Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Gaz on October 16, 2019, 01:03:27 PM
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Watching Cheslin Kolbe, and listening to commentators and pundits pouring admiration and praise on him - and rightly so in my opinion, does anyone else wonder what a certain Mr Wade would have been capable of if given a chance?
Both the same height, similar skills and both speedsters over 40m - though I don't know who is the fastest, I've not seen Kolbe play live but I have seen Wadey score tries that I have not seen before or since. We'll never know whether he could have translated that to the international stage but every time I see Kolbe I can't help wondering ...
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I think if Christian had been of any other nationality he'd have more than his share of caps by now. Same applies to a certain fly half formerly of this parish IMO.
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Watching Cheslin Kolbe, and listening to commentators and pundits pouring admiration and praise on him - and rightly so in my opinion, does anyone else wonder what a certain Mr Wade would have been capable of if given a chance?
Both the same height, similar skills and both speedsters over 40m - though I don't know who is the fastest, I've not seen Kolbe play live but I have seen Wadey score tries that I have not seen before or since. We'll never know whether he could have translated that to the international stage but every time I see Kolbe I can't help wondering ...
He played at the Ricoh last season and scored a brilliant try. You could see that he was a very special player.
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I think Chris W would have been one of the first on the team sheet for Scotland, Ireland, Wales or indeed France. And having bumped into Chris at an A team game a couple of season's ago, I never got anyone thinking he was "small". Not tall, but built and with a better defensive positioning game - for me anyway - than May.
He was unlucky with his injury pre 2015, but to not actually get him into the squad and see if the leading try scorer in the Prem might be of use seems a bit of a waste.
Still my favourite player - you could hear the crowd draw breath when the ball went to him.
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Kolbe can catch a high ball and tackle better.
Wasps supporters are quick to forget that Wade more often produced magic against average sides but very little against top sides...which I believe contributed to his non selection.
Magic aside, he just wasn't complete enough..
Shoot me down ;D
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Wasps supporters are quick to forget that Wade more often produced magic against average sides but very little against top sides...which I believe contributed to his non selection.
Poor effort - 5 min looking at his record suggests he was as happy to score vs Sarries and Leinster and Tigers as anyone else
But - that was just a bit of fun....what's an "average side" then?
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I think if Christian had been of any other nationality he'd have more than his share of caps by now. Same applies to a certain fly half formerly of this parish IMO.
Plus one.
Memory plays some tricks, but I can remember Wadey scoring crackers against then superb sides. Moreover Wadey was excellent under the high ball too, ridiculous spring and reliable catcher. His tackling used the chop tackle and got better. Positionally he was suspect at the start.
In the spirit of Hymenoptera's post to shoot me down I will offer this so that you can shoot at me too-no offence tsken- Wade is the best all round back three player to have worn the black and gold in the pro era, simply because he could beat people in a phone box and created space and fear. Whatever deficiencies he had, perceived or otherwise, they were outweighed by what he offered elsewhere to the point that he was more valuable to us than any other back three options. Had he been around in the glory years, he would have achieved the status he deserved.
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Wasps supporters are quick to forget that Wade more often produced magic against average sides but very little against top sides...which I believe contributed to his non selection.
Poor effort - 5 min looking at his record suggests he was as happy to score vs Sarries and Leinster and Tigers as anyone else
But - that was just a bit of fun....what's an "average side" then?
For a bit of fun - 2016/17 season. Picked as it was our best season in recent years.
Wade tries
Rd2 - Away vs Tigers
Rd3 - 2x home vs Bristol
Rd5 - Home vs Quins
Rd11 - 3x Home vs Bath
Rd12 - Away vs Falcons
Rd13 - Home vs Tigers
Rd14 - Away vs Exeter
Rd16 - Home vs Glaws
Rd17 - Away vs Bath
Rd18 - 2x Home vs Worcester
Rd19 - Home vs Saints
Rd20 - Away vs Bristol
Rd22 - Home vs Saracens
Champions Cup
Rd1 - Away vs Leinster
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Not really poor. I don't need to review records as i saw the games and in terms of contribution, much like fiver, often made little impact. I can grab a load of stats and make