Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Rossm on December 31, 2019, 01:06:50 AM
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Bobby Bridge reports:
Thomas Young, Lima Sopoaga, Brad Shields, James Gaskell, Will Rowlands
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-rugby-injury-updates-northampton-17490775 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-rugby-injury-updates-northampton-17490775)
Thomas Young's nose? 15 stitches? Bah, I had 21 in mine. It was split in twain :'(
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We're currently getting by with 2 Lh's and from the article it doesn't look like ZuZu will be back soon.. and who knows with Si Mac :-\
Wasn't he due to see a specialist?
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Yep and agree I think he is nearing the end unfortunately. Better news at lock though.
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From the injury news, it would be a huge bonus if Will Rowlands, James Gaskell and Brad Shields were at least possible for the next Premiership game. Would up the leader count too
Perhaps we can put a lot of 2019 behind us?
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No mention of Tibo? Is that because he's not part of the senior squad? He wasn't part of the A team squad either?
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If he's got what Lima had then he shouldn't be long.
Sent from my TA-1012 using Tapatalk
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No mention of Tibo? Is that because he's not part of the senior squad? He wasn't part of the A team squad either?
I don't think illness comes into the injury update.
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It did in Sopoaga’s case.
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I thought Tibo was initially ruled out (3 or 4 games ago) due to concussion?
Is he still suffering from that?
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I thought Tibo was initially ruled out (3 or 4 games ago) due to concussion?
Is he still suffering from that?
No concussion reported as cleared. Pick for Bristol game but fallen ill. Probably the infection rolling around the club just now.
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Would you pick Shields over Willis, Sione, Young and Nemo? Let alone Ash. I wouldn't
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Would you pick Shields over Willis, Sione, Young and Nemo? Let alone Ash. I wouldn't
Not at the moment but it would be very nice to have him fit and at least available for benching plus Jack probably going to be Eddied.
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It's hard to work out the back row pecking order, and No8 may vary depending on the opposition.
For me, it's something like
6. J.Willis, Shields, Johnson
7. Young, J.Willis, Carr
8. Carr, Vailanu, T.Willis
There's also Morris and probably some others I can't think of
It's hard to believe that Ash is 3rd choice and likely doesn't feature on the bench when all are fit
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Rossm: perhaps you just have a bigger nose than Thomas?!
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Shields was looking very good before he was injured.
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Shields was looking very good before he was injured.
Would you start him ahead of Jack Willis in a one off, must win game?
I accept there's an argument for Jack playing at 7, but I stand by selecting Jack ahead of Brad at 6
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Shields was looking very good before he was injured.
Would you start him ahead of Jack Willis in a one off, must win game?
I accept there's an argument for Jack playing at 7, but I stand by selecting Jack ahead of Brad at 6
Nope, but just pointing out that shields has been going well. Would probably pick him over Johnson.
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Shields was looking very good before he was injured.
Would you start him ahead of Jack Willis in a one off, must win game?
I accept there's an argument for Jack playing at 7, but I stand by selecting Jack ahead of Brad at 6
Nope, but just pointing out that shields has been going well. Would probably pick him over Johnson.
Agreed.
Shields got the Sopoaga treatment.
A big name SH signing must perform to 9/10 standards every game, from Day1, or they're classed as rubbish.
His performances for us have never been poor.
They also weren't stand out excellent initially, but he's been looking better every time I see him and he seems to add more to the team than just his playing ability.
Willis however is consistently very good and likely still improving.
I feel like I'd rather have Ash on the bench over Brad.
Brad feels like a player that should play from the start, rather than being an impact player from the bench
(I accept that a bench player may come on after 1 minute as well as after 60)
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Think with our second row options being tight, Shields return puts less pressure on Gaskell to play if he’s not 100% and come back a little more gradually than in the past, especially with a big period of 6N games without Launch.
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I'm not sure Launch is making the 6n squad. The cheats remain first choice with some others being given the chance of a support role i feel.
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Shields should be captain on-pitch.
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I’m a big fan of Shields. Would also like him to be skipper.
6. Shields
7. J.Willis
8. Carr
With TT’s tackle stats and launch in the row, if we get the props carrying more, that back row would be excellent.
