Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Mikeuk56 on June 07, 2019, 12:11:35 PM
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https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/live-coventry-birmingham-st-andrews-15921750
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That will end in tears. More fool the Blues owners.
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Confirmed: https://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/2019/june/statement-coventry-city-confirm-groundshare-at-st-andrews-trillion-trophy-stadium-for-201920-season/
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Good. At least it is now decided. Kind of reads they didn't like Wasps terms. Wonder if we will know genuinely now the crap spouted by CovObserv.
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I would assume there will be a Wasps statement at some point.
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There needs to be because the "other side" are already putting their spin on it.
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From CCFC statement:
...in order for a deal to be agreed between landlord and tenant, the conditions for the deal need to be deliverable by the tenant. What the landlord requested of CCFC’s owners and ultimately, the Club, was simply not deliverable. It can be argued that the landlord was fully aware of this.
Disingenuous.
It can be argued that the club's owners, knowing of the condition, deliberately took action that took the matter out of their hands in order to pretend they couldn't meet the condition.
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EFL - 'reluctantly agreed groundshare'
The EFL says its board has reluctantly agreed to allow the club to groundshare at St Andrew’s.
It has also placed a number of conditions on the club “to ensure progress is made in regard to finding a solution to getting the Club back playing in Coventry at the earliest opportunity”.
That includes a £1m bond and a quarterly review in order for the EFL to be updated on developments ahead of season 2020/21.
Is the bond to take care of Sisu getting up to silly buggers? In effect a deposit?
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The footy owners are currently playing a blinding game getting the national press blaming Wasps for asking too much and trying to bankrupt them.
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Nick Eastwood statement in the Coventry Live coverage. SISU refused to promise no further action. Game over sadly.
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The wasps statement:
This process has been as frustrating for us, as it has been desperately sad for Coventry City supporters, and as damaging as it is to the city as a whole.
As everyone is aware, we made it a pre-requisite of talks that the owners would stop pursuing proceedings around the ownership of the Ricoh Arena. We understood the owners shared that desire based on the letter it sent to us.
Talks began in April and we entered those discussions in good faith. Since then we have been working to get that deal over the line and we did not halt discussions even when it emerged that the owners had filed a complaint to the European Commission as far back as February but not informed us of that.
Despite significant progress being made in the discussions, we have unfortunately been unable to reach an agreement with the owners which, putting aside the complaint to the European Commission, would deliver the fundamental principle that there would be no further proceedings about the ownership of the Ricoh Arena.
We have talked to Coventry City supporters groups to underline our position and our desire to keep the club at Ricoh Arena. We would be prepared to continue discussions at any time if the owners are prepared to agree to the principle on which we began these discussions.
The club wanted to stay at Ricoh Arena, we wanted them to remain here and all supporters’ groups wanted to secure their future here. This is a very sad day for Coventry.
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It's an absolute travesty.
CCFC fans don't want it, but they have my full sympathy.
I have no problem with Wasps' stance. Given what has happened since we've been at the Ricoh, I fully understand and agree with their firm footing in this matter.
I just can't understand the CCFC owners.
As I understand it, all sports clubs bleed money. The only way to make money in football is to sell the club for an inflated price.
I get that SISU feel they need the Ricoh to be able to do that, but the money they are bleeding will soon be more than the value of the stadium so they'll be out of pocket even if they get their way.
Sucks for the fans
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It is sort of us or them, and that is it. Hopefully ccfc will be sold to someone more amenable.
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Just when Mark Robins seemed to be putting a team together. I wonder if he will stay.
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Can't help feeling I am jinxed as both a Wasps and a BCFC supporter (guilty Wendy Ball secret). I am now nervous that SISU will pop up at my favourite places to have a beer and something to eat!
BCFC under Chinese ownership, who may be ill-informed of SISU's history and previous behaviour, here's hoping they have done robust due diligence.
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Terrible for CCFC fans who are being treated like dirt but I fully understand and support Wasps stance. Wasps have done nothing but try to be accommodating and continually have it thrown back in their face. Financially I can't see it having any negative impact on us.
