Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Rossm on June 03, 2019, 11:10:36 PM
-
Ricoh Arena row: New deadline set
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/ricoh-arena-row-coventry-city-16371605 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/ricoh-arena-row-coventry-city-16371605)
This really has to come to a conclusion and soon.
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
-
At some point EFL are going to become fed up with CCFC/SISU's shenanigans.
I don't understand why CCFC are releasing statements implying negotiations are ongoing giving hope to their fans and EFL that the Ricoh will be their ground next season, when it seems very unlikely that anything will be agreed unless SISU change their spots and withdraw their EU court action (is that even possible?)
It looks like CCFC have about 2 weeks to let the EFL know. The other thing to note is that Birmingham City haven't released information (from what I can see) about even being approached by CCFC, let alone signing a provisional deal.
Wouldn't CCFC fans having to watch their home games at Brum FC be like us having to play our home games at tiggers?
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
Reading press reports it seems that the tour in general is having a lot of issues. I suspect the venue has little involvement in it. The tour promoter will do most of it. Sadly, it still reflects on the venue.
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
Reading press reports it seems that the tour in general is having a lot of issues. I suspect the venue has little involvement in it. The tour promoter will do most of it. Sadly, it still reflects on the venue.
I think the main issue is the one that they had decades ago.. only one of them can sing.. but in terms of the "arena" experience then this seems to happening at each place they've appeared at, so its down to their tour managers who will be organising everything including stewards and ticketing.
I wonder how much Wasps would have made out of it. Would it just be a flat fee or would Wasps take a commission on ticket, drink and food sales
-
Notwithstanding the sound problems which are the responsibility of the tour manager I can see many tweets concerning access problems which is the Ricoh staff. To open the doors and let people in without checking sounds desperate. Hope tonight is better organised.
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
What reports are these? First hand from 5x happy campers who went last night had a great time, no issues with organisation... just some very sleepy ladies this morning!
-
Ricoh Arena row: New deadline set
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/ricoh-arena-row-coventry-city-16371605 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/ricoh-arena-row-coventry-city-16371605)
This really has to come to a conclusion and soon.
Bit like Brexit really! It’ll get to a point shortly where any definitive decision will be better than an ongoing no decision
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
What reports are these? First hand from 5x happy campers who went last night had a great time, no issues with organisation... just some very sleepy ladies this morning!
As Neil mentions above, apart from the usual food / drink / toilet / parking queues, the main complaint all over Twitter and Facebook is turnstiles not working leading to massive queues outside as acts started then to gates being opened and security / ticket checks being abandoned.
-
At some point EFL are going to become fed up with CCFC/SISU's shenanigans.
I don't understand why CCFC are releasing statements implying negotiations are ongoing giving hope to their fans and EFL that the Ricoh will be their ground next season, when it seems very unlikely that anything will be agreed unless SISU change their spots and withdraw their EU court action (is that even possible?)
It looks like CCFC have about 2 weeks to let the EFL know. The other thing to note is that Birmingham City haven't released information (from what I can see) about even being approached by CCFC, let alone signing a provisional deal.
Wouldn't CCFC fans having to watch their home games at Brum FC be like us having to play our home games at tiggers?
I don't believe they can withdraw as it is a complaint to the commission not a court action, once brought to their attention the issues stands (or falls) on its own merits (or lack of).
-
Correct. Raise a question for the EU and it runs its course and can take years and years. You are unable to retract your query or request. SISU knew exactly what they were doing and the possible timescales.
-
The case will take years to even be looked at and whilst the review will centre on CCC, it indirectly affects Wasps. What on earth were SISU thinking?
I can't think of a proposal offered by SISU that would allow an agreement to be reached with Wasps.
If the rumours of ground sharing with Brum FC are true, I really hope Brum FC have got all the nuts and bolts on the contract screwed in really tightly else SISU might start proceedings to claim half of their ground.
