Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Rossm on October 03, 2020, 11:24:30 AM
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PREMIERSHIP RUGBY CAN confirm that it is carrying out an urgent review ahead of Sunday’s final round of Gallagher Premiership Rugby matches.
Sale Sharks announced last night that they had suffered “a number of positive COVID-19 tests” this week, and we are aware there are also positive tests at other clubs.
Darren Childs, Chief Executive of Premiership Rugby said: “The health and well-being of our players and staff is our priority.
“More than 900 PCR COVID-19 screening tests were carried out on Thursday. On Friday we received the results, which was followed by a comprehensive Contact Tracing programme at our clubs, created by those positive tests.
“These results are being analysed with the help of Public Health England and the local health authorities involved. This will allow a decision to be made over the Sale Sharks v Worcester Warriors match, and any others that have been affected by positive results.
“We understand the stakes are very high this weekend but we have a responsibility to everyone involved with Premiership Rugby to ensure a methodical process is followed, and this cannot be rushed.”
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Given that squad announcements are supposed to be half an hour away this doesn't sound good at all.
Like others have said, I really hope this doesn't spoil what was looking like being a real show piece weekend.
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No Sale team yet but Warriers team up with a comment if the match goes ahead.
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No Sale team yet but Warriers team up with a comment if the match goes ahead.
Dimes still scratching around the job centre?
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Good of Worcester to put a side out.
Looked like Sale wanted worriers to pull the plug.
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No teams announced by Gloucester or Northampton either.
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bigad82 ............. Exactly what I thought yesterday.
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Scratching around on twitter sounds like there is some effort going into rescheduling the games at some point next week. Surely that can't be done, especially given it is the final weekend and semi finals are next Saturday...
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Glaws named a team.
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Scratching around on twitter sounds like there is some effort going into rescheduling the games at some point next week. Surely that can't be done, especially given it is the final weekend and semi finals are next Saturday...
With 14 days isolation, that's impossible.
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Worcester saying match has been moved to Wednesday. This is all wrong. Why can't PRL stick to their own set down rules. Even Diamond said in August that games should be forfeited.
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PRL Statement
Following the announcement yesterday that there had been a number of positive tests at Sale Sharks, as part of the League's CR COVID-19 screening programme, Premiership Rugby has made the decision under Premiership Regulation 4.1 (c) to postpone the Sale Sharks v Worcester Warriors fixture until Wednesday 7 October.
This decision has been made after consultation with Sale Sharks, Worcester Warriors and Public Health England to ensure that the health and wellbeing of all players is protected whilst protecting the integrity of the competition.
Darren Childs, Chief Executive at Premiership Rugby said: "In light of the unprecedented situation facing Premiership Rugby we have been forced to postpone the match.
"Our priority is the health and well-being of everyone involved, and we won't compromise this. But as this match has such a critical bearing on deciding the Gallagher Premiership Rugby champions, we wanted to do everything we could to play it.
"The team at Premiership Rugby has been working around the clock to come up with a solution and we'd like to thank Public Health England for their co-operation.
"There are still a number of health and safety hurdles to overcome before the match can be staged on Wednesday evening. The decision is subject to: -
An additional round of testing to be completed at Sale on Tuesday 6th October 2020. It is essential that tests are clear for any player taking part in the game and that PHE is satisfied with the results.
Sale Sharks and Worcester Warriors will not register any new players with the RFU prior to the rescheduled game.
An independent audit of the track and trace processes at Sale is undertaken over the next few days before the game is played.
Once these steps have been completed we will make a further announcement.
Premiership Regulation 4.1 (c) states: All matches shall be played on the dates scheduled in the published Fixture List save (i) where both clubs agree to rearrange a fixture and PRL has given its written approval or (ii) where PRL decides to rearrange a fixture. Before making any decision PRL shall notify the RFU’s Professional Rugby Director and keep the RFU’s Professional Rugby Director informed of all issues relating to or arising from the decision. Such decision shall be binding on the Clubs, PRL and the RFU
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So much for not being able to field "Covid free" 23 and awarding the game to the opposition.
It totally changes the perspective of R22. Sale will know exactly what they need to do to finish in the top 4.
Total cop out by PRL.
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Exactly >:(
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Just when you thought PRL were growing a spine
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Bloody disgrace from the castrati at PRL.
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What a load of BS. Castres have to forfeit against Leicester but Sale can postpone? What a load of rubbish.
If they treated all games the same I wouldn't be this frustrated.
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This doesn't seem right at all. It is completely against guidance from Government and not what they had agreed within their own rules. PRL are again just taking the easiest option given to them which is to do nothing.
I think in sport things should be settled on the field, however when there is a serious pandemic in place we all need to be careful and respect the safety of others.
What happens if come Wednesday Worcester have an issue? Who gets the points? Also, if Glos is definitely off and they have points it changes the complection of the game for Wuss as it becomes a dead rubber.
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What a cock up. It's clear Sale should forfeit. If they have a lot of cases they surely have to isolate 14 days. The playing field just became unlevel. More rest, sight of what's happened etc etc.
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So so wrong. Total cop out by PRL BUT what do we expect.
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Now that Sale have an advantage, in knowing what points they will need, I can imagine that the billionaire owners of Bath and Bristol will make a lot of trouble if either of them miss out because of this.
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Gloucester v Northampton is off as due to the number of Northampton players required to isolate, they only had one hooker and one tighthead available. They asked for permission to bring in players on loan so the game could go ahead but were told no.
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Donkeys awarded a 5 point victory according to Fissler on twatter. Asking how does that work.
If it is good for one match it should be for both.
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There is going to be a shitstorm about this. They have to call the Sale game off.
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Here is .jpg file of Saints Club Statement.
Single click to enlarge.
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What a load of - how can Sale play but Saints can't? What?
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This is getting quite ridiculous. Sale game should now be cancelled. It is a disgrace that Saints have to cancel and forfeit the game, yet Sale can go ahead with their game and have the considerable foreknowledge of what they must to do.
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So that puts Gloucester on 45 points (I assume a forfeited match attracts 4 points), meaning Wuss can't catch them. Sale also handed a massive advantage in the run in. Wasps have to focus on their own game now.
But...I cannot see this ending tidily.
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Absolutely ludicrous. I too cannot see this ending well.
A game that can be delayed for 2 weeks, has been cancelled, a game that has almost not time to be delayed at all, is still on.
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So that puts Gloucester on 45 points (I assume a forfeited match attracts 4 points), meaning Wuss can't catch them. Sale also handed a massive advantage in the run in. Wasps have to focus on their own game now.
But...I cannot see this ending tidily.
A forfeited match has the 'score' 20-0, being 4 tries, thus Glaws get 5 points.
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Ah thanks, so puts them on 46 points.
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AFAIK: Sale have not yet announced their team for a game that was originally scheduled to be played tomorrow, yet Wuss have announced their team.
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PRL have lost the plot. Same issue with both matches. Why totally opposite outcomes.
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PRL have lost the plot. Same issue with both matches. Why totally opposite outcomes.
This
Either there is one rule or there are no rules.......
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Now, if the hundreds of thousands of regular PRL fans would just tweet to the PRL just what a cheating crock of sh*t this is, as I have just done, then maybe the old farts will actually wake up and smell the rot that has set in. An organisation that is not fit for purpose.
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Sale blaming Worcester that the game can't be played tomorrow apparently.
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So have Glos been given a 20 - 0 win and 5 pts?
Just read that they have. So that means R22 is a dead rubber for Wuss now.
Hopefully this gets the team into the right head space for tomorrow knowing that they still need to win and that a win could well earn the home semi...
