect that's why the attempt to do another equity release, and then the loans, and then a buyout.
Someone else had control, and that someone wanted to drown Wasps. Someone who wanted the stadium, cheap as they could. Someone bought the stadium, very cheaply. Was that the same someone, only the Devil will know. I certainly would not wish to point any fingers. But, always follow the money.
I think Wasps and Derek simply got in the way of some very bad people.
Someone else had control, and that someone wanted to drown Wasps. Someone who wanted the stadium, cheap as they could. Someone bought the stadium, very cheaply. Was that the same someone, only the Devil will know. I certainly would not wish to point any fingers. But, always follow the money.
I think Wasps and Derek simply got in the way of some very bad people.
54
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Falcons - Year of Unrest
« on: December 20, 2023, 08:32:04 AM »Indeed. Falcons are, in essence, trapped. No means to be competitive. No trap door to go through. Still, at least the RFU are focussed on helping The Cheats retain Itoje.Chaos
Yes, but not much worse/
difference than was likely going on at Warriors/Wasps/Irish.
But, that it was, and probably still is, going on at Falcons is what is telling. Give it between a month and two months, and the same type of stories will emerge, as the owner avoids offering new contracts, stops paying people, etc.
Their only way out is to use the nuclear option. Become insolvent, then immediately pay all rugby creditors, and get admitted in to the Championship.
55
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Falcons - Year of Unrest
« on: December 19, 2023, 11:17:22 AM »Chaos
Yes, but not much worse/difference than was likely going on at Warriors/Wasps/Irish.
But, that it was, and probably still is, going on at Falcons is what is telling. Give it between a month and two months, and the same type of stories will emerge, as the owner avoids offering new contracts, stops paying people, etc.
56
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Premiership clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut costs
« on: December 12, 2023, 05:46:23 PM »Yet another story about what might happen, even admitting that discussions are still ongoing.
Pointless. All parties need to stop leaking bits of it to test the water, just get on and thrash out the agreement (sorry "Partnership".
To answer your point Nelly, if the rules are written properly you would not be able to just "loan" a player from another club (obviously with caveats for specialist positions like front row or maybe a medical joker type arrangement like the top 14)
Make a rule, someone will always find a way around it.
57
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Premiership clubs to face squad limits under new regulations to cut costs
« on: December 12, 2023, 12:12:22 PM »
So. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Let's take the case of Club X, let's give them the code name of 'cheats'.
Cheats know that 35 players in a squad could leave them short in the case of injury, and before they could have simply recalled a 'loan' player from a friendly Championship club down the road.
Let's say that loan player is now 'let go', and signs formerly for that same Championship club. And, because the sugar daddy who funds the cheats is feeling generous, he agrees to help said local Championship club with a donation. Let's say it is equal to what cheats would have paid that same player the year before. And an injury happens, and the cheats call the coach at that local Championship side. 'Any chance you could loan us player y for a few games?' 'Not a problem, being as you have been so nice in helping us with funding this year,' is the reply they get.
What is the bottom line difference?
What happens if the PRL outlaw the Premiership sugar daddy from making such donations? Maybe a club sponsor might suddenly also sponsor the Championship club?
Now, I am not for one moment suggesting that a club like cheats would be so sneaky and underhand as to avoid rules that were laid down clearly for the benefit of the game ...
Let's take the case of Club X, let's give them the code name of 'cheats'.
Cheats know that 35 players in a squad could leave them short in the case of injury, and before they could have simply recalled a 'loan' player from a friendly Championship club down the road.
Let's say that loan player is now 'let go', and signs formerly for that same Championship club. And, because the sugar daddy who funds the cheats is feeling generous, he agrees to help said local Championship club with a donation. Let's say it is equal to what cheats would have paid that same player the year before. And an injury happens, and the cheats call the coach at that local Championship side. 'Any chance you could loan us player y for a few games?' 'Not a problem, being as you have been so nice in helping us with funding this year,' is the reply they get.
What is the bottom line difference?
What happens if the PRL outlaw the Premiership sugar daddy from making such donations? Maybe a club sponsor might suddenly also sponsor the Championship club?
Now, I am not for one moment suggesting that a club like cheats would be so sneaky and underhand as to avoid rules that were laid down clearly for the benefit of the game ...
