Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: andermt on June 04, 2020, 09:19:38 AM
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Worth listening to the latest House of Rugby podcast.
Sam talking to Hask and Alex Payne, being quite frank about his career, and time with Union.
Safe to say he won't be on the Ford's christmas card list......
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Yes, I read this on the BBC! Safe to say they aren't friends.
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How will Tigers make their new coaching team work? It all looks a bit top heavy. Where does Ford fit in?
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I don't think I've ever heard a sportsman lay into a former boss quite like that
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I don't think I've ever heard a sportsman lay into a former boss quite like that
Apart from George Best on Wogan! :D
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Anyone that speaks about Mike Ford is of the same opinion, a slimey not to be trusted snake...so Burgess is not alone.
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A truly horrible time for English rugby, whilst it is hard not to feel sorry for SB, it is equally hard to see how his games in the back row at Bath had led to his selection at the WC at centre. Politics everywhere you look. How did we come onto our WC in such a mess?
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His interviews have always amounted to "It's everyone else's fault but mine."
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His interviews have always amounted to "It's everyone else's fault but mine."
Which is not what I heard. Certainly says it is his view/take on things but others may disagree. Interesting that Hask seems to support his view on a few matters.
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Whilst House of Rugby is quite entertaining, I wouldn't always depend on it for the exact facts of any particular issue. I haven't listened to this one yet, but all the others have always been a one sided view of an incident. That's always going to be the case given its a platform for rugby people to talk mostly about themselves & re-live past incidents etc.
That said, I love it & it's always worth a listen.
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It's possible to think that Mike Ford is a bit of a vindictive prick, as well as thinking that Sam Burgess refuses to acknowledge that he wasn't as good at Union as he thinks he was, and never took responsibility for his own shortcomings.
It was Ford after all that wanted to play him in the back row and was doing a decent job of it.
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Joe ford appears to be defending his brother.
Doesn't seem to be making any comments in respect to his dad
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Not listened, but will add that Burgess looked rather lost on several occassions as to what he should be doing in that Wales game.
And George may have been annoyed at the fact that he should have been starting the game, and can reasonably point to an inexperienced, hyped up league convert, to taking his spot (albeit via a reshuffle), without deserving to be there.
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It was Ford after all that wanted to play him in the back row and was doing a decent job of it.
and Burgess talks about Ford suggesting he play 6 as a bit of a master-stroke. He was well aware of his shortcomings and speaks about his awkwardness at being selected to play in the Centres at Bath when JJ/Eastmond were just about then best pairing in the league.
I'm not sure you can blame him for being selected for the England squad. Or being picked for the Wales game - he spoke about his surprise at being selected to start.
He seems pretty self-aware in the interview and gives compliments were they're due, speaks about his own shortcomings but that ultimately he backed himself to perform to the best of his ability and to be able to add something to the squad but then, quite rightly assuming it's true, highlights the backstabbing from Mike Ford who seemingly had an agenda - An agenda that's easy to believe given he seems to oust people wherever he goes.
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Ford sabotaged his centre play. He consistently played him at 13, and not 12. 13 is a very easy channel to be made a fool of in defence.
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Not listened, but will add that Burgess looked rather lost on several occassions as to what he should be doing in that Wales game.
And George may have been annoyed at the fact that he should have been starting the game, and can reasonably point to an inexperienced, hyped up league convert, to taking his spot (albeit via a reshuffle), without deserving to be there.
+1
I watched Burgess play a few times for Bath and in fact I think he looked more lost playing blindside.. sometimes some of his pack teammates actually had to tell him where to stand in the line out.. or that he shouldn't even be there but he should be in the backs etc.
Obviously given the ball he could run straight and hard and also tackle someone but I presume he underestimated the difference between league and union and probably need at least 2 seasons or more.
I don't think he should have been anywhere near the Eng squad and after the WC he decides union isn't for him and scampers back off to Oz and league.
I'm sure he's a good honest bloke and apparently (I rarely watch RL) is (or was) one of the best RL players in the world but the transfer/plan was badly thought out (RFU.. Burgess himself... Farrell Snr?).
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"after the WC he decides union isn't for him and scampers back off to Oz and league."
Listen to the podcast and you will hear his reasoning! I wouldn't call it scampering. More like another Craig deal behind the scenes.
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I think someone bought into the idea of SB's personality and leadership making up for a lack of experience or skill.
Was there a report of SB taking a lead in the run up to one warm up game and putting a nose or two out of joint?
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If there was I would imagine it would of been as credible as a typical Sun or Mail front page headline.
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I'll never understand why he was anywhere near the WC team. For me it was pretty simple. He was a good RL player. He wasn't a very good RU player. Too many subtleties in Union for him and whilst some have made a decent go of being able to run straight and hard you generally need a bit more in Union. At the very least he needed more time.
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I'll never understand why he was anywhere near the WC team. For me it was pretty simple. He was a good RL player. He wasn't a very good RU player. Too many subtleties in Union for him and whilst some have made a decent go of being able to run straight and hard you generally need a bit more in Union. At the very least he needed more time.
Lancaster had a bit of a blind spot when it came to league players. Joel Tomkins should never have been even close to an England cap either. Burrell was at least experienced, and formed a decent partnership with Twelvetrees for a while.
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For those who have listened to the Podcast, has it changed your view of Lancaster, Farrell etc...?
Two fundamentals stood out for me for Lancaster/Farrell vs Eddie Jones:
- EJ has always spoken about encouraging players to speak up if they don't think something is right and to be open/honest with each other
- EJ commands the players respect
From what Burgess and Haskell talk about, the issue largely wasn't the coaches. It was a handful of people in the squad causing disruption.
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If there was I would imagine it would of been as credible as a typical Sun or Mail front page headline.
Well I would not have read it in those papers... I only read broadsheets, podcasts and boards....wish I could recall where I heard it. It was sourced to a player in the squad.
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I am a fan of few papers but didn’t the Mail lead on the salary cap cheating this last time?
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I am a fan of few papers but didn’t the Mail lead on the salary cap cheating this last time?
Yep.