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PRL are absolutely barking. What a load of sheisters. Our cat could make a better decision and she's dead.
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Now, if the hundreds of thousands of regular PRL fans would just tweet to the PRL just what a cheating crock of sh*t this is, as I have just done, then maybe the old farts will actually wake up and smell the rot that has set in. An organisation that is not fit for purpose.
Do you have an email address / name to use?
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PRL have lost the plot. Same issue with both matches. Why totally opposite outcomes.
Sale apparently can still field a team without any new squad additions, Saints can't. Sale game seemingly delayed by Warriors understandable reticence to play without further checks in place.
Better precedent for comparison would be Casters in euro game, 3 positive tests who werent even in travelling squad but game forfeited to Tigers.
Maybe this was the last part of Sale compensation to Glaws for poaching Van Rensburg!
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Or maybe the PRL officer making the decision used to place prop to Diamond's hooker. Just maybe.
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Probably safe to assume the Sale game will be cancelled if results tomorrow end up making it a dead rubber. In other words, PRL is hoping to dodge taking a tough decision! They certainly have form in this area.
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As I understood it Sale claimed they were in a position to play tomorrow.
They should, therefore, name their team tomorrow, and stick to it in that case, and none of the team who played last week should be allowed to play next Wednesday.
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With Sale had 16 cases on Thursday I find it hard to believe they'll be clear by Tuesday, unless they were false positives. Its well known that the PCR test is being done to such a sensitivity that it picking dead virus who were symptom clear for 30+ days.
If they have a playing squad that was tested OK on Thursday and they are isolating and have been since before Thursday then perhaps they could all test positive. But that shouldn't be the point.
If the game goes ahead and Sale go through there's going to and awful, lingering, smell around for a long time.
I guess Bath and Bristol are already in the process of lawyering up.
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I do feel sorry for Wuss, they had a real chance of getting into the top 8, that opportunity is now gone and they have little recourse, as they asked for the delay. Wuss probably thought the playing field would be level, and that judgement is now going to cost them dear.
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I think in a world where supporters aren't even allowed into a stadium despite the ability to clearly and easily distance, the fact that a team where 16 people have tested positive will be allowed to play is hypocrisy of the highest order.
Just like Cummins, Corbyn and others it is one rule for the populace, and a different one for the decision makers.
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Telegraph now reporting that the Sale squad went out drinking until the early hours after the Premiership Cup final. The article is behind the paywall though so I can only see the headlines.
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Telegraph now reporting that the Sale squad went out drinking until the early hours after the Premiership Cup final. The article is behind the paywall though so I can only see the headlines.
This confirms what was rumoured on twatter yesterday. Also rumoured is that they knew they had some infection before their last match but hid the fact.
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Telegraph now reporting that the Sale squad went out drinking until the early hours after the Premiership Cup final. The article is behind the paywall though so I can only see the headlines.
This confirms what was rumoured on twatter yesterday. Also rumoured is that they knew they had some infection before their last match but hid the fact.
If "they" means the club management and it turns out to be true they should be joining Sarries in the drop.
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Telegraph now reporting that the Sale squad went out drinking until the early hours after the Premiership Cup final. The article is behind the paywall though so I can only see the headlines.
This confirms what was rumoured on twatter yesterday. Also rumoured is that they knew they had some infection before their last match but hid the fact.
If true this becomes far more than just a rugby issue...
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I know this might sound strange, but I am more annoyed by this than I was when I found out about Saracens cheating th e salary cap.
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I know this might sound strange, but I am more annoyed by this than I was when I found out about Saracens cheating th e salary cap.
That's because everyone knew Saracens were cheating for a long long time...
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This won't end here. Someone is going to finish outside the top 4. I'm thinking Sale only need to have 9 or 10 established players to beat a Wuss team with nought to play for. So it's going to be us, Bath or Bristol. Whoever it is ought to play merry hell. After all, if rules can be bent over once what's to stop them being bent again. Which is exactly the problem the authorities have now created.
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This won't end here. Someone is going to finish outside the top 4. I'm thinking Sale only need to have 9 or 10 established players to beat a Wuss team with nought to play for. So it's going to be us, Bath or Bristol. Whoever it is ought to play merry hell. After all, if rules can be bent over once what's to stop them being bent again. Which is exactly the problem the authorities have now created.
If Wuss and Sale draw, then they may not be any comlaints if Sale still come 5th. Other than that, I can see arguments coming from everywhere.
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As I understood it Sale claimed they were in a position to play tomorrow.
They should, therefore, name their team tomorrow, and stick to it in that case, and none of the team who played last week should be allowed to play next Wednesday.
In my view it should be taken out of PRL's hands (as they seem unwilling to make a decision). To have that many numbers within a very small working environment would normally flag up major questions.
I don't have children but what's the average size of a primary school.. ? Would it be 3 times bigger (staff and pupils) than a prem rugby club?
What if a primary school went down with 50 cases.. children and staff (players and coaches). Wouldn't someone be asking questions as to how.. why.. then start tracking back.. who's been where.. have some of the pupils been (players) been outside of bubbles that they shouldn't have been in.
It has happend in other sports.. Sergio Perez missed 2 F1 GP races.. Jorge Martin in Moto 2 GP.. but to have half your squad.. did they all go to vegas for a week-end or something? Maybe there was a big BBQ in Joberg? Perhaps they all took a guided tour of the Manchester ship canal curious about the industrial heritage?
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The story in the Telegraph is about the fact that they had 'a couple of beers' at their Carrington training ground after the final. Not quite as sensational as the headline implies.
Whether they knew of any cases however if another matter.
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Sale is dragging rugby union into disrepute. Their 'Management' is on an equal with Sarries. It just gets worse. How many people have they put at risk?
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Telegraph
Sale Sharks players went drinking into the early hours after winning the Premiership Cup Final, just 10 days before the the club returned 16 positive tests that has thrown the Premiership finale into chaos.
Premiership Rugby is facing a furious backlash after postponing Sale Sharks’ crucial final-round fixture against Worcester Warriors to Wednesday. Northampton Saints, meanwhile, have been forced to call off their match against Gloucester after several players were forced to self-isolate having come into contact with infected Sale players in their game on Tuesday night. Mark Darbon, the Northampton chief executive, described his “deep frustration” and “extreme disappointment” at forfeiting the match 20-0 because of Sale’s outbreak.
Sale’s squad are understood to have had drinks at the club’s Carrington training ground after beating Harlequins 27-19 on September 21. The club confirmed that the players had “a couple of beers” but strongly deny that this was the source of the outbreak.
Despite their absentees, The Sunday Telegraph understands that Sale could have fielded a competitive XV against Worcester Warriors, albeit with a prop playing on the wrong side of the scrum and their front-row replacements consisting of academy players. However, the game was pushed back to Wednesday after both Worcester Warriors and Public Health England expressed safety concerns.
The remaining members of Sale’s squad will be retested on Tuesday and Public Health England must also give the green light for the game to go ahead. Sale will not be allowed to register any new players while the RFU will conduct an audit of Sale’s track-and-trace system to establish how such a large outbreak occurred. If Sale cannot fulfil the match then they will also forfeit it 20-0.
Either way, the staging of the match will have significant implications on the play-off race. Sale currently occupy fourth place on 64 points, leading Bristol on points difference, with Wasps and Bath on 66 and 65 points respectively. Apart from Northampton, other clubs have maintained a public silence so far but several are understood to be privately furious that Sale’s match has been moved.
Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 latest standings
Gallagher Premiership
Team P W D L -/+ BP Pts
1 Exeter 21 15 0 6 228 14 74
2 Wasps 21 13 0 8 124 14 66
3 Bath 21 14 0 7 63 9 65
4 Sale 21 13 0 8 191 12 64
5 Bristol 21 13 1 7 75 10 64
6 Harlequins 21 9 1 11 -49 8 46
7 Gloucester 22 8 0 14 2 14 46
8 Northampton 22 8 0 14 -109 10 42
9 Worcester 21 7 0 14 -200 9 37
10 London Irish 21 6 1 14 -218 8 34
11 Leicester 21 6 1 14 -229 2 28
12 Saracens 21 13 0 8 122 13 -40
When the Premiership resumed post-lockdown on August 14, all clubs signed up to an agreement that they would be forced to forfeit a match if they suffered a significant number of positive Covid tests. In France, Castres were forced to cancel their Challenge Cup quarter-final against Leicester after four positive tests.
“They’re moving the goalposts,” one club source said. “It is making a mockery of the sport at a time when we are telling the Government that it is safe to open the stadiums but we’re going to put on a game where there has been a massive Covid-19.”
There are also legitimate concerns that the integrity of the Premiership will be at stake as Sale will have a distinct advantage in knowing what result they have to achieve to qualify for the play-offs. Should Sale qualify at another team’s expense, then there could be legal implications.
Premiership Rugby has confirmed it will not move the dates of the play-offs which will take place next weekend. That means that clubs will not necessarily know their opponents or venue until Wednesday night while Sale, should they qualify, could face a three-day turnaround.
Darren Childs, chief executive at Premiership Rugby, said: “In light of the unprecedented situation facing Premiership Rugby we have been forced to postpone the match.
“Our priority is the health and well-being of everyone involved, and we won't compromise this. But as this match has such a critical bearing on deciding the Gallagher Premiership Rugby champions, we wanted to do everything we could to play it.”
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The story in the Telegraph is about the fact that they had 'a couple of beers' at their Carrington training ground after the final. Not quite as sensational as the headline implies.
Whether they knew of any cases however if another matter.
That's good to know as it was starting to boil my bladder. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if people in government were considering whether rugby is fit to continue.
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I've no faith in the PRL to conduct the investigations and/or follow them through with any sort of clarity or conviction, however the test results become a fairly mute point if there is deemed to have been poor practice by Sale and that I would assume should incur a points penalty given the severity.
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Can't fathom why this game is being treated any differently to any other. Child's says "... this match has such a critical bearing on deciding the Gallagher Premiership Rugby champions.", but in reality the 5 potential points in the final round are no less significant than points gained in rounds 1-21.
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I presume Sale never named a squad for today for the simple reason in that they were unable to field 23 players who were not only covid free but not required to isolate for being in contact to the 16 players/staff that were tested positive.
This being the case how is giving them 3 days extra before playing going to change anything?
I think Sale's end game is convincing everyone they have a match day squad but relying on Worcester who have nothing to play for say "nah" we forfeit as it's just not worth the risk of our players being infected handing Sale the 20-0 win.
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I think Sale's end game is convincing everyone they have a match day squad but relying on Worcester who have nothing to play for say "nah" we forfeit as it's just not worth the risk of our players being infected handing Sale the 20-0 win.
This is PRECISELY what Sale are up to. And Worcester should call their bluff.
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https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1312750174511529984
Pat Lam saying it's 19 at sale that tested positive, 16 are players, 3 are backroom staff. He's very diplomatic, but clearly doesn't feel sorry for them at all, and seems rather peeved.
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I think Sale's end game is convincing everyone they have a match day squad but relying on Worcester who have nothing to play for say "nah" we forfeit as it's just not worth the risk of our players being infected handing Sale the 20-0 win.
This is PRECISELY what Sale are up to. And Worcester should call their bluff.
I can't believe PRL/ Worcester didn't demand that their possible team be listed.
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
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The potential knock on effect is that the semi final sale could potentially play in will have to be on a Sunday. As things stand that looks like 1 v 4 or Exeter v Bristol or Sale.
Given Sale are due to play on Wednesday, it'll have to be a Sunday game, which means Bristol have a Sunday to Friday turn around ahead of the Challenge Cup final and will lose a day traveling to France. You can understand why Pat Lam is fuming. I would be too.
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
Pooled testing would be a way to reduce testing costs.
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
Pooled testing would be a way to reduce testing costs.
What do you mean? How would it be pooled?
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
Pooled testing would be a way to reduce testing costs.
What do you mean? How would it be pooled?
Mixing samples so you need to do fewer lab analysis. Explained quite nicely by the More or Less team.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08rwy4n
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
Pooled testing would be a way to reduce testing costs.
What do you mean? How would it be pooled?
Mixing samples so you need to do fewer lab analysis. Explained quite nicely by the More or Less team.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08rwy4n
Ah,OK. So testing a whole team at once (in a single batch, or maybe 3/4 groupsetc), then if you get positive, you go to individual testing. Could work well, yeah.
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Ok so things have moved on. Unless I'm mistaken if Sale do manipulate their way to a bonus point win over Wuss then they play us next Sunday.
I guess from our point of view playing a virus stricken Sale over a confident Brizzle would be a advantage.
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I guess from our point of view playing a virus stricken Sale over a confident Brizzle would be a advantage.
With the risk (highly probable) that whatever 23 Sale would bring to that match would also contain a high number of players with Covid but who tested negative. That would not be a good outcome for Wasps.
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Rob Baxter said it cost £30k/month for testing. Financially unsustainable.
Less sustainable that not playing at all, and receiving no TV monies?
Pooled testing would be a way to reduce testing costs.
What do you mean? How would it be pooled?
Mixing samples so you need to do fewer lab analysis. Explained quite nicely by the More or Less team.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08rwy4n
Ah,OK. So testing a whole team at once (in a single batch, or maybe 3/4 groupsetc), then if you get positive, you go to individual testing. Could work well, yeah.
Yep, that's the nub of it but there's ways of mixing the samples such that you can pinpoint individuals when testing large organisations.
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PRL man on BT with a Sale team photo behind him - when he played for them maybe?
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Yep something like 100 caps isn't it... sticks in the craw a bit doesn't it.
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If Sale have 16 players with positive tests, how can any of their squad not be isolating due to contact tracing? Surely any players who played in the Saints game must be contacts of infected players (as Saints players from the game are), while in training etc through the week there must be further contact throughout the squad. I simply don't see how Sale can have 23 players not isolating.
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I was willing the BT panel to ask the PRL guy have Sale submitted a playing squad of 23 who are fit and not law bound to self isolate. As far as I can see they haven't made their team for Worcester public.
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If Sale have 16 players with positive tests, how can any of their squad not be isolating due to contact tracing? Surely any players who played in the Saints game must be contacts of infected players (as Saints players from the game are), while in training etc through the week there must be further contact throughout the squad. I simply don't see how Sale can have 23 players not isolating.
19 according to BT now
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Not sure how Sale could be in a position to fulfill the fixture if Public Health England wouldn't give them the go-ahead myself.
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My take-away from listening to the PRL guy and Dimes is that they ended up in a situation that they hadn't planned for and had no choice but to postpone. I guess the lawyers were heavily involved.
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Wouldn't subsequent negative tests negate the need for isolating?
I.e. if Sale have 23 players who have tested negative, and continue to test negative then do they legally still need to isolate?
