Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: wasps on May 31, 2019, 08:43:48 AM
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Sorry for a Danny Cipriani thread.
I usually stay quiet about Eddie Jones' unusual team selections, and his general approach to ignoring certain players.
He has a plan, and whether I like it or not, of rather have someone in charge who actually has a plan, rather than someone just winging it.
However, there's articles floating around now suggesting that Danny will be in the wider world cup squad as scrum half cover.
I thought that Itoje/Lawes in the back row was unconventional, but could potentially provide a power based option.
Hughes as 2nd row cover seemed contrary to the above approach, but ok, maybe it's with experimenting.
Daly at full back has been tried before so isn't Eddie's brain child, but he seems adamant on sticking with it whether it adds anything to the team it not.
I thought Nowell as back row cover was a joke, but evidently not.
However Danny Cipriani as scrum half cover just seems ludicrous.
You have one of the most talented attacking fly halves in the world at your disposal, but instead you wish to negate those skills by playing him in a position he's never played before where he'll have less time to see the plays, less options, and somewhere where it won't come naturally to him
Eddie has said time and again that he can't have Danny in his squad unless he's No1.
I don't really understand that statement, but fair enough.
How can he therefore consider him as an emergency scrum half?
I'm now waiting fit the Christian Wade call up as tight head prop cover
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That's one of the most ridiculous proposals I've heard for a long time. 9 is a specialist position and whilst some 9's can also play elswewhere in the backs (Greg Laidlaw - often moving to 10.. which seems a common practise in France) I doubt many backs could move into 9 as a full game stand in. Possibly someone could stumble through for a 10 min sin bin period. Ford would seem the obvious choice in that scenario
Didn't Holmes do that against us at Welford Rd? I remember the camera in the changing room at halftime where Stankovic was teaching him out how to put the ball into the scrum which requies timing between the hooker and 9.
Bergamasco was chosen as 9 once for Italy with disastrous results.
I wonder if this is just a bored journalist concocting a story to sell newspapers or whether this has been heard from within the Eng hierarchy?
I'm presuming EJ and other international coaches main dilemma is the make up of the bench for each game but the fact Fazza can play at 10 or 12, and Itoje can play 5 and 6 gives EJ flexibility which shouldn't require a non scrumhalf filling in at 9
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I wonder if this is just a bored journalist concocting a story to sell newspapers or whether this has been heard from within the Eng hierarchy?
Looks like it!!!!
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BG
Wasn't Holmes a scrum half for us before he became a winger for Tigers?
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Marcus Smith was pulled out of the U20 World Cup squad to play against Barbarians, he used to play 9 until he was 15/16 (only a couple of years or so ago!!) so could be another option if Eddie wants to pursue this idea, can't see any other reason why he is not going to U20 World Cup apart from being involved in the Senior one.
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It’s a thing in France. Michalak, Elisalde, Parra etc. have all done it, but as has been said, they’re all nines who can turn their hand at ten.
£5 at nine? No. We need a specialist nine as cover.
Danny’s problem is, unless we go with only five props, he’s the 32nd man in a squad of 31.
My squad:
Back Three: Nowell, Watson, May, Daly, Cokanasiga
Midfield: Joseph, Tuilagi, Slade, Farrell, Ford
Scrum Half: Young, Robson?, Care
Prop: Hepburn/Moon, Genge, Sinkler, Williams, Cole, Vunipola M
Hooker: George, Cowan-Dickie, Hartley/Singleton
Lock: Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Launchbury
Back Row: Wilson, Curry T, Vunipola B, Hughes, Shields/Underhill
The versatility of Farrell, Daly, Itoje, Lawes, and even Shields gives options, but you have to have three for each front row position, and scrum half, IMHO.
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If a player picks up a tournament ending injury, can a replacement be flown in?
Both Teo and Tuilagi are a little injury prone/fragile.