If I was Brum FC I'd want money up front
-
Wouldn't CCFC fans having to watch their home games at Brum FC be like us having to play our home games at tiggers?
Judging by our game at Tiggers this year, if it came with the home reffing, their place might not be too bad. We would walk the league!
-
If the reports of how poorly the Spice girls concert at Ricoh was organised last night are correct there is going to be a lot more to deal with as well.
What reports are these? First hand from 5x happy campers who went last night had a great time, no issues with organisation... just some very sleepy ladies this morning!
As Neil mentions above, apart from the usual food / drink / toilet / parking queues, the main complaint all over Twitter and Facebook is turnstiles not working leading to massive queues outside as acts started then to gates being opened and security / ticket checks being abandoned.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/spice-girls-coventry-ricoh-complaints-16374973
-
Sounds like they used the same sound system they use for announcements at matches
-
Sounds like they used the same sound system they use for announcements at matches
I can envisage it now.. Kurky screaming half way through one of the Spice Girls songs
"Allez Allez Allez"
"Spice!"
"Allez"
"Spice"
"Allez Allez Allez"
"Spice Spice Spice"
-
I've got friends who went and they had a great time. It was certainly busy but they enjoyed the experience. I've been to a number of big gigs and access to food, beer and toilets is always a premium, the worst was Old Trafford Cricket Club where the queue for beer was so long I had to stay dry all day... Even dedicated gig venues such as the O2 Academy in Birmingham are awful for getting refreshments when full.
-
That CoventryLive report is everything that is wrong with the media and the people of this country these days (god I sound like my parents).
The "Complaints from fans" consists of 2 wildly contradictory complaints. Firstly "considering what happened in Manchester" the security checks were too lax to non-existent and secondly the queues were moving so slowly people missed the support act. Hmmm so you want everybody and everything checked but don't want to have to wait whilst it happens?
And then to top it off the Arena is at fault because 25K+ people all leaving a venue at the same time leads to trouble finding a taxi. Are you kidding me?
If people were being let in without ticket or bag checking that should be an area for concern and needs properly investigating. But accept that proper security requires a lot longer entry time, you can't try and turn up 5 mins before the act goes on anymore. Same happens at Twickenham now. Get there early to avoid disappointment.
-
Getting out of a carpark following any concert is a pain where ever you go but you expect it as pedestrians are given priority.
It took me an hour and a half to get out of the carpark last sunday after going to Wembley SSE Arena
-
The Spice Girls probably lose all gravitas without Posh, just like Sugarbabes post-Mutya, why worry about toilets and car-parks when the artistic quality is depleted so?
-
The "Complaints from fans" consists of 2 wildly contradictory complaints. Firstly "considering what happened in Manchester" the security checks were too lax to non-existent and secondly the queues were moving so slowly people missed the support act. Hmmm so you want everybody and everything checked but don't want to have to wait whilst it happens?
I think ideally you'd want everyone's bag to be searched and that there should be adequate security to perform the searches in a timely manner.
I went to a Madness concert in Dun Laoghaire (Dublin) on Saturday and even three hours after the concert there wasn't a taxi to be found. Next morning I realised it was Champions League final earlier and all the taxi drivers must have had the day off to have a drink.
-
The "Complaints from fans" consists of 2 wildly contradictory complaints. Firstly "considering what happened in Manchester" the security checks were too lax to non-existent and secondly the queues were moving so slowly people missed the support act. Hmmm so you want everybody and everything checked but don't want to have to wait whilst it happens?
I think ideally you'd want everyone's bag to be searched and that there should be adequate security to perform the searches in a timely manner.
I went to a Madness concert in Dun Laoghaire (Dublin) on Saturday and even three hours after the concert there wasn't a taxi to be found. Next morning I realised it was Champions League final earlier and all the taxi drivers must have had the day off to have a drink.
Did you go "One step beyond" searching for taxis?
-
It can be hard work getting a cab in Dublin at the best of times let alone during a big event (or events).