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Financially it must have some negative impact on Wasps even if it's just the rent!
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NE said this time last year that financially the footy club added little to the accounts (forget exact words). In fact legally it has certainly been costing Wasps. With EU action possibly taking up to 5 plus years to clear it could well cost Wasps more. Although whether there are any costs associated with sitting around waiting for the EU is a moot point.
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Financially it must have some negative impact on Wasps even if it's just the rent!
Yes, they'll lose what was a very low rent. Conversely it frees up 20 odd days when they can use the Ricoh for other purposes. We never got ticket revenue and only a share of food etc. There's a strong chance we'll be better off for it.
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I think it's a shame because a good thing can really work between CCFC and Wasps but not while SISU are there.
Glad it's sorted in this respect though
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Financially it must have some negative impact on Wasps even if it's just the rent!
DR told me in no uncertain terms that Wasps don't make any direct money from having them there.
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Which backs up what NE stated last year. Consistent.
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They were paying 100k a season and we made about 35k in food and drink i think. They covered their own match day costs.
Can't imagine it would take much to cover that. If you factor in the legal costs they were definitely not worth it.
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It would be fascinating to know what their deal with Birmingham is. Does anyone know the price they paid to play at Northampton?
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As I have said elsewhere, our pitch will only be used for rugby. No need for it to be remarked and posts changes for footy.
Play our A team games at the Ricoh. Get revenue from food and drink sales. Open up one stand only so lower stewarding costs etc.
I doubt if we would be worse off financially than have CCFC there.
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The 1 yr deal with Brum FC will surely effect CCFC's finances and possible future as well because if the Northampton move is anything to go by attendances will surely be affected.
Brum FC will (hopefully) have looked into what's happened between between SISU and Wasps and won't have signed a contract lightly.
You would have thought they'd want a lot more than the quoted £100k rent that Wasps may have been charging, and possibly even a deposit up front.
I don't follow CCFC's fortunes but I'm guesing SISU aren't throwing lots of investment at the squad and staff either.
I wonder how Brum FC supporters feel about having CCFC playing their home games at St Andrews. I presume their have their own fan forum as well. That might make for interesting reading
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Brum FC will (hopefully) have looked into what's happened between between SISU and Wasps and won't have signed a contract lightly.
Taken from the EFL statement:
It has also placed a number of conditions on the club “to ensure progress is made in regard to finding a solution to getting the club back playing in Coventry at the earliest opportunity”.
That includes a £1m bond and a quarterly review in order for the EFL to be updated on developments ahead of the 2020/21 season.
Is the £1 million bond a form of deposit to try and keep Sisu in line?
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Is the bond with EFL or Brum.. I'm not sure why EFL would want a bond (if SISU step out of line then CCFC lose their place in the league - EFL don't have anything to lose really) but I'm guessing Brum FC would have wanted some financial assurance.
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I'd suspect the bond is there to ensure that Sky Blues fulfill their fixtures for the coming season, if SISU fall out with Blues or plead poverty due to not covering their costs at St Andrews then the bond gets kept by the EFL and Sky Blues will likely get thrown out of League 1. Blues will probably get a share of the bond for being accommodating.
Whole situation is a mess, despite the vitriol shown by some of their fans I do feel for them and wish that a way of keeping then in Coventry could have been found. However, the fact remains that if your tenant continues to try and wrestle your property away then why would you keep them in situ.
CCC had an asking price for the Ricoh. Wasps were prepared to pay it and therefore the stadium is ours. SISU had their chance to buy it a few years earlier but reneged.
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I get tired of the keyboard warriors and try to avoid them as they get me more annoyed than they really should.
CCFC had ample opportunity to purchase the stadium but expected it for peanuts. Just because you bear the name of the area doesn't entitle you to free stadiums!
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Does anyone know why the rent to CCFC was so low for the season?
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Do I remember it correctly that at the time we purchased the stadium, CCFC were bankrupt / insolvent and didn't have the funds to purchase the stadium anyway
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I get tired of the keyboard warriors and try to avoid them as they get me more annoyed than they really should.