The public at large need to isolate because we typically can't get tested when required
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From. the gov.uk website:
Self-isolate for at least 10 days
You must self-isolate for at least 10 days if:
- you have symptoms of coronavirus and you tested positive, had an unclear result or did not have a test
- you tested positive but have not had symptoms
If you have symptoms, the 10 days starts from when they started.
If you have not had symptoms, the 10 days starts from when you had the test. But if you get symptoms after your test, self-isolate for a further 10 days from when your symptoms start.
Stop self-isolating after 10 days if you feel OK
You can stop self-isolating after 10 days if either:
- you do not have any symptoms
- you just have a cough or changes to your sense of smell or taste – these can last for weeks after the infection has gone
Keep self-isolating if you feel unwell
Keep self-isolating if you have any of these symptoms after 10 days:
- a high temperature or feeling hot and shivery
- a runny nose or sneezing
feeling or being sick
- diarrhoea
Only stop self-isolating when these symptoms have gone.
If you have diarrhoea or you’re being sick, stay at home until 48 hours after they've stopped.
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Wouldn't subsequent negative tests negate the need for isolating?
I.e. if Sale have 23 players who have tested negative, and continue to test negative then do they legally still need to isolate?
The public at large need to isolate because we typically can't get tested when required
That's not how I understand it. It can sometimes take several days for an infected person to test positive so even following a negative test the protocol requires that someone exposed to an infected person still needs to self isolate. The only way I can see out of this is if all of the 19 positives retest as negative meaning the entire squad was actually clear which is highly unlikely since aparently the test is skewed to minimise false positives.
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Wouldn't subsequent negative tests negate the need for isolating?
I.e. if Sale have 23 players who have tested negative, and continue to test negative then do they legally still need to isolate?
The public at large need to isolate because we typically can't get tested when required
That's not how I understand it. It can sometimes take several days for an infected person to test positive so even following a negative test the protocol requires they still need to self isolate. The only way I can see out of this is if all of the 19 positives retest as negative which is highly unlikely since aparently the test is skewed to minimise false positives.
Public Health England say it can take up to 14 days to get a positive test after you contract it. Which is why a negative test is not so valuable. You then have to isolate for 14 days after contact with someone who subsequently tests positive, if your contact with them was in the 14 days preceding their positive test. Thus, for the 16 players and 3 staff who have tested positive, anyone who has come into contact with them in the preceding 14 days must self quarantine for 14 days, even if, during that 14 days, they test negative.
It looks like Sale, and maybe PHE are fudging that last bit. Nothing would surprise me. A very murky business this. This situation requires someone with backbone at one or both PRL and PHE to say, 'All you lot are in quarantine.' It requires a free press with backbone to stand up and hound them. Where is the Daily Mail when you need them? It would appear Sale are not willing to comply. There have been whispers that some of the team that played last Wednesday had symptoms, but didn't self-isolate and instead played. When the dust has settled, Bloodgate will have nothing on this.
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PRL man on BT with a Sale team photo behind him - when he played for them maybe?
Seemed extraordinary that BT Sport panel didn't mention PRL Rugby Director Phil Winstanley's personal links to Sale -- not just 100 caps, but was also Operations Director there.
Thought Diamond looked really shifty on the call, too (and v subdued by his standards), possibly even ill himself.
I feel sorry for Sale, as would be desolate if this had happened to Wasps, but there is no way they should have been able to get away with this.
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My take-away from listening to the PRL guy and Dimes is that they ended up in a situation that they hadn't planned for and had no choice but to postpone. I guess the lawyers were heavily involved.
But they had planned for it - a club unable to field a team forfeits 20-0. To which clubs agreed.
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I can imagine Bruce Craig being on the phone to his lawyers right about now.
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The obvious question for me is if Sale had 23 players negative and ready to go why was it postponed. Either they could fulfil the fixture or not? Still, leaves them definitely without those who tested positive, possibly without more positive tests and facing 2 games in 5 days. Personally I'll take a Sale BP win which would leave us facing a tired and depleted team in the semi.
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The obvious question for me is if Sale had 23 players negative and ready to go why was it postponed. Either they could fulfil the fixture or not? Still, leaves them definitely without those who tested positive, possibly without more positive tests and facing 2 games in 5 days. Personally I'll take a Sale BP win which would leave us facing a tired and depleted team in the semi.
Unlike Warriors, Sale never announced their 23 for today and still haven't. Suspicious.
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Surely govt/local auth/PHE guidelines (dare I say it laws. . I can't keep up) usurp anything that has been agreed by PRL and the clubs.
Pat Lam actually gave us a hint of how much work it takes to keep his squad at a manageable minimal risk. I presume that requires players and whoever they live with to be in a very tight bubble.. then you have the club bubble. I'm guessing the bubble that the players and coaches are livinh in to try and get the season finished affects what their partners can or can't do as well.
He implied that perhaps getting 1 case every few weeks in one club.. or indeed over the whole premiership is to be expected.. but to get 19 in one small organisation... in 1 week... he honestly looked gobsmacked. I'm sure all players.. all coaches.. all staff know its their jobs on the line if they break protocols
Something has gone badly wrong at Sale. Could one person within the squad breaking their bubble create such a knock on effect?
If it was a pig processing plant.. PHE would be all over it like a rash (rashers). I can't understand why Sale haven't immediately been locked down until the source has been found
Taking new tests on Tuesday isn't going to help as the guideline incubation period might be 10 - 14 days.
Maybe the Sale squad all went on a group long drive to a castle to test their eyesight.. if so, they are all in the clear.
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He implied that perhaps getting 1 case every few weeks in one club.. or indeed over the whole premiership is to be expected.. but to get 19 in one small organisation... in 1 week... he honestly looked gobsmacked. I'm sure all players.. all coaches.. all staff know its their jobs on the line if they break protocols
Dimes said they got a bunch of results back and that they were all -ve. They then got a correction that one of them was +ve. That person will have been acting, and treated, as if they'd been -ve.
In those circumstances its easy to see how the infection could spread quickly amongst a tight knot group who are training together.
We need to be very careful with pointing fingers because this disease is still largely novel and we we should apply Occam's Razor as we might come a cropper in some unexpected way.
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The RFU have now launched an investigation into Sale. I'm struggling to see how Wednesday's game can go ahead. Still too many unanswered questions for me, and if I was Worcester I'd not be at all comfortable with it going ahead. There is every chance that the new round of testing this week will identify further cases as my understanding is that an infected person may still return a negative result for a number of days after infection. As Dimes admitted during yesterday's interview, 3 or 4 more cases and that's game over for them.
What Sale seem to be angling for is that they put out a legitimate match day squad for Wednesday (wouldn't even have to be 23 as long as all front row positions are covered from the bench I think), just as they claim to have done for yesterday (although no-one saw that squad named). Worcester, with nothing left to play for, cry off, meaning Sale are awarded the 5 points and a place in the playoffs without even playing. That would put them up against Wasps next weekend. If Wasps were to do the same as Wuss and put the squad's health ahead of all other factors (as I would expect) then Sale could conceivably get themselves a bye to the final!
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The RFU have now launched an investigation into Sale. I'm struggling to see how Wednesday's game can go ahead. Still too many unanswered questions for me, and if I was Worcester I'd not be at all comfortable with it going ahead. There is every chance that the new round of testing this week will identify further cases as my understanding is that an infected person may still return a negative result for a number of days after infection. As Dimes admitted during yesterday's interview, 3 or 4 more cases and that's game over for them.