-
The whole saga is a bit depressing now. Disenchanted fans, a once proud set up now hawking itself around for somewhere to play, the main participants constantly warring with each other and no real prospect of them ever giving up. But enough about the concert.....
-
The case will take years to even be looked at and whilst the review will centre on CCC, it indirectly affects Wasps. What on earth were SISU thinking?
I can't think of a proposal offered by SISU that would allow an agreement to be reached with Wasps.
If the rumours of ground sharing with Brum FC are true, I really hope Brum FC have got all the nuts and bolts on the contract screwed in really tightly else SISU might start proceedings to claim half of their ground.
If I was Brum FC I'd want money up front
They were thinking that if the european court follows through, it continues to make wasps less attractive to sponsers, whilst also potentially forcing wasps to pay another £27m or so, or at the very least, likely hundreds of thousands in legal fees. All pressurising wasps and the ricoh business. No different to what they were doing before wasps turned up.
EDIT - I do wonder if they've thought it through though, if their argument wins, there's no way they can get the Ricoh onthe cheap... it'll be state aid.
-
EDIT - I do wonder if they've thought it through though, if their argument wins, there's no way they can get the Ricoh onthe cheap... it'll be state aid.
Except of course it won't be state aid as they would be buying it from Wasps, not a state entity. But you're right I think, this is just another page from the playbook of financially ruin the stadium owner so they can swoop in on the remains when they die.
Parasite as a tenant, vulture as a neighbor. Good luck Birmingham City.
-
EDIT - I do wonder if they've thought it through though, if their argument wins, there's no way they can get the Ricoh onthe cheap... it'll be state aid.
Except of course it won't be state aid as they would be buying it from Wasps, not a state entity. But you're right I think, this is just another page from the playbook of financially ruin the stadium owner so they can swoop in on the remains when they die.
Parasite as a tenant, vulture as a neighbor. Good luck Birmingham City.
or Wasps could surrender the lease back to CCC, or sell it back at cost, who would then be able to charge SISU the "proper" economic rate.
-
The latest - no change, no news.
From the Coventry Telegraph.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/efl-coventry-city-ricoh-arena-16386436 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/efl-coventry-city-ricoh-arena-16386436)
-
EDIT - I do wonder if they've thought it through though, if their argument wins, there's no way they can get the Ricoh onthe cheap... it'll be state aid.
If wasps go bust it reverts to CCC. If they don't then the value is £54m or so as just proven by the court case.
No way they get it cheap.
Except of course it won't be state aid as they would be buying it from Wasps, not a state entity. But you're right I think, this is just another page from the playbook of financially ruin the stadium owner so they can swoop in on the remains when they die.
Parasite as a tenant, vulture as a neighbor. Good luck Birmingham City.
-
Or Wasps retain half ownership of the stadium with the other share reverting to the council who collect a rent from Wasps...
-
Ricoh Arena talks still ON insists Coventry City chief
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-ricoh-wasps-groundshare-16409547 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-ricoh-wasps-groundshare-16409547)
-
Mark Robins needs to get his facts right :
He said: “I would like to say first and foremost, I am deeply disappointed for our supporters who had hoped, quite rightly, that we would be playing our home games at the Stadium that was built for Coventry City to play in.
“Secondly, it is a complete and utter disgrace that the Ricoh Arena, which again, was built as the home of Coventry City Football Club, is owned by a Rugby Club that has its roots in Buckinghamshire. How can that happen?
“Coventry is ‘City of Sport’ in 2019 – this is an absolute joke.”
-
Not a &€£$#€£ clue.
-
I'm sure people running Wasps down help the situation massively.
Not...
-
I'm sure people running Wasps down help the situation massively.
Not...
Wasps or CCFC? If Wasps, why? If anything, this statement doesn't really help things apart from stir up even more bad blood amongst some of the sky blue supporters.