CCFC had ample opportunity to purchase the stadium but expected it for peanuts. Just because you bear the name of the area doesn't entitle you to free stadiums!
I wouldn't take a look on the DW site then.. a supporter from Cov RFC has waded into the debate now.
The slightly ironic element to the ongoing saga and SISU latest challenge, is that they believe the sale price was undervalued and as such counts a "state aid", but on the flipside of the coin they want CCC to help them build a new stadium.. errr?
TBH, if anyone has an axe to grind it would be Cov RFC. The supporter who's posted has implied we've encrouched on their recruitment area. I'm guessing we have, but the transfer of the recruitment area has only just been recently re-assigned (12 months ago perhaps) and the 2 clubs operate in 2 different divisions.
Over the last decade or two any talent that has been nutured in the Cov/Warwickshire area has gone elsewhere to ply their trade (Leic, Saints usually) as up until a few years ago Cov RFC wasn't a particulalry attractive proposition. I maybe be slightly factually incorrect but since leaving Coundon Rd I think Cov RFC have gone bust twice. Its only recently with a bit of new investment they've started to climb back up the leagues.
I was reading some of the comments on a national online newspaper where people have posted from a neutral standpoint wondering how CCFC have got themselves into this position (mainly it was from a football supporters viewpoint).
Quite a few recall CCFC being one of the stalwarts of top division football in the late 70's and 80's, which is correct. They were at one point the longest serving club in the top league (I think Man City relegated Man Utd in the late 70's), and then it occured to me Cov RFC went through exactly the same decline during the same period.
My father told me that at one point Cov RFC in the early or mid 70's provide about a 3rd of the England team.
I wonder if both clubs decline was related to the gradual decline of the heartbeat of the city.. manufacturing and engineering, which meant investment and available spending money in the area dropped off and its only been in the last 10 years or so that the Cov area has started to pick itself back up again.
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Well, a quick look on a Blues forum, many seem to think they are getting £1.3m a year. When someone said it is £100k, they suspect that is per game. Good luck with getting any of that.
How the other half live!
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Does anyone know why the rent to CCFC was so low for the season?
The figure of £100k has been banded around, but that might just be an urban myth on our forums. Its seems ludicrously low but a possible way of explaining it was that CCC inisisted that was part of the deal of Wasps buying the long lease (Wasps haven't actually bought the bricks and mortar) to try and help CCFC get back on its feet.. but obviously that contract ran out 2 season ago.. Wasps gave them an extension for last season.
Do I remember it correctly that at the time we purchased the stadium, CCFC were bankrupt / insolvent and didn't have the funds to purchase the stadium anyway
Again, we will never know but either way SISU didn't offer the funds to buy it at the price that was offered (techincally any price is offered by the buyer and the seller can choose to accept and the price we see on any product is known as an "invitation to treat", this also applies to prices we see in supermarkets as well ) so whether CCFC were solvent or not is a moot point.
You would think any hedge fund would have the asking price amount as spare change in their back pockets though, which makes me think SISU was set up with backers money to plunder any sporting establishment in the UK, which was awash with TV money. Didn't SISU try and buy Southampton FC before turning its attention to CCFC.
Joy's background doesn't imply she was a superstar of the financial world and was possibly plucked from middle management obscurity (was it Goldman Sachs in New York?) to front a new "hedge fund"
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Well, a quick look on a Blues forum, many seem to think they are getting £1.3m a year. When someone said it is £100k, they suspect that is per game. Good luck with getting any of that.
How the other half live!
Could CCFC even operate having to pay £1.3m per season let alone £100k per game (which surely works out at more than £1.3m over a season) . Is the £1.3m per season somehow related to the £1m bond they have had to pay? I.e... a bond that almost covers Brum FC's rent for a season?
How much does a div 1 player get paid?
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The slightly ironic element to the ongoing saga and SISU latest challenge, is that they believe the sale price was undervalued and as such counts a "state aid", but on the flipside of the coin they want CCC to help them build a new stadium.. errr?