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Stat from OptaJonny: Of the 169 players to make 500+ tackles in premrugby in the last decade Tommy Taylor
recorded the best tackle success rate, missing just 29 of his 900 attempted hits (97%). Truly amazing.
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I’m a big fan of Shields. Would also like him to be skipper.
6. Shields
7. J.Willis
8. Carr
With TT’s tackle stats and launch in the row, if we get the props carrying more, that back row would be excellent.
I like that, especially with Ash to come off the bench for a bit of impact.
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Ash will always have an impact. Didn't he go to hooker to prolong his career. Having someone who can cover hooker and back row is perfect for the bench. I get the impression he would do anything for the team.
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Stat from OptaJonny: Of the 169 players to make 500+ tackles in premrugby in the last decade Tommy Taylor
recorded the best tackle success rate, missing just 29 of his 900 attempted hits (97%). Truly amazing.
These are outrageous stats. What a player! Add in his mobility and set piece, quite a contributor!
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Players like Tommy Taylor I fancy we have really missed. Massive work rate and does the hard stuff. Surprising how many players like him we have lost in recent season. Mullan was another with a big work rate. I'm pleased how our scrum is developing but I do feel the balance has been abit off due to injuries we tend to be forced to play people. I'm hoping some players returning from injury and what seems to be a strong team spirit we will see an uplift in performance due to competition for places.
Be nice to have Gaskel and Shields back. I'd like to see JDJ given some game time in Europe and Fekitoa a bit of a rest. His knee is heavily strapped. On that note was it me or did Dan Robson have no strapping on for the first time in ages.
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For me Shields is an outstanding player who should be captain. We are fantastically blessed in the back row and when all are fit it just allows us to rotate combinations. Doesn't really matter what the pecking order is and the option to keep players fresh shouldn't be underestimated (look at how it benefits Sarries).
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For me Shields is an outstanding player who should be captain. We are fantastically blessed in the back row and when all are fit it just allows us to rotate combinations. Doesn't really matter what the pecking order is and the option to keep players fresh shouldn't be underestimated (look at how it benefits Sarries).
I agree rotation is key and this is where I think we have found ourselves in a terible cycle. Players carrying knocks having to play only to be injured and so on. Let some players make a case for themselves in europe and rest those that might need it. We need competition for places.
I love our options in backrow. Allows us to play a high tempo with some dangerous fresh legs with an ability to attack rucks and out pace people.
Only thing I feel we are missing is a bit of bulk at 12. I like Gopps but just the option would allow us to switch up our play. A bit like what Quins done to us with the USA inside centre. Booj is to much the same.
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For me Shields is an outstanding player who should be captain. We are fantastically blessed in the back row and when all are fit it just allows us to rotate combinations. Doesn't really matter what the pecking order is and the option to keep players fresh shouldn't be underestimated (look at how it benefits Sarries).
I accept what you're saying and it makes total sense.
However, if you get to a must win knock out game, you need your Captain on the pitch.
If (and I accept it's debatable) he's not the best player in that position, then you have a serious quandary
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For me Shields is an outstanding player who should be captain. We are fantastically blessed in the back row and when all are fit it just allows us to rotate combinations. Doesn't really matter what the pecking order is and the option to keep players fresh shouldn't be underestimated (look at how it benefits Sarries).
Me too. Having watched a lot of games playing for the 'Canes, he really was a standout player and leader. We've not seen him at his best due to the England "interference" and lack of time off post Super Rugby. I hope we'll see some of the best once his "injury break" is over.
That said - overall - I'm hoping we can have some continuity in selection, especially in the backs, and that those SRs recover as in terms of front row and back row we have decent cover.....fingers crossed for loose head though, and with Jimmy fit and some options in the outside backs - we have the chance to kick on a little.
Still behind the sofa for the Saints game.....
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
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Only thing I feel we are missing is a bit of bulk at 12. I like Gopps but just the option would allow us to switch up our play. A bit like what Quins done to us with the USA inside centre. Booj is to much the same.
I know what you mean, but on the few ocassions I have met him Gopps always seemed to have the aura of a man carved from stone. He's not particularly big, but if we want a centre to run hard he is your man every time. It's not the size if the dog in the fight...
In fact now I come to think on it he has something intangible that very few others in the squad have. A presence almost, hard as nails without an ounce of arrogance.
