Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on October 21, 2022, 06:48:28 PM
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Bobby Bridge
@bobby_bridge
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2h
I understand Wasps are holding meetings to try & establish something to go again next season. V.little detail at this stage.
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Has Bobby mentioned whether going into administration, folding and re-emerging next year is sufficient to rid us of the injury curse that has hung around for years?
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He also said: On a personal level, I'm on annual leave for a week now, so updates will be less frequent (he says).
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He also said: On a personal level, I'm on annual leave for a week now, so updates will be less frequent (he says).
Yes deliberately left that out. He probably needs the rest.
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I wasn't being critical. I just thought it should get mentioned.
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Assuming we're allowed into the championship, and assuming some players stick around or come back, and assuming we can put a coaching team together, it'll be very interesting to see what it would take to be competitive in the championship.
Even if all those things happen, there's absolutely no guarantee that we could even cut it in the championship.
Are championship clubs typically break even financially, or are they all in debt too?
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Assuming we're allowed into the championship, and assuming some players stick around or come back, and assuming we can put a coaching team together, it'll be very interesting to see what it would take to be competitive in the championship.
Even if all those things happen, there's absolutely no guarantee that we could even cut it in the championship.
Are championship clubs typically break even financially, or are they all in debt too?
Only Ealing are fully Pro, and even then finances are tough.
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A crumb of comfort. Vaughan’s 72 hour plea to players is done so the focus must now be on next season. To be honest before this I’d even mentally written that off. If we can start in the championship in 23/24 I’ll be popping the champagne corks.
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A crumb of comfort. Vaughan’s 72 hour plea to players is done so the focus must now be on next season. To be honest before this I’d even mentally written that off. If we can start in the championship in 23/24 I’ll be popping the champagne corks.
+1
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A crumb of comfort. Vaughan’s 72 hour plea to players is done so the focus must now be on next season. To be honest before this I’d even mentally written that off. If we can start in the championship in 23/24 I’ll be popping the champagne corks.
Compared to how things are right now, that'll be a major win.
What the business model would be for future longevity and fighting to get to the premiership would be a discussion for another day.
For now, if it's possible to exist in the championship next season we look to that and look at trying to be competitive
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It would be a major triumph if that could be done.
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It would be a major triumph if that could be done.
I get the feeling that Stephen Vaughan is very passionate about amking something happen for next season.
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Yes, that is coming across. Pray God it's possible.
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A crumb of comfort. Vaughan’s 72 hour plea to players is done so the focus must now be on next season. To be honest before this I’d even mentally written that off. If we can start in the championship in 23/24 I’ll be popping the champagne corks.
Perhaps a Waitrose 1 Cava :-)
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It would be a major triumph if that could be done.
I get the feeling that Stephen Vaughan is very passionate about amking something happen for next season.
I'm assuming he doesn't have the personal finances to make it happen, so would require a money man with him.
However, at this point in time I'd be happy to call him a white knight
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
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:) Hereford would be good!!
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
If Stephen Vaughan is involved, he's been quoted as saying that this ideal solution is to play at the CBSA
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
If Stephen Vaughan is involved, he's been quoted as saying that this ideal solution is to play at the CBSA
I just can't see that as even realistic. Lower attendance, from Home and Away fans, would make it totally uneconomic. Seats at Championship games go for half or a third of what they do in the Premiership. An over 60 concession season ticket typically costs less than £15 per game. After ticket company costs, a good gate will not bring in much more than £40k-£50k. I doubt you can rent the CBSA for that, plus you surrender all food and drink sales to the CBSA owners.
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I suspect Stephen Vaughan was a high earner before being made redundant so he will be looking for employment asap. Little or no chance that a reformed Wasps club could afford him and he would want to hang around.
Very much doubt Wasps will be playing at the CBS again and because our city is not big enough to accommodate two championship clubs I suspect they will relocate again.
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
If Stephen Vaughan is involved, he's been quoted as saying that this ideal solution is to play at the CBSA
I just can't see that as even realistic. Lower attendance, from Home and Away fans, would make it totally uneconomic. Seats at Championship games go for half or a third of what they do in the Premiership. An over 60 concession season ticket typically costs less than £15 per game. After ticket company costs, a good gate will not bring in much more than £40k-£50k. I doubt you can rent the CBSA for that, plus you surrender all food and drink sales to the CBSA owners.
I completely agree. I don't see how it's at all possible (unless he knows who is planning on buying the CBS).
All I was saying is that he's said that ideally they'll be playing the if a club did exist, which suggests that he's planning on staying in the conventry area
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No matter what anyone might think of Vaughan he is the only one striking a positive note this week despite he himself being sacked. I'll take that for a week or two. Mind you it's the faint hope that destroys you.