That always makes me chuckle, along with the other contradiction that Wasps will definitly go bust soon, yet the stadium, conference centre, hotel, and casino are wonderful businesses and bring in a fortune.
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How much does a div 1 player get paid?
I think salaries range per player from 50 to 100 k p/a. There are a couple of answers on Quora to that question. Pinch of salt and all that.
There is quite a big gap compared to the Championship.
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The figure of £100k has been banded around, but that might just be an urban myth on our forums.
No it was a figure quoted by NE some time last year - can't recall when but it was in a conversation about how much CCFC actual represented to Wasps. Not much!
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I see Joy Seppala appeared on Sky Sports News this morning (it might have been pre-recorded though) talking about the position CCFC find themselves in and a bit of "woe is me" from her perspective.
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https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/joy-seppala-sky-sports-ccfc-15921750
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11747843/coventry-owner-joy-seppala-apologises-for-stadium-tragedy
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Strange SBT posters lusting after her!! Also some surprised she is American! Weird people.
Derek is a Saffa isn't he.
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I wonder when the interview was filmed? From the short clips and the scribed version of it, the interview doesn't really seem to have a purpose or goal. Was this requested by Sky Sports? I doubt it. Did SISU or Seppala herself offer the interview to Sky Sports?
I initially expected it to be a rallying call to arms against the council and Wasps but unless there's a part of the interview that hasn't been released it came across as simply as something to placate the fans and to try and create a bit of empathy/sympathy for Joy.
I wonder if the harrassment (anger) from CCFC fans is getting a little too much and this is an attempt to try and calm things down.
If someone has broken into her propery then hopefully the police will have dealt with it but in terms of CCFC fans venting their anger, then SISU/Joy has brought that upon themselves by their actions.
I wonder if this is a tentative start in the process to offloading their asset, as she mentions that they weren't going to own CCFC forever and that they want to try and ensure its future even if they aren't there.
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The woman according to CovLive says Wasps wanted to buy CCFC. As numerous judges have said she is an unconvincing liar.
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The woman according to CovLive says Wasps wanted to buy CCFC. As numerous judges have said she is an unconvincing liar.
You need deep pockets to fund a football club; it makes owning a Rugby club look like needing only pocket money.
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Totally agree but her saying it will get the rabid mob going.
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I wonder when the interview was filmed? From the short clips and the scribed version of it, the interview doesn't really seem to have a purpose or goal. Was this requested by Sky Sports? I doubt it. Did SISU or Seppala herself offer the interview to Sky Sports?
I initially expected it to be a rallying call to arms against the council and Wasps but unless there's a part of the interview that hasn't been released it came across as simply as something to placate the fans and to try and create a bit of empathy/sympathy for Joy.
I wonder if the harrassment (anger) from CCFC fans is getting a little too much and this is an attempt to try and calm things down.
If someone has broken into her propery then hopefully the police will have dealt with it but in terms of CCFC fans venting their anger, then SISU/Joy has brought that upon themselves by their actions.
I wonder if this is a tentative start in the process to offloading their asset, as she mentions that they weren't going to own CCFC forever and that they want to try and ensure its future even if they aren't there.
Maybe the fans are voting with their feet and not buying STs. Hence the need to apologise, to try to persuade them to buy seats.
Oddly, referring the case to the EC, they may have made the club harder to sell/less valuable.
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"As part of the interview package, reporter Rob Dorsett said that Ms Seppala estimates the hedge fund has lost more than £50million while in charge of the club."
Never reinforce failure. In other words, don’t throw good money after bad. It’s almost impossible to make a bad plan succeed by throwing more resources at it, and the result is almost always to make a failure larger. Time to cut and run, Joy.
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Good to see NE coming out quickly and saying Wasps are not interested in purchasing CCFC - more fabrication from Joyless.
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I wonder what other debts CCFC have other than what SISU have invested.
Someone on the other site quoted an article a while ago that estimates that SISU are owed about £19m tops.