The fact the CCFCemployees have put their names to the statement makes me think it was signed off by the CCFC boss and possibly even higher up than that.
I'm struggling to believe that the stumbling block is anything other than the recently revealed EU commission complaint.
The only other thing that I could think it might be is a something to do with the amount Wasps want CCFC to pay in rent.
The rumour is that CCFC were only paying £100k, but this amount may have been a condition put on Wasps as a part of the sale (to try and help CCFC get back on their feet). The season just gone was a 1 yr extension of the original contract.
Perhaps Wasps have asked for something similar to what Brum FC have (rumour again) asked for.
An agreement may be reached during the summer but as both leagues' fixture lists will have to be finalised soon, it seems very unlikely.
-
The Wasps statement suggests they had (at least temporarily) put aside the EU application. I suspect Wasps did increase the rent but probably imposed other conditions which SISU but possibly not the football club found unpalatable.
-
I think the CCFC statement (Robins is only the mouthpiece in this case) is precisely aimed at pointing the finger at a 'bad guy'. Wasps is the obvious one as we own the ground and won't agree to their terms. It diverts the blame for all this from the true villains, SISU. The statement basically says it is wrong that we own the ground, but omits the reasons that this eventually came to pass. It's just their (rather effective) PR push.
-
The Wasps statement suggests they had (at least temporarily) put aside the EU application. I suspect Wasps did increase the rent but probably imposed other conditions which SISU but possibly not the football club found unpalatable.
I think we were looking for SISU to indemnify us against the fall out of a successful case. As they want us out and are actively trying to distress Wasps they wouldn't agree to that.
-
The Wasps statement suggests they had (at least temporarily) put aside the EU application. I suspect Wasps did increase the rent but probably imposed other conditions which SISU but possibly not the football club found unpalatable.
I think we were looking for SISU to indemnify us against the fall out of a successful case. As they want us out and are actively trying to distress Wasps they wouldn't agree to that.
Basically if they agreed to it, it'd be the end of them, rather than the end of us, should the courts decide we have to pay £27m extra. In fact, Wasps may just survive such a thing (sell half the Ricoh), but CCFC probably wouldn't.
-
I think the CCFC statement (Robins is only the mouthpiece in this case) is precisely aimed at pointing the finger at a 'bad guy'. Wasps is the obvious one as we own the ground and won't agree to their terms. It diverts the blame for all this from the true villains, SISU. The statement basically says it is wrong that we own the ground, but omits the reasons that this eventually came to pass. It's just their (rather effective) PR push.
The statement has been made by 2 employees of CCFC, Tynan Scope and Mike Reid. I suspect the comment by Robbins has been added to the article at the end to give it a bit more gravitas and probably comes from a different conversation at a different time.
It does come across as finger pointing though.
-
The Wasps statement suggests they had (at least temporarily) put aside the EU application. I suspect Wasps did increase the rent but probably imposed other conditions which SISU but possibly not the football club found unpalatable.
I think we were looking for SISU to indemnify us against the fall out of a successful case. As they want us out and are actively trying to distress Wasps they wouldn't agree to that.
Basically if they agreed to it, it'd be the end of them, rather than the end of us, should the courts decide we have to pay £27m extra. In fact, Wasps may just survive such a thing (sell half the Ricoh), but CCFC probably wouldn't.
I agree, they couldn't agree to that...but I thought that was the sticking point. Maybe along the lines of if you aren't suing us and you are confident that your actions won't impact Wasps (which was the intent of the 'no more litigation' clause), then you would be happy to agree to indemnify Wasps. Clearly Sisu know damned well that the outcome could impact Wasps, as that is their intent, and so could never agree to those conditions.
-
The Wasps statement suggests they had (at least temporarily) put aside the EU application. I suspect Wasps did increase the rent but probably imposed other conditions which SISU but possibly not the football club found unpalatable.
I think we were looking for SISU to indemnify us against the fall out of a successful case. As they want us out and are actively trying to distress Wasps they wouldn't agree to that.