Shame he has to retire eventually.
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Agree if it wasnt for his age I'd keep him forever in the shirt.
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I don't think Shields carries well enough to get us on the front foot. We've played better when having someone like Ash or Sione - or Nemo if we can get into wider channels - carrying over the gainline to give us quick ball
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Brad might not be the biggest or most destructive carrier, but he’s fantastic in defence, is a very smart ball player, is a leader and I rate his footwork so he can at least stretch defensive lines and set up space elsewhere.
Agree others are better on the gain line abrasively (Ash, Jack, Sione etc) but there is a cuteness to Brads approach that could see others - Dobby, Cruse, Nemo, TY, TT etc in a bit of space behind a defence. I know I haven’t named our out and out running players, but that lot seem to always end up in oodles of space!
He is also v experienced. There isn’t much he hasn’t faced in his career. I agree with an earlier post, we will get the best of him soon, post:
Back to back seasons (Canes to Wasps),
England commitments,
Injuries,
World Cup,
Moving half way around the world.
Genuinely think he’s the real deal.
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.
Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.
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When did Ash last play/cover hooker?
Has that experiment stopped?
If it hasn't, there's something cool about the idea of having the starting back row as Willis, Young, Carr
And the bench as Johnson, Shields and Vailanu
Johnson covering hooker
Shields covering 2nd row
Vailanu added power
That being said, it certainly detracts from having specialist replacements for 2, 4 and 5
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.
I don't necessarily disagree with your first choice backrow, but I would point out that from the 6 tries scored in those two time periods (first 20 vs quins, 2nd half bristol), Willis was on the pitch for 6, Carr for 4, Young for 3. Vailanu was on the pitch for 5 of them.
The 2nd half of against Bristol saw Young on the pitch for the 1st 10 minutes, and then replaced by Vailanu.
So again, whilst I think your first choice backrow may be mine too, I don't think picking out those time periods does anything to really back your assessment. It could be we're both very wrong looking at the facts.
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.
Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.
I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out. I thought Luke Pearce was going to penalise him. Was he lucky?
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So if we're saying Shields, Willis and Carr are our best back row combination with Smashley on the bench where does Young fit in?
Given the style of game that we showed for 20 mins v Quins and in the second half v Briz then the Willis/Young/Carr combo is best suited for it. If we get drawn into slugfests then Shields and Ash have to come into the mix. Vailanu does not yet have the all round game to nail on the 8 shirt.
Agreed, but hopeful that Sione may develop into the all round 8. He is a real physical presence and I can see him developing into a more fully capable player.
I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out. I thought Luke Pearce was going to penalise him. Was he lucky?
I saw that too definitely feel like we got away with one but probably deserved a bit of luck considering the penalty that put us behind.
Still quite young and hasn’t played a lot of prem rugby so plenty of time to build up that experience and improve as a player. His raw attributes and talent suggest that he has a chance to be a top quality player.
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I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out
I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.
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I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out
I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.
Think there was also no ruck as Pearce called not held and Jimmy got up and scrambled a few more yards. Vailanu could have been done for obstruction if he had made contact with the Bears player but as BP says that player moved away probably trying to milk the off the feet penalty at the ruck he thought was going to happen whereas if he had let Vailanu make contact it probably would have been an obstruction penalty!
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I cringed when Sione launched himself into the last ruck of the game and took someone out
I don't agree, I think the reason he ends up on the floor so quickly is that the person he was aiming at moved away and didn't actually join the ruck, therefore leaving Vailanu with no one to make contact with.
Was he lucky? Maybe as you do see these circumstances penalised but for me, he does nothing wrong.
Think there was also no ruck as Pearce called not held and Jimmy got up and scrambled a few more yards. Vailanu could have been done for obstruction if he had made contact with the Bears player but as BP says that player moved away probably trying to milk the off the feet penalty at the ruck he thought was going to happen whereas if he had let Vailanu make contact it probably would have been an obstruction penalty!
Had Vailanu not done that, and not forced the Bris player to dodge out the way quickly, it would have likely been called a tackle, and we'd have been either pinged for 2nd movement, or had a much slower ruck and less disrupted defence.
It was risky, and could have gone against us, but thankfully it didn't.