What Sale seem to be angling for is that they put out a legitimate match day squad for Wednesday (wouldn't even have to be 23 as long as all front row positions are covered from the bench I think), just as they claim to have done for yesterday (although no-one saw that squad named). Worcester, with nothing left to play for, cry off, meaning Sale are awarded the 5 points and a place in the playoffs without even playing. That would put them up against Wasps next weekend. If Wasps were to do the same as Wuss and put the squad's health ahead of all other factors (as I would expect) then Sale could conceivably get themselves a bye to the final!
That is precisely what they intend. And it is why the original rule was brought in meaning they should have been required to forfeit the game on Sunday. Not only that, but, as the RFU now suspect, some players had shown symptoms before the game on Wednesday. Thus, they intentionally placed the Saints players and officials at risk. This whole thing stinks. It is time the Police got involved for the breaches of Covid rules. Why are people like this so stupid, and why did the PRL take the wrong decision on Friday? It should have been a no-brainer. Something truly stinks at Sale and the PRL.
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Not only that, but, as the RFU now suspect, some players had shown symptoms before the game on Wednesday. Thus, they intentionally placed the Saints players and officials at risk.
Crikey... has this definitely been confirmed?
Dimes certainly looked shifty, yesterday, and both his and PRL interviews on BT Sport felt scripted and contrived.
Something rarely mentioned, but for me very concerning, is lung scarring and damage from COVID-19. Does this fully clear up and after how long? I know people still breathless months later (and not old layabouts like me). Could be v bad news for players... French clubs seem to be taking seriously, in terms of extended recovery (heard raised for one of the Paris clubs, I think).
Saints and maybe other clubs could and arguably should sue Sale if player welfare and livelihoods wilfully put at risk.
Perhaps critically, Diamond said Sale had a reversed test result for one player -- wondering if related to latest national testing snafu?
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Not only that, but, as the RFU now suspect, some players had shown symptoms before the game on Wednesday. Thus, they intentionally placed the Saints players and officials at risk.
Crikey... has this definitely been confirmed?
Dimes certainly looked shifty, yesterday, and both his and PRL interviews on BT Sport felt scripted and contrived.
Something rarely mentioned, but for me very concerning, is lung scarring and damage from COVID-19. Does this fully clear up and after how long? I know people still breathless months later (and not old layabouts like me). Could be v bad news for players... French clubs seem to be taking seriously, in terms of extended recovery (heard raised for one of the Paris clubs, I think).
Saints and maybe other clubs could and arguably should sue Sale if player welfare and livelihoods wilfully put at risk.
Certainly not confirmed, but rumoured, and potentially the reason the RFU now want to know more.
I agree about the 2 interviews. Both very much sticking to script. Saints not impressed with PRL rep stating that they had allowed extra players to be brought in. Saints had already issued a statement saying otherwise and have reiterated that following the interview.
Dimes response to the question about the team possibly going out on the lash after the Prem Cup final said it all really. Very abrupt denial, and unfortunately not pressed on what they did do (if anything) to celebrate. Think they were a bit scared to press the point to be honest. Ugo Monye is certainly no Jeremy Paxman! :) And in fairness to Monye, neither Doyle or Lol followed that one up either.
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"Something rarely mentioned, but for me very concerning, is lung scarring and damage from COVID-19. Does this fully clear up and after how long? I know people still breathless months later (and not old layabouts like me)."
Lung damage - scarring, pulmonary emboli and micro-emboli are the main problems. The scarring may well be more to do with ventilators and early treatment strategies. Overall you have to be severely affected to get this - high risk, profoundly hypoxic etc. Not many young athletes will have this level of disease.
Breathlessness is very interesting. I still have it and my scans show my lungs are fully recovered and my lung function tests are normal. The other causes are cardiac including myocarditis [common in covid but not usually severe], and CNS effects. I am now intolerant to heat and I start panting like a spaniel if I go into a warm room. If I have the air-con set to 19ºC I am fine. There may be some regulatory changes caused by the virus getting into the CNS [central nervous system = brain and spinal cord].
This is not me browsing the journals: it is from the Prof of Respiratory Medicine at Imperial College who is running post-covid clinics.
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Dimes was very obviously reading from a prepared paper in front of him.
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I think that DGP has got it spot on about Sale and Diamond. It was obvious as far back as Friday and beyond what the Master Plan was, and if I can work it out then anyone can.
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"Something rarely mentioned, but for me very concerning, is lung scarring and damage from COVID-19. Does this fully clear up and after how long? I know people still breathless months later (and not old layabouts like me)."
Lung damage - scarring, pulmonary emboli and micro-emboli are the main problems. The scarring may well be more to do with ventilators and early treatment strategies. Overall you have to be severely affected to get this - high risk, profoundly hypoxic etc. Not many young athletes will have this level of disease.
Breathlessness is very interesting. I still have it and my scans show my lungs are fully recovered and my lung function tests are normal. The other causes are cardiac including myocarditis [common in covid but not usually severe], and CNS effects. I am now intolerant to heat and I start panting like a spaniel if I go into a warm room. If I have the air-con set to 19ºC I am fine. There may be some regulatory changes caused by the virus getting into the CNS [central nervous system = brain and spinal cord].
This is not me browsing the journals: it is from the Prof of Respiratory Medicine at Imperial College who is running post-covid clinics.
Very interesting, much of that new to me (you don't also moonlight as MD in Private Eye!?), and only half-reassuring. V much hope your side sorts itself out in time. Thx
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This was on BBC News (TV - News 24 channel) I think.
It seemed to suggest that the other clubs had made a formal complaint, forcing the PRL to investigate. I get the feeling this isn't going to go well for Sharks.
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New statement from Sharks:
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/sale-statement-club-could-forfeit-worcester-game-hit-out-at-allegations-in-the-media/
Essentially, if they get one more case, the game will be off and awarded to Worcester.
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Damage limitation
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Worcester not happy -
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/05/worcester-warriors-sale-sharks-covid-19-premiership-postponed-match-play-offs
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Worcester not happy -
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/05/worcester-warriors-sale-sharks-covid-19-premiership-postponed-match-play-offs
Just saw the same.
I'd be surprised if only Worcs would be considering legal action.......if I was very rich and Bath's owner...I'd not be amused either.
Reading the story - it's as if everyone involved is hoping Worcs default......
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What a bloody mess.
So Sale have held an internal investigation.
That's good of them.
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What a bloody mess.
So Sale have held an internal investigation.
That's good of them.
Week to late.
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An internal investigation will identify what they need to hide - sorry - explain to an independent one.
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Are Sale trying to fill the vacancy left by Sarries???
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Are Sale trying to fill the vacancy left by Sarries???
I would relegate both of them.
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PRL carried out 972 tests last week, which works out at 81 per club on average. 19 out of 81 is 23.5%, although the percentage at Sale is probably higher given their smaller squad size.
I don't know about anyone else, but if 23.5% of people employed by my company tested positive for Covid, everyone else would be isolating as well.
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I'd imagine we should have answers by 12pm tomorrow about whether the game's going ahead surely? Would be when Sale would be expected to name their side.
Anything is possible and nothing is certain it would seem though.
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I think my main problem with this is that it seems that Sale are self certificating their ability and the safeness to play for both teams... That is not what should be happening.
Ultimately they are either victims of extremely bad luck with the false negative diagnosis, or extreme stupidity following a rumoured party following the cup win. Either way, infections within the club have jumped from 1 to 19 and that is out of control. They will be bringing players in who won't necessarily have been part of any sort of playing bubble and there is no way you could sign off them being able to safely put a team out.
It is either unfortunate or stupid but either way both tomorrow's and this weekends game is out of the question.
Quick question; after being in contact with someone who receives a positive test, how long is isolation? Given the Saints game was Weds 30th Sept, Sunday would tick over to the 11th day wouldn't it (presuming the period is 10 days).
