Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: backdoc on April 26, 2024, 09:59:58 PM
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I experienced the club from 96-07, and we are all aware that players like Horan, Lynagh, Sella, A Farrell, A Sanderson have contributed enormously to the game, whatever the status of their salary etc.
The player group from 09 onwards were involved in the extra salary house-buying schemes funded by the club owner's that ended in the scandal with fines and relegation.
This group of players are starting to move on from Saracens, either to retire or play elsewhere for a year or two.
My plea is that these cheats are not acceptable as future media pundits to the TV or media audience.
I do not want Farrell Jr or Jamie George on my TV screen acting as though their career success was based solely on their talent.
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Seconded - big time.
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Agreed. And although it won?t happen they shouldn?t be referred to as ?two time league winner? etc etc.
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Agreed. And although it won?t happen they shouldn?t be referred to as ?two time league winner? etc etc.
Better as Two time (as far as has been caught) long term cheats!
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.....have won nothing.
End of.
Medals in the bin, as Brian Clough once said.
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My plea is that these cheats are not acceptable as future media pundits to the TV or media audience.
I do not want Farrell Jr or Jamie George on my TV screen acting as though their career success was based solely on their talent.
We'll never really know for sure how complicit players were in the whole thing given the lack of clarity we're struggled for already. The truth is that gaming the system has been present in rugby for many years - Be it Saracens and the Salary Cap, Tigers and their image rights, Harlequins and Bloodgate, us and non-contested scrums, France and HIAs etc etc...
Rumours as well for a long time that Bath and Exeter were over the cap, as well as how Chiefs have been financed by Rowe.
I can't imagine that Farrell would welcome or enjoy the punditry work. Although unlike you, i'd welcome a bit more exposure of him as a person rather than the robot pre/post-match interviews he gives. The interview after the Semi-Final against South Africa was much more human and exposed the qualities that many players and coaches talk about him bringing.
George would be an excellent pundit I think. There's a lot to like about him.
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Uncontested scrums is on field, I always draw the difference between on and off field cheating. Drugs, financial shenanigans etc. are a world away from on field using of laws or indeed blood capsules. You can sanction one, but not the off field stuff.
That said I am not naive enough to think all our players would have been blameless on the drugs front at the dawn of professionalism, by all accounts there were a lot more 90s performance enhancers in Athletics, and once the money rolled in to rugby I would be shocked if no anabolics were in the sport back then....
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Personally I can't blame the players at Sarries for the cheating. They were told it was all above board, how were they to know?
Unpopular opinion on here I know. Don't care
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Personally I can't blame the players at Sarries for the cheating. They were told it was all above board, how were they to know?
Unpopular opinion on here I know. Don't care
Just don't believe it in some cases.
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Personally I can't blame the players at Sarries for the cheating. They were told it was all above board, how were they to know?
Players would have to be incredibly naive to accept being set up as directors of companies outside of the club's books and not understand that something dodgy is going on regards the financial incentives on top of their wages.
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Personally I can't blame the players at Sarries for the cheating. (IF)They were told it was all above board, how were they to know?
Unpopular opinion on here I know. Don't care
I don't think for one minute the senior Sarries players that were given "other income sources" were present day Einsteins but surely they couldn't be so thick as to believe it was legitimate?
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And what about McCall and the rest of the coaching staff?
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If it's too good to believe, then it is And it was. Hopefully the recent Sarries incumbents have avoided the bad practises.
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Personally I can't blame the players at Sarries for the cheating. They were told it was all above board, how were they to know?
In which case they are all mind-bogglingly thick. It is basic maths. One or two might be that stupid. An entire team? You will be putting out a sack for Santa next if you believe that.
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My understanding was that it was known about not just by Sarries players but by virtually everyone in the game. It was so blindingly obvious that you?d have had to be incredibly naive not to have known. They were all complicit. They were all cheats.
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Itoje being paid for in-person appearances and speaking gigs he wasn't expected to do?
And we're supposed to think he didn't realise it was dodgy?
Nah.
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Itoje being paid for in-person appearances and speaking gigs he wasn't expected to do?
And we're supposed to think he didn't realise it was dodgy?
Nah.
And he's supposed to be one of the brighter ones ::)
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I?m sure the occasions were only enhanced by his paid non appearance.
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Saracens? work hard, play hard culture is much lauded, but now feels tainted
Insider adamant that despite Billy Vunipola?s conviction, the team bonding sessions have fuelled their era of unprecedented success
Ben Coles, Rugby Reporter 8 May 2024 ? 6:57am
During an interview last week following his arrest after a drunken disagreement in a Majorcan bar, the Saracens No 8 Billy Vunipola, clearly remorseful for his actions after being tasered twice at half four in the morning by Spanish police, made the following remarks during a lengthy apology. ?I caused a huge amount of embarrassment and put a spotlight on the club when they were trying to do something nice for us... I ruined it for myself and for everyone else.?
Those comments help convey how important Saracens? team socials are to their players, aware that a negative spotlight was now shining on their mid-season trips abroad with the positive benefits pushed to one side.
Twice each season ? once during the campaign and another during the off-season ? the Saracens squad have gone abroad for similar trips, seen as valuable chances to bond off the field.