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He’s the only one in the leadership echelon saying anything. I suppose with the CBS it depends on the vision of any new owner. If they are eyeing a prem return capacity isn’t an issue. Maybe it is known who wants the stadium and they want two tenants. Who knows? Had my letter from FRP advisory today as a creditor - makes it very real.
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No matter what anyone might think of Vaughan he is the only one striking a positive note this week despite he himself being sacked. I'll take that for a week or two. Mind you it's the faint hope that destroys you.
I don't feel that having some feint hope of Vaughan being involved in some kind of Resurrection of the club means that we're pinning blame on Derek or anyone else.
I'm still grateful to Derek that we've had this 8 year ride, even though it absolutely didn't work out the way it was planned
At the moment though the only hope / positive voice is that of Stephen Vaughan
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
If Stephen Vaughan is involved, he's been quoted as saying that this ideal solution is to play at the CBSA
I just can't see that as even realistic. Lower attendance, from Home and Away fans, would make it totally uneconomic. Seats at Championship games go for half or a third of what they do in the Premiership. An over 60 concession season ticket typically costs less than £15 per game. After ticket company costs, a good gate will not bring in much more than £40k-£50k. I doubt you can rent the CBSA for that, plus you surrender all food and drink sales to the CBSA owners.
I completely agree. I don't see how it's at all possible (unless he knows who is planning on buying the CBS).
All I was saying is that he's said that ideally they'll be playing the if a club did exist, which suggests that he's planning on staying in the conventry area
I understand that, but Coventry itself is a non-starter. It has what it needs in terms of rugby.
Wasps would need to find a soccer ground that has plenty of room, a pitch currently unconstrained by stands on at least three sides, and which would benefit from investment.
Wasps will not find a stadium that will have us at a price we can afford.
We cannot share with another rugby club.
It has to already have planning consent for use as a sports ground.
It has to be big enough for expansion.
Needs to be close enough to fast transport to London (to gain visits from the vast number of Wasps fans in London), but cheap enough that can be afforded.
It needs to be somewhere a championship/premiership club is not, but with access to schools who play rugby.
Looking at logistics alone you begin to see the problem. It was the same problem Wasps faced when having to leave High Wycombe, but they aimed too high (because of the Premiership need for a big stadium), and, like Icarus, they plunged to their death.
Wasps had the same problem trying to find a training ground, but resolved that just in time to see the team venture fail. So, now that training ground anchors any decision.
They need a ground on the transport corridor that is the Chiltern railway line and the M40 from London towards Henley in Arden. So, start circling the stations on the Chiltern line, but, for cost of land reasons, start north of Oxford. Now find M40 junctions that are close to those railway stations. Well, the railway stations to choose from are Banbury, Leamington, Warwick and Warwick Parkway. But, if you factor in the need for a local coach or walk to a ground, and a motorway junction and/or major road. You are left with Warwick Parkway and J15 of the M40, about 15 minutes drive from the EPIC centre in Henley.
The EPIC centre is not a practical medium term game day solution, but I guess at a push would do for a while.
Anyway, all I am doing is applying dispassionate logistics/distribution and financial logic to a problem, cutting through and ignoring the impractical rhetoric coming from Stephen Vaughan.
Wherever Wasps end up, it would have to be with the agreement of an existing sports club/ground.
As most of you will guess, I know my suggested area very well, having lived there for many years (decades).
There is only one site I can think of, but I have no idea who owns it, whether those two organisations that use it own it or rent it, and whether they would be open to an approach. It is Budbroke to the West of Warwick, maybe a hundred yards from new houses being built in Hampton on the Hill (which itself has Warwick Parkway to the North East and the M40 to the South).
Not a lot of choices. The women's team has already gone back down south, but what about the netball team? I guess they will end up at Warwick Uni.
Whatever, it will still need someone with money, and we will not bounce back to the Premiership. We have lost our team and coaches (not that I much lament the latter, despite how tough it will be for them and their families). I have no problem with Wasps not being in the Premiership, now or for the next few years. I think the Premiership is a broken model. there are not sufficient uber rich people around to keep it afloat.
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I’m sorry but I will be really angry if we stay in Coventry, I can’t stand the place, I will never watch wasps again in Coventry, that’s if I can every watch wasps again
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I’m sorry but I will be really angry if we stay in Coventry, I can’t stand the place, I will never watch wasps again in Coventry, that’s if I can every watch wasps again
That's kinda my way of thinking right now too.
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Great news IF true, having issues believing anything at the moment.