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I think my main problem with this is that it seems that Sale are self certificating their ability and the safeness to play for both teams... That is not what should be happening.
Ultimately they are either victims of extremely bad luck with the false negative diagnosis, or extreme stupidity following a rumoured party following the cup win. Either way, infections within the club have jumped from 1 to 19 and that is out of control. They will be bringing players in who won't necessarily have been part of any sort of playing bubble and there is no way you could sign off them being able to safely put a team out.
It is either unfortunate or stupid but either way both tomorrow's and this weekends game is out of the question.
Quick question; after being in contact with someone who receives a positive test, how long is isolation? Given the Saints game was Weds 30th Sept, Sunday would tick over to the 11th day wouldn't it (presuming the period is 10 days).
14 days
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Cheers Nelly.
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I am disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the way supporters on here & other forums have jumped in without know whats actually happened.
Not only jumping in but forming a lynch mob! I don't overly like Diamond from what I've seen of him, but until I know he's guilty, I won't be involved in hanging him!
Were Sale the victim of a testing mistake or did they all go out on the p1ss?
We don't actually know, so until we do, I'm not going to speculate because it could very easily be Wasps having a false positive or a player(s) doing something stupid.
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I too would not like to castigate Dimes or Sale until a reason for the outbreak can be pinpointed, but I still can not believe that they could raise a 23 from their squad that is sure to be clear of virus only a week later!
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That is kind of where I am coming from BaldPaul. Sale are victim of either bad luck with testing or facing consequences of not social distancing. Either way 1 false positive has very quickly ballooned to 19 positive and there is an 11 day incubation period so that could swell even further.
With that knowledge on Friday/Saturday how could anyone honestly say that the situation was under control and that it was/is safe to continue.
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Aren't these two separate issues - can / should Sale play tomorrow (and Saturday / Sunday) for the safety of players, officials and staff and then why are Sale in this situation?
On the first, I can't see how Sale have enough players who shouldn't be self isolating (surely training results in the whole squad being impacted). Any other outcome would be seen as a fudge at best.
On the second...lets wait and see what comes out.
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The party rumours have been doing the rounds for a while. Surely by now photos would have emerged of them out on the lash if that had actually happened.
Ultimately though, whether through misfortune as a result of the reported false negative, or stupidity in failing to observe the regulations on social distancing etc, the risks to the rest of the Sale squad, to the Worcester squad tomorrow evening and then potentially to either Wasps or Exeter on Saturday remain the same and the game should not be played. If the false negative story proves to be true (and it would be senseless to make up something that would be all too easy to prove/disprove), then my sympathy to Sale and their fans that this will cost them a playoff place. However, Sale's playoff place should not be a higher priority than the well-being of their wider squad and that of their opponents.
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I am disappointed, but not overly surprised, at the way supporters on here & other forums have jumped in without know whats actually happened.
Not only jumping in but forming a lynch mob! I don't overly like Diamond from what I've seen of him, but until I know he's guilty, I won't be involved in hanging him!
Were Sale the victim of a testing mistake or did they all go out on the p1ss?
We don't actually know, so until we do, I'm not going to speculate because it could very easily be Wasps having a false positive or a player(s) doing something stupid.
Paul, I certainly agree (and posted as such). I would hope that the same would be afforded to any other club in a similar situation (in particular a title contender or a club facing relegation) - after all this is due to a global pandemic not a club-related issue.
I think PRL must take the biggest responsibility here due to the inadequate communications and lack of transparency to date. When the latter is in short supply, rumours and hearsay are king - heck Pat Lam and Alan Solomons have been quoting rumours and Saints have in no uncertain terms refuted PRL’s statements - all this clearly shows the state of anger & confusion due to the lack of transparency and clarity.
I’m probably in the minority but I have no issue with the Sale game being postponed if there were absolute exceptional reasons (e.g false negatives as mentioned) but the back paddling and contradictory statements have only made it worse. The fact that clubs have resorted to publicly arguing their case (some times contradicting one another) is actually a reflection of PRL’s poor handling. Yes these are exceptional times but clear and open communications would of eased a lot of the anger and frustration we are seeing.
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The party rumours have been doing the rounds for a while. Surely by now photos would have emerged of them out on the lash if that had actually happened.
Ultimately though, whether through misfortune as a result of the reported false negative, or stupidity in failing to observe the regulations on social distancing etc, the risks to the rest of the Sale squad, to the Worcester squad tomorrow evening and then potentially to either Wasps or Exeter on Saturday remain the same and the game should not be played. If the false negative story proves to be true (and it would be senseless to make up something that would be all too easy to prove/disprove), then my sympathy to Sale and their fans that this will cost them a playoff place. However, Sale's playoff place should not be a higher priority than the well-being of their wider squad and that of their opponents.
Excellent post
Hence why Worcs seem to be saying they might boycott anyway - which further makes the situation untenable
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A pretty good debate on the Sale situation on Eggchasers this week:
-- Seen as a battle of the lawyers - i.e. Sale claiming to have followed PRLs rules to the letter, so essentially saying if they're not allowed to fulfill their fixture they'll sue and have have PRL 'bang-to-rights'
-- PRL seeking to accommodate not because of any bias to Sale, but for fear of Legal Reprisal
-- Questions over even if it was due to a false-negative (which again could be another Legal angle to take to PRL as they contracted for the League as a whole) surely the social distancing in training has meant that at best 4-5 other players (in the positive players contact bubble) should have been affected. Not 18 players + 1 member of staff.
The last point contradicts the first. Sale claim to have followed the letter of the law, so how do they explain the spread of the virus.
Ultimately, none of them thought the game would get played.
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Noon and no Sale team yet.
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But they now do and fairly strong.
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Bench are un-heard of, but that's to be expected.
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Luke James, 14. Denny Solomona, 13. Sam James, 12. Sam Hill, 11. Marland Yarde, 10. Robert du Preez, 9. Will Cliff; 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Cameron Neild, 3. Valerey Morozov, 4. Matt Postlethwaite, 5. Jean-Luc du Preez, 6. Jono Ross (Capt.), 7. Tom Curry, 8. Daniel du Preez.
Replacements:
Ewan Ashman, 17. Cal Ford, 18. Joe Jones, 19. Ewan Murphy, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Joe Bedlow, 22. Tom Curtis, 23. Connor Doherty.
there is a caveat:
*Subject to Sale Sharks entire squad undergoing further COVID 19 testing on Tuesday 6th October testing, If the club feel it is not safe to play or receive one additional positive test, Sale Sharks will forfeit their Gallagher Premiership Round 22 match with Worcester Warriors in order to ensure the health and safety of all concerned.
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The party rumours have been doing the rounds for a while. Surely by now photos would have emerged of them out on the lash if that had actually happened.
Ultimately though, whether through misfortune as a result of the reported false negative, or stupidity in failing to observe the regulations on social distancing etc, the risks to the rest of the Sale squad, to the Worcester squad tomorrow evening and then potentially to either Wasps or Exeter on Saturday remain the same and the game should not be played. If the false negative story proves to be true (and it would be senseless to make up something that would be all too easy to prove/disprove), then my sympathy to Sale and their fans that this will cost them a playoff place. However, Sale's playoff place should not be a higher priority than the well-being of their wider squad and that of their opponents.
At no point did I entertain the 'party' rumours. My earlier comments ignored the how of the 19 positives. By Friday, they were what they were. My issue was that Sale should have accepted that 19 was most likely not all. They had decided how they thought it had happened (a false negative), but not about the consequences. Solomons brings that sharply in to relief. This is about players and their families. Sale's decision to not cede the game was taken on purely financial and the wish to compete in the semis grounds. That the PRL let them take that stance is highly questionable.