To be clear, Vunipola had splintered off from the rest of the group and was accompanied by one other player, prop Marco Riccioni. Based on the account provided by the owner of the Epic bar in Palma, Riccioni conducted himself impeccably and tried to assist as much as he could, albeit to no avail. Vunipola, drinking for the first time in months and continually refusing to put his shirt back on, was tasered twice and then arrested, sedated, bailed, fined by a court and released with a suspended four-month prison sentence.
Building a strong culture has been an integral part of Saracens? rise to the top over the past two decades, from the creation of the Wolfpack defence to the introduction of the Tiki Tonga celebration, around the same time of the first Saracens trip to Cape Town all the way back in 2009, which was markedly different to how Vunipola?s night finished.
The squad trained, did some community work building houses in a township and, yes, had some nights out. As the team became more successful in the early 2010s, the time available to make those trips happen decreased and they instead became mid-season events; finding weekends in the schedule, or Sunday-Monday trips if the squad had played on a Saturday.
?You get to know them on a deeper level?
?They became more like blowouts,? as one source who has been part of previous trips put it to Telegraph Sport, before adding that the ethos from the original idea to Cape Town remained the same. ?The basic principle was that you spend time together away from your families, your worries, just the boys together. You have some drinks, it does relax people, you become closer and more connected. You understand their motivations, what inspires them, anything that goes on in their family life ? you get to know them on a deeper level.?
Players would be given conversation cards which had to be kept on them at all times; some light-hearted, some deeper, from what superhero they would be to their greatest fear. There would be group lunches with other players they did not know as well, spending time with younger players in the squad but also the club?s coaching staff.
The source adds: ?If you have that increase in motivation and deeper respect for each other, that brotherhood, then in those toughest moments you will fight for that person even more. That?s the difference between winning and losing the biggest moments.?
Since the trips were first introduced, Saracens? players and management have been to around 20 locations. There has been skiing in Verbier (without much skiing), a music festival in Chicago, spending 36 hours in Barcelona, time training in Florida with the Miami Dolphins.
When the England head coach Steve Borthwick was Saracens captain he was due to attend the 2010 Heineken Cup launch in Cardiff, only to pull out at the last minute to attend what was described by Saracens at the time as an ?important squad meeting?. In Munich. At Oktoberfest. Saracens were fined ?4,240 by tournament organisers; money well spent, they would argue, given that led by Borthwick they went on to win the Premiership title for the first time the following summer.
In the ensuing 15 years since that first squad trip up Table Mountain, Saracens have won more trophies than any other English club with six league titles (having made a further three finals), and three European Cups in the space of four years. When the trips have gone well, which they have almost all of the time, they appear to be a resounding success.
?Usually it is self-policed?
The source added: ?Obviously, there?s been incidents. Of course, there have been times when people have gone too far, but usually, touch wood, it is self-policed ? the boys get the boys home. The golden rule we say on the trips is to look after each other and make sure we get home OK, have each other?s backs.? Hence the sight of Riccioni on the bar?s CCTV, having done what he could, watching Vunipola?s arrest unfold.
The club?s relationship historically with alcohol had been viewed in a positive light ? think Alex Goode?s multi-day session after Saracens? European Cup triumph in 2019, still in his full kit by Monday evening. It is therefore unfortunate timing, to say the least, that Vunipola?s arrest for disobedience and assaulting a police officer comes a year after Kapeli Pifeleti, the Saracens hooker, plead guilty to assaulting someone on a night out in Clapham, resulting in a fine from the courts and a formal warning from the club.
Vunipola?s arrest has been swiftly dealt with and was obviously serious ? give he was tasered twice by police officers ? although it pales in comparison with the 2015 incident involving a fire extinguisher in Budapest which ended up finishing the career of the club?s flanker, Matt Hankin, after a drinking game went too far. Wearing a metal helmet, Hankin received a ?tap on the head?, according to the High Court judgment, from the fire extinguisher delivered by another player and suffered a concussion. He was erroneously cleared to return to play ahead of schedule, diagnosed with sinusitis, before suffering another concussion and being forced to retire. Hankin went on to sue the team-mate who instigated the original concussion, Richard Barrington, the club?s doctor who cleared him, Ademola Adejuwon, and Saracens for ?3.15m. The case was settled out of court, with Barrington and Adejuwon paying damages.
?It was a sad tale about someone?s career. Now, that is one black mark, which isn?t really related to a trip, I would say, because [the issue] was what happened when he got back,? the source adds. ?Yeah, there are times where people might have a fall or stuff like that, but generally no injuries, no issues. The boys appreciate that we?re very lucky to go on these trips. It is what people love doing, it?s really exciting and it?s fun. You do feel really connected.
?[Billy] was a public one, but there are certainly a lot more positives than negatives and players really believe in [the team socials]. It?s very hard to quantify, but they have a huge impact in terms of togetherness, knowing each other better, having fun together, feeling as though you are part of the whole group. Those players who are injured or not involved as much, they feel part of it and train harder, push the team harder, and the whole group moves as one altogether, which is so important.?
After Vunipola?s actions the team socials naturally feel a little tarnished, hence the No 8?s obvious contrition. It?s a feeling which will probably take many incident-free excursions to shift. However the purpose of them, and the ensuing success Saracens have had on the field, despite what happened in Majorca should not be overlooked.