Basically if they agreed to it, it'd be the end of them, rather than the end of us, should the courts decide we have to pay £27m extra. In fact, Wasps may just survive such a thing (sell half the Ricoh), but CCFC probably wouldn't.
I wonder what the effective outcome would be if the EU commision ruled that it was state aid.. (I've read somewhere that sporting developments/funding tend to be exempt from the EU interpretation of "State Aid")
What could the EU commision do?
Presumably it will rely heavily on whether we are still part of the EU when the decision is made though?
A quick search has turned up this.
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-commission_en (https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-commission_en)
The important bit is
Enforces EU law
Together with the Court of Justice, ensures that EU law is properly applied in all the member countries.
-
If I remember correctly it comes back to the UK courts BUT CCC can appeal that judgement at EU level so roll on for decades.
-
What's slightly confusing is SISU couldn't appeal the decisions made in the UK courts because the European Court of Justice isn't appelate (whatever that means??).
So how can the EU commision make a decision, then ask the EU court to make UK courts to reverse their original decision, if they weren't in a position to do so in the first place?
I did a search on the EU commisions website but it only lists cases where they've made a decision not ones that have been lodged.
It seems they make a lot of decisions on mergers.. i.e. not letting Asda/Sainsbury merge but possibly letting Fiat/Renault merge (errr???)
-
What's slightly confusing is SISU couldn't appeal the decisions made in the UK courts because the European Court of Justice isn't appelate (whatever that means??).
So how can the EU commision make a decision, then ask the EU court to make UK courts to reverse their original decision, if they weren't in a position to do so in the first place?
I did a search on the EU commisions website but it only lists cases where they've made a decision not ones that have been lodged.
It seems they make a lot of decisions on mergers.. i.e. not letting Asda/Sainsbury merge but possibly letting Fiat/Renault merge (errr???)
My understanding is that they made two different complaints.
The first was to the UK courts saying that Coventry Council had an process that did not allow a fair competition for a valuable asset. In this case they are the complainant seeking damages since they were unable to bid and lost out.
Their complaint to the EU is that Coventry Council provided an illegal business subsidy. In this case they are not a complainant asking for personal compensation (they're not allowed to be) but they are a whistle-blower claiming that Coventry Council gave a UK business an unfair business advantage against EU competition law.
Subtle difference!
-
And now an MP has a go at Sisu in the House of Commons:
Coventry City owners Sisu are 'bleeding club dry', claims MP
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/sisu-coventry-city-christian-matheson-16491216 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/sisu-coventry-city-christian-matheson-16491216)
Good job he's got parliamentary privilege. other wise he'd get battered in court.
-
I did wonder what the MP of Chester was doing fighting CCFC's corner but he's speaking on behalf of other clubs as well.
I'm not sure what the EFL, Premier League and FA can do (if indeed they are really bothered) to check the background of potential buyers and their intentions. Legally they can't ask to inspect every aspect of someone's financial background (unless special laws are passed regarding the ownership of sports clubs)... and if an owner wants to lose £50m (which I don't believe for one moment is the figure - that figure is a bargaining chip SISU to later use) and drive their asset into the ground that's up to them.
As the MP rightly says.. no-one knows who the investors of SISU are and where the money has come from.. Is it illegally laundered money run through Panamanian banks, maybe a multi-national media empire that fancied snapping up various clubs around europe without their identity being known for fear of a conflict of interest being flagged up.
There is a reason why SISU won't reveal the investor (s) which in itself should raise red flags.
What could be put in a proposed bill?? Perhaps no one entity should be able to own more than 35% of all shares?
Enforce that at least 15% of shares be owned by supporters who can hold no more than say £1k - £2k max worth of shares
Spreading the ownership would at least reduce the risk of a single entity steamrolling decisions through, and that in itself might dissuade a rich meglomaniac from trying to take over a whole club.