We simply are not privy to the details to know any more, but I maintain that it is unlikely that all 19 were asymptomatic, and thus some visible signs would have been present before the Saints game. The statement by Diamond pretty much confirms my view, that at no point are Sale concerned (showing as the priority) about the wider welfare and safety issue. That alone is worrying.
I hope that, in the next few minutes, we will have the answer that was needed in the first place on Friday, and let this episode get buried under the very thick rug down at HQ.
Solomons also confirmed the source of the rumour as being a Whatsapp post by a Sale player at 6:30 in the morning about having just left an after party (the post has apparently been widely circulated among the clubs).
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How the living feck can Sale play Ross Harrison, but Saints can't play their front row?
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I think it is tomorrow before today's tests are in.
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Luke James, 14. Denny Solomona, 13. Sam James, 12. Sam Hill, 11. Marland Yarde, 10. Robert du Preez, 9. Will Cliff; 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Cameron Neild, 3. Valerey Morozov, 4. Matt Postlethwaite, 5. Jean-Luc du Preez, 6. Jono Ross (Capt.), 7. Tom Curry, 8. Daniel du Preez.
Replacements:
Ewan Ashman, 17. Cal Ford, 18. Joe Jones, 19. Ewan Murphy, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Joe Bedlow, 22. Tom Curtis, 23. Connor Doherty.
there is a caveat:
*Subject to Sale Sharks entire squad undergoing further COVID 19 testing on Tuesday 6th October testing, If the club feel it is not safe to play or receive one additional positive test, Sale Sharks will forfeit their Gallagher Premiership Round 22 match with Worcester Warriors in order to ensure the health and safety of all concerned.
Quite a few big name omissions like JCW, De Klerk, Beaumont, Ben Curry, Hammersley, De Jager, McGuigan, McGinty, Oosthuizen, Ross, Van Rensburg, Webber & Weise. Positive tests or rotation for a potential 3 day turnaround?
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Luke James, 14. Denny Solomona, 13. Sam James, 12. Sam Hill, 11. Marland Yarde, 10. Robert du Preez, 9. Will Cliff; 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Cameron Neild, 3. Valerey Morozov, 4. Matt Postlethwaite, 5. Jean-Luc du Preez, 6. Jono Ross (Capt.), 7. Tom Curry, 8. Daniel du Preez.
Replacements:
Ewan Ashman, 17. Cal Ford, 18. Joe Jones, 19. Ewan Murphy, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Joe Bedlow, 22. Tom Curtis, 23. Connor Doherty.
there is a caveat:
*Subject to Sale Sharks entire squad undergoing further COVID 19 testing on Tuesday 6th October testing, If the club feel it is not safe to play or receive one additional positive test, Sale Sharks will forfeit their Gallagher Premiership Round 22 match with Worcester Warriors in order to ensure the health and safety of all concerned.
Looks like tight 5 was hard hit then with only Harrison, Morozov (LH starting at TH) and JL du Preez surviving from the Saints 23. Langdon, Oosthuizen, JCW, VD Merwe, Wiese and Phillips all absent, plus Faf, Hammersley and van Rensburg in the backs (and Manu injured).
If we assume that the front row absentees in particular are due to positive Covid tests, then how on earth can Harrison and Morozov, who packed down alongside them last week, be free to play. PRL or someone now needs to step in and say "no".
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Quite a few big name omissions like JCW, De Klerk, Beaumont, Ben Curry, Hammersley, De Jager, McGuigan, McGinty, Oosthuizen, Ross, Van Rensburg, Webber & Weise. Positive tests or rotation for a potential 3 day turnaround?
16 positive Covid tests among the playing squad doesn't really allow for any level of rotation at all. I imagine Sale are just playing who they are left with.
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JCW, De Klerk, Beaumont, Ben Curry, Hammersley, De Jager, McGuigan, McGinty, Oosthuizen, Ross, Van Rensburg, Webber & Weise
some of those are injured Ben Curry, De Jager & I think McGuigan, but yes, there seem to be a number of big names that presumably are caught up in this.
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Eddie Jones comments on 3 players in his training squad that may not be allowed into camp because of Covid concerns (doesn't name them)
"If the players' want to come [into camp] that carries a responsibility - I'm not saying there are going to be perfect, but it's a choice they make," Jones added.
"Yes there are difficulties [with being in a bubble], but goodness me you just have to look around the world and see what difficulties there are.
"So we should be gracious about this opportunity. And if the players don't want to be gracious about it they won't be here."
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JCW, De Klerk, Beaumont, Ben Curry, Hammersley, De Jager, McGuigan, McGinty, Oosthuizen, Ross, Van Rensburg, Webber & Weise
some of those are injured Ben Curry, De Jager & I think McGuigan, but yes, there seem to be a number of big names that presumably are caught up in this.
I wondered how 1 Curry was okay to play and the other wasn't but if it's down to an injury that makes sense.
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They have however chosen players who also played against saints and surely should also be isolating?
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Eddie Jones comments on 3 players in his training squad that may not be allowed into camp because of Covid concerns (doesn't name them)
"If the players' want to come [into camp] that carries a responsibility - I'm not saying there are going to be perfect, but it's a choice they make," Jones added.
"Yes there are difficulties [with being in a bubble], but goodness me you just have to look around the world and see what difficulties there are.
"So we should be gracious about this opportunity. And if the players don't want to be gracious about it they won't be here."
My assumption was that this was the Northampton lads, given Ribbans was playing in that pack against a number of Sale forwards who we can assume are among the positive test cases based on the team announced. Also Mitchell at 9 would've been in prolonged close proximity. Dingwall, Francis and Furbank also all played in that game. Last thing anyone needs is for this to lead to an outbreak tearing through the England squad, so I'm sure they will be very cautious.
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They have however chosen players who also played against saints and surely should also be isolating?
I think they review video footage to establish how close infected players came to other individuals and for how long in order to determine who needs to self-isolate. I can understand that outside backs could be seen not to have been close enough to anyone for long enough to pose a risk, loose forwards is pushing it. However, the fact that Sale feel able to select 2 of the 6 front rows and 1 of the 3 second rows from the game against Northampton is incredible.
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I find it impossible to believe that none of those who played against Saints spent any time in a ruck or maul with a player who is now positive.
This is a farce and it is risking people's lives.
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I find it impossible to believe that none of those who played against Saints spent any time in a ruck or maul with a player who is now positive.
This is a farce and it is risking people's lives.
And the longer it drags on it the worse it looks.
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What did they all do at half time? Were there two changing rooms one for the infected and one for the uninfected players? If not they have all sat in a small space indoors for a full 15 minutes. That's enough to trigger self isolation requirements under government rules.
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It's possible that the Sale players from the Saint's game who are selected tested negative last time. However, they would need to test negative again to assume that conclusion otherwise the risk is too great, particularly if the cause of the outbreak is down to a false negative result.
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What do you think would happen if Worcester, Wasps and Exeter all refused to play against Sale who then took the trophy by default. At what point do PRL wake up to the PR nightmare that they are creating?
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What do you think would happen if Worcester, Wasps and Exeter all refused to play against Sale who then took the trophy by default. At what point do PRL wake up to the PR nightmare that they are creating?
or what if the local (Coventry/Exeter) Public Health decided to intervene?