Also does it have to be in Coventry
If Stephen Vaughan is involved, he's been quoted as saying that this ideal solution is to play at the CBSA
I just can't see that as even realistic. Lower attendance, from Home and Away fans, would make it totally uneconomic. Seats at Championship games go for half or a third of what they do in the Premiership. An over 60 concession season ticket typically costs less than £15 per game. After ticket company costs, a good gate will not bring in much more than £40k-£50k. I doubt you can rent the CBSA for that, plus you surrender all food and drink sales to the CBSA owners.
At £40-50k per match, that would mean CCFC are paying over a million a year to rent the stadium, a number they complained about and why they ran off to Northampton, so I very much doubt that is the case. Weren't they paying something like £150k at one point?
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Just read something on Cov telegraph that says Ccfc are paying £600,000 annually to use arena . Not sure if that includes any extra games (cup etc) but sounds like a set fee. So works out at 25k to 30k a game.
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I presume the rest of the money will come from food and beverage takings.
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Just read something on Cov telegraph that says Ccfc are paying £600,000 annually to use arena . Not sure if that includes any extra games (cup etc) but sounds like a set fee. So works out at 25k to 30k a game.
Was that us being generous? Sounds low to me.
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Do we have any super wealthy fans? Feels like that’s our only way forward.
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:) Hereford would be good!!
Well MrsFW and I would bring the attendance up to at least 3!!! Though Leominster or Kington even better for us
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We might get double figures!
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Just read something on Cov telegraph that says Ccfc are paying £600,000 annually to use arena . Not sure if that includes any extra games (cup etc) but sounds like a set fee. So works out at 25k to 30k a game.
That's probably about what I would expect. I was told a few years back that when we had big attendances it was a £6k decision whether to open the South stand or not.
So as a championship club with low attendances if we only opened the West and North stand we could be looking at costs under £20k a match so that should be under £300k a season, so a couple of thousand fans would cover the stadium costs without too much issue.
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I was at the Coventry Vs Pirates game (pirates have the best chant btw). It was close to full with a good atmosphere, but that was around 2500. I expect that the capacity of the bpa is around 3000.
From what I can gather neither the fans or the owner have any ambition for premiership rugby, it's just too expensive.
Pirates chant:"Give me a P (P), give me an I (I), give me a R (Arrrrrrrrr)!.
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Call me mad, but last I heard was that London Scottish were looking to move on from the RAG. That leaves Richmond short a tenant.
Wasps could do a lot worse than setting up shop there. Yes it's the pain of being a tenant again, but realistically there is no magic empty plot that can become a rugby ground. The extra money at the RAG could help towards getting the main stand redeveloped and/or building a 2nd one.
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That sounds excellent. Like it. Must be too good to be true.
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London Scottish were looking to move and had arranged to groundshare with Esher from 2021/22 whilst it developed a ground of it's own. They changed their mind in February 2021 about moving to Esher and continue to play at the RAG in the meantime. No word on whether they still plan to move.
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Lots of talk of small stadiums etc, if Wasps do continue wherever we end up, and I personally can't see a better option than the CBS, it needs to be over 10,000 seats if we have any plans to get back in the premiership which I would assume the new owners would be targeting.
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With each passing day I’m wondering more if we need to worry about where we might play. If Bobby was correct and discussions were going on on Friday I understand it will take time and we might not hear anything but the vacuum of information is worrying. I guess on the “where” things will spark up this week when ACL go into admin and the runners and riders for the stadium start to emerge - along with an idea of whether they have Wasps as part of their plans.
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With each passing day I’m wondering more if we need to worry about where we might play. If Bobby was correct and discussions were going on on Friday I understand it will take time and we might not hear anything but the vacuum of information is worrying. I guess on the “where” things will spark up this week when ACL go into admin and the runners and riders for the stadium start to emerge - along with an idea of whether they have Wasps as part of their plans.
IIRC Stephen said that if something didn't happen by Friday that was it for this season. I also noticed that the BBC had our game against Tigers down as Cancelled rather than Postponed.
As to grounds. If anyone ambitious is coming in to rescue the club they'll want to be able to use the training facilities and that's probably also why Stephen was adamant that "Phoenix"* Wasps should play at the CBS.
*My term not Stephen's.
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London Scottish were looking to move and had arranged to groundshare with Esher from 2021/22 whilst it developed a ground of it's own. They changed their mind in February 2021 about moving to Esher and continue to play at the RAG in the meantime. No word on whether they still plan to move.
Ahhhh, bugger.
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I think we have to expect the worst now. For a while it was like so many Wasps games that were set to change one way or the other in the last few minutes of the game, but instead of a clear final whistle, the game just petered out until no one was playing.
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I’d long since written off this season. Does anyone know what/if/when the deadlines are for registering for the Champ for 23/24. Although I guess as you say IBW with a skeletal and short time contracted staff it may well be that there are no announcements at all and we just drift off into the ether without a word said about it.