The slight problem that SISU didn't think through when they raised the issue with the EU Commission, is that they can't stop the process now. Technically they aren't the "claimants".. they simply brought the situation to the attention of the EU so they can't approach the EU explainng that they made a mistake and wish the investigation to stop.
Whilst this is going on (which could take years) I can't see Wasps entertaining the idea of hosting CCFC with SISU as owners and even possibly, without SISU as owners.
This is surely going to ht the finances of CCFC extremely hard and I can't see SISU pumping more money in
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If the EU decides that the sale of the stadium to Wasps was unlawful state aid then SISU would, of course, launch further legal proceedings against the council and possibly Wasps demanding compensation. The longer they are playing away from Ricoh paying (presumably) high rent the more compensation they will demand. Interestingly, and worryingly for CCFC fans, if SISU wants to maximise the compensation then it wouldn't be bad for SISU if CCFC went bankrupt in the next few years, before the case is decided. That has the added bonus that SISU would no longer need to finance the football team's day to day business in order to make a profit from the asset.
Alternatively they could sell the club and, should the EU decide in their favour, claim they were forced to sell the club for less than it should be worth, and claim compensation on those grounds.
Fun fun fun!
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It has to be said, that, where countries have built stadia in development areas (as the Ricoh is/was), the transfer then to a sports club has often been at knowing undervalue and the government declared this in advance and received permission to proceed anyway. Not that we think that it was at undervalue.
I cannot see the EC saying it was at undervalue or unlawful. The evidence before them will be the same as the English Courts have already looked at. But, it will take them ages to say that.
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Derek is a Saffa isn't he.
Our Derek?
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Derek is a Saffa isn't he.
Our Derek?
;)
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Our Derek is Irish (Cork), although now a resident of Monaco
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Talking of "our Derek", I had completely forgotten about an article about him I was sent a link to back when the move from AP to the Ricoh was new.
Link: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/the-irish-millionaire-at-the-heart-of-wasps-revival-30933178.html (https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/the-irish-millionaire-at-the-heart-of-wasps-revival-30933178.html) - can you spot the mistake at the top of the article?
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Our Derek is Irish (Cork), although now a resident of Monaco
Off beat humour?
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Our Derek is Irish (Cork), although now a resident of Monaco
Off beat humour?
So off beat its gone straight over my head as well? I'm presuming there is an insinuation somewhere with being a Saffa owner but I can't make a link? Maybe its further back in the topic thread?
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Strange SBT posters lusting after her!! Also some surprised she is American! Weird people.
Derek is a Saffa isn't he.
This far back.
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The woman according to CovLive says Wasps wanted to buy CCFC. As numerous judges have said she is an unconvincing liar.
Clarification from Nick Eastwood:
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704)
Not surprised, as landlords, that Wasps would have been approached.
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The woman according to CovLive says Wasps wanted to buy CCFC. As numerous judges have said she is an unconvincing liar.
Clarification from Nick Eastwood:
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704)
Not surprised, as landlords, that Wasps would have been approached.
It makes sense for any potential CCFC purchaser to get Wasps on board offering a small share of CCFC but I personally feel Wasps would be mad to do so. Just keep it simple as a landlord/tenant contract offering good enough terms to let CCFC prosper.
Given CCFC's current predicament I can't see anyone now making an offer. A potential buyer will want to see how the land lies this time in 12 or 24 months time as it's almost certain CCFC's market value is going to fall.
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The woman according to CovLive says Wasps wanted to buy CCFC. As numerous judges have said she is an unconvincing liar.
Clarification from Nick Eastwood:
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704 (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/wasps-response-joy-seppala-claims-16481704)
Not surprised, as landlords, that Wasps would have been approached.
It makes sense for any potential CCFC purchaser to get Wasps on board offering a small share of CCFC but I personally feel Wasps would be mad to do so. Just keep it simple as a landlord/tenant contract offering good enough terms to let CCFC prosper.
Given CCFC's current predicament I can't see anyone now making an offer. A potential buyer will want to see how the land lies this time in 12 or 24 months time as it's almost certain CCFC's market value is going to fall.
Totally agree - touching not and bargepoles come to mind!