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It's possible that the Sale players from the Saint's game who are selected tested negative last time. However, they would need to test negative again to assume that conclusion otherwise the risk is too great, particularly if the cause of the outbreak is down to a false negative result.
I was under the impression that if you had been exposed to a confirmed case then you were legally obliged to isolate for 14 days regardless of positive or negative tests. It is only those people who develop symptoms with no known exposure who can stop isolating after a negative test.
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It is quite apparent that Sale have done there own investigation on who does and doesn't need to isolate and nobody is going to question their findings or decision. So unless they see a rise in cases when the test results return, Wuss will need to decide if they want to play.
If not Sale can play on Saturday having had a nice long break albeit with reduced squad. If they play wasps I think we should push for further testing on Friday given the incubation period before positive tests come up.
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It is quite apparent that Sale have done there own investigation on who does and doesn't need to isolate and nobody is going to question their findings or decision. So unless they see a rise in cases when the test results return, Wuss will need to decide if they want to play.
If not Sale can play on Saturday having had a nice long break albeit with reduced squad. If they play wasps I think we should push for further testing on Friday given the incubation period before positive tests come up.
What if ... they get no new cases today/tomorrow, and either Wuss cede the game (I would if I were them) or Sale win anyway, and then they test again on Friday, and then have to withdraw and cede to us ....
Just how atomic would Bath go?
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It's possible that the Sale players from the Saint's game who are selected tested negative last time. However, they would need to test negative again to assume that conclusion otherwise the risk is too great, particularly if the cause of the outbreak is down to a false negative result.
I was under the impression that if you had been exposed to a confirmed case then you were legally obliged to isolate for 14 days regardless of positive or negative tests. It is only those people who develop symptoms with no known exposure who can stop isolating after a negative test.
That's what I thought as well. Frankly how the positive tests came about is irrelevant (do the clubs themselves take the samples from players? )
I can't believe PHE haven't asked to intervene but then again it has transpired that one PHE area has been using old Excel spreadsheets to compile data and didn't realise that a spreadsheet has a limited amount of data it can hold
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I have to say, if Sale get to play and win, I hope they get the bonus point, because I will take great satisfaction in Wasps being the ones to send them packing.
However, I'd much rather they have to forfeit, and basically come 6th again (ignoring sarries deduction).
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They have however chosen players who also played against saints and surely should also be isolating?
This question really needs to be answered by Sale/PRL/PHE as it makes 0% sense.
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They have however chosen players who also played against saints and surely should also be isolating?
This question really needs to be answered by Sale/PRL/PHE as it makes 0% sense.
Does anyone have the covidsecure rules for premiership rugby. They are obviously different to the rules for the general public. Genuine question..
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They have however chosen players who also played against saints and surely should also be isolating?
This question really needs to be answered by Sale/PRL/PHE as it makes 0% sense.
Does anyone have the covidsecure rules for premiership rugby. They are obviously different to the rules for the general public. Genuine question..
Just been trying to see if anything is online. I found some rules on England Rugby, not sure if this applies to Premiership clubs;
https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/coronavirus (https://www.englandrugby.com/participation/running-your-club/coronavirus)
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Time is of the essence now. What is the deadline for Wuss with a 19.45 KO at Sale? Has to be by 10.00 tomorrow morning at the latest.
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Time is of the essence now. What is the deadline for Wuss with a 19.45 KO at Sale? Has to be by 10.00 tomorrow morning at the latest.
Has anyone checked out the pitch? Its been raining a lot and we know what its like for a team to drive all the way up there and then sit around while officials haggle about whether it starts or not ;D
Wouldn't want Wuss to have to do the same if they decide that Covid isn't a problem ::)
PS I was at that game with my mate who was a Sale STH and I'd been given the STH of his mate, so I was right in the thick of it.
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Time is of the essence now. What is the deadline for Wuss with a 19.45 KO at Sale? Has to be by 10.00 tomorrow morning at the latest.
The local rag in Worcester says that Sale will give the results sometime tomorrow, probably late morning. Enough time to inconvenience Worcester if they have to turn back in their coach and van.
A few people at that club (Sale) seriously need to examine their consciences, assuming any of them have one.
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Piers Francis has tested positive. Came on for Saints as a replacement centre...
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I am guessing that the Sale Sharks need to rebrand and call themselves the Sale Super Spreaders (has a certain alliterative appeal to it). Maybe they could sign Trump up as their Press Agent?
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12.00 today is the deadline :
Sale Sharks face 64-hour break before Premiership semi-finals
Wednesday October 07 2020, 12.01am, The Times
The disruption caused by Covid-19 to the end of the Gallagher Premiership’s league phase could affect the semi-finals this weekend after Premier Rugby announced that both play-off matches will be held on Saturday afternoon.
Sale Sharks, whose final league game at home to Worcester Warriors was postponed until this evening after an outbreak of coronavirus among their players, are understood to be concerned about the impact on player welfare of the short turnaround before the play-offs if they can clinch a top-four place with a victory over Worcester.
The first semi-final, between Wasps and either Bristol or Sale, will kick off at the Ricoh Arena, less than 64 hours after this evening’s game will have concluded. The second semi-final kicks off three hours later between Exeter Chiefs and one of Bath, Bristol or Sale. The revelation that three Northampton Saints players had been diagnosed with coronavirus after playing against Sale last Tuesday night has left tonight’s game in the balance.
The fixture was postponed after 19 people at Sale, 16 of whom were players, tested positive last week. Sale have pledged to forfeit the game if an additional positive result is recorded. Premier Rugby expects to receive the results of the Sale tests by noon today.
If there are no further positive tests, a decision will be made by Premier Rugby in conjunction with Public Health England and the RFU, which has been investigating the source of the outbreak, as to whether the game can go ahead.
However, Worcester will also consider their options. The club have serious reservations about playing the fixture, which escalated after Sale named a team that included 13 players who featured against Northampton.
Northampton’s three confirmed positive cases include Lewis Ludlam and Piers Francis, who dropped out of the England camp yesterday. Worcester are thought to have concerns over the presence in the Sale team of props Ross Harrison and Valery Morozov, who both played at Franklin’s Gardens last week. Worcester requested details of Sale’s track-and-trace protocols and wanted assurances that there had been no contact between the players selected for tonight’s game and those who tested positive last week. That information was given to Worcester last night.
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Worcester and Wasps seeking assurances - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/06/worcester-want-answers-before-agreeing-to-face-sale-in-play-off-decider
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Mail Online are reporting that Sale have called the game off and ceded it to Worcester due to 3 more Covid cases:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8813697/Covid-hit-Sales-final-Premiership-game-against-Worcester-tonight-set-CALLED-OFF.html
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Mail Online are reporting that Sale have called the game off and ceded it to Worcester due to 3 more Covid cases:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8813697/Covid-hit-Sales-final-Premiership-game-against-Worcester-tonight-set-CALLED-OFF.html
That article only states what we already know, set to be called off if further positives are detected.
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Piers Francis has tested positive. Came on for Saints as a replacement centre...
Saw that - surely they can't go ahead?
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Mail Online are reporting that Sale have called the game off and ceded it to Worcester due to 3 more Covid cases:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8813697/Covid-hit-Sales-final-Premiership-game-against-Worcester-tonight-set-CALLED-OFF.html
That article only states what we already know, set to be called off if further positives are detected.
The article also says:
Their latest tests took place Tuesday morning, with the results expected in the early hours of Wednesday and MailOnline Sport understands that Sale have received the news they were dreading.
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Let's hope not only from the POV of safety but also fairness.
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FiveLive news saying PRL game board meeting following Sale's results.
Looks like Sale won't be playing.