58
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: 2023/24 season
« on: December 07, 2023, 02:52:33 PM »There is inherent danger in the Falcon's approach. Depends how many fans they lose through the door. If they drop say 1000 of the more casual/selective fans, how does that hurt? If 500 season ticket holders drop to pay as you go, and next year is as bad, and they don't go, what then. They have already lost 3 home games and are in this position presumably due to cash, which they could end up losing. Plus NUFC are doing well, and people's wallets are empty.
People will support a losing team, of course. A Tigers team losing 1k fans in a bad season isn't the end of the world, but for smaller clubs. Ouch.
Indeed, a no win situation. They dropped ST prices massively this year in an attempt to pull the cash in up front, but they ended up with less, not more ST holders.
As you say, they are losing the pay as you go business. Times are very hard in Newcastle, and cash is short. I think this would have happened whether or not they cut prices, whether or not they cut the squad salary bill, and effectively reduced the quality of the team. I think it would have happened even if they were half way up the table. There simply isn't the spare money in the local economy on Tyneside. I cannot imagine that things are much better at Sale.
Their sugar daddies are committed to keep their respective clubs 'going' until the last match. That means paying bills and salaries only when they have to. At some point, the taps will be turned off. I expect the players will play their last game only to find they don't get paid for that. The same goes for ground staff and suppliers.
The only question is, which of the 10 sugar daddies will turn off those taps towards the end of this season? Not just one I suspect, but Falcons must be a sure bet right now.
I do not relish this prospect, other than to recognise that it might make a Wasps return a little easier, and might see all the fat cats at the PRL and RFU go.
Some intriguing comments on the Rugby Pod this week around the finances at Newcastle and the rumours that the Falcons owner wants to do a Warriors by having the club slowly disappear and then to have the land for development/to sell, that was from Goodey. There was comment, I think by Jim, that some of the players are on effectively zero hours contracts.
It really does seem to be in a bad place.
All they have to do is to make sure that the club rents the ground, and the ground ownership rests elsewhere, that no loans be secured on the ground, then simply not pay HMRC/DCMS who will cheerfully start the winding up process. The process takes a while, so, given that Newcastle will need their ground last on 10 May for their last home game, they would likely need to leave any default with the authorities until payments due after the end of January, about 8 weeks from now. That would be about the same time as the PRL will seek financial assurances for 2024/25 season from the cub owners. I wouldn't mind betting that trade creditors at some of the clubs are already seeing delayed payments (or non payment).
As to zero hours contracts, whilst not common in the NH, NZ certainly have this in some teams. If you are injured, or not wanted, you don't get paid.
59
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: 2023/24 season
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:22:06 AM »There is inherent danger in the Falcon's approach. Depends how many fans they lose through the door. If they drop say 1000 of the more casual/selective fans, how does that hurt? If 500 season ticket holders drop to pay as you go, and next year is as bad, and they don't go, what then. They have already lost 3 home games and are in this position presumably due to cash, which they could end up losing. Plus NUFC are doing well, and people's wallets are empty.
People will support a losing team, of course. A Tigers team losing 1k fans in a bad season isn't the end of the world, but for smaller clubs. Ouch.
Indeed, a no win situation. They dropped ST prices massively this year in an attempt to pull the cash in up front, but they ended up with less, not more ST holders.
As you say, they are losing the pay as you go business. Times are very hard in Newcastle, and cash is short. I think this would have happened whether or not they cut prices, whether or not they cut the squad salary bill, and effectively reduced the quality of the team. I think it would have happened even if they were half way up the table. There simply isn't the spare money in the local economy on Tyneside. I cannot imagine that things are much better at Sale.
Their sugar daddies are committed to keep their respective clubs 'going' until the last match. That means paying bills and salaries only when they have to. At some point, the taps will be turned off. I expect the players will play their last game only to find they don't get paid for that. The same goes for ground staff and suppliers.
The only question is, which of the 10 sugar daddies will turn off those taps towards the end of this season? Not just one I suspect, but Falcons must be a sure bet right now.
I do not relish this prospect, other than to recognise that it might make a Wasps return a little easier, and might see all the fat cats at the PRL and RFU go.
60
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: 2023/24 season
« on: December 04, 2023, 05:44:15 PM »
I see RiL are saying that with Falcons, the RFU should intervene and financially help them. After, they are the only true Northern club and the league cannot drop below 10 teams , ....
Well, at least we know which team they support now.
Well, at least we know which team they support now.