Also if its a choice between Shields and Underhill I'd probably go for Underhill. I think he offers a bit more flexibility
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Chilham, EJ has given strong indications that he sees only 2 9s in his squad, hence the lack of trying out options before. Maybe that's where the "someone else has to be a cover 9" stories are coming from?
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I suspect someone in the England camp is dropping rumours to see which gullible Journos run with it.
I don't think most players have mush time for journalists so I expect a certain amount of sniggering is going on somewhere
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If a player picks up a tournament ending injury, can a replacement be flown in?
Yes no problem replacing someone who won't play again. The issue is a player with a minor injury cannot be temporarily replaced. So they either go home or someone already in the squad covers while they are unabailable.
So its madness for any position where there is 1 on the field and 1 on the bench (scrum half and hooker) to only take 2 players. No bench option if 1 is unfit for a game.
That's why limiting the squad to 37 is ridiculous. Ideally you need 2 for every position and a complete set of replacements. So 30 + 8. Don't know why tournament organiser doesn't get it. Should have changed when 7 on bench became 8.
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Shane Williams was only selected for 2003 world cup as a back who could be 3rd choice 9, the rest is history!!
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I thought the WC squad size was restricted to 31.. if its 37 then that makes things a lot easier.
I see what your saying Mellie though.. a scrumhalf might get injured but the injury only keeps that scrumhalf out for 1 game.. so a replacement can't be sent for .. which leaves the next match day squad with only one scrumhalf.
If EJ is planning on only taking 2 scrumhalfs does that almost mean that the squad will included Fazza plus 2 additional 10's one of which might have to be temp 9 cover? I think Ford has practised playing 9 in training before
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I think someone is on a wind up . Still can’t see Jones taking Cipriani to the World Cup as he will be admitting he got it wrong and he doesn’t strike me as a man that could do that. It’s a shame, because Cipriani will be deprived of a game for the Barbarians. I hope I am proved wrong and he goes to Japan, just can’t see it personally
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Pat Lam is saying that he was told he couldn't pick Cipriani, and the assumption is that it's because he's going to be called up to the World Cup squad.
Jones apparently used a 10 as an emergency scrum half when he was in charge of Japan, so maybe that's where the idea has come from.
Still seems ludicrous to me
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There's a school of thought that if you're English and have been allowed (by the RFU) to be selected for either Eng or Baa-Baas that you won't be in consideration for the WC squad.. Not good news for Marcus Smith but that being the case why was he pulled out of the U20 WC squad to play in a meaningless money making game.
It appears there's an equivalent Womens game taking place on the same day as well. The RFU are really trying to extarct every last £ from supporters to fill the black hole in their finances aren't they.
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As the womens game is before the mens & its all on the same ticket, you're logic is flawed slightly.
Also, given how much players enjoy the Barbarians experience, most of the players involved would probably disagree thats its worthless.
but then maybe you would also class the Lions as just a money making exercise?....
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Article about all of this in The Guardian and the journalist involved is usually pretty good. The key points:
- Lam not allowed to select Cipriani leading to conjecture that he would be in the England training squad at least.
- EJ will take only two scrum halves with Cipriani or Farrell providing some kind of cover!!!
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And the key fact.
Eddie is a supremely arrogant self-serving prick with an attitude, who believes he can reinvent the game and stick two fingers up at the media whilst insulting most countries his teams play against. Numbers are for conventional coaches, Eddie does not believe in them and needs to demonstate his genius touch at every opportunity. The story may or may not be true, but it would not be believable with most coaches.
Btw, I love the barbarians, and would be happier to watch them than Eddie's England. What rugby should be about, in many ways. Pat Lam is a top bloke, such a contrast with Eddie.
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I'm no Eddie fan either - he's singlehandedly been responsible for my fading interest in the England team - I ended up cheering Scotland on in the 6Ns and hoped they would win!
Certainly there are a few pros who aren't exactly fans - but axes to grind etc
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108275798/new-book-reveals-how-eddie-jones-loses-assistant-coaches-and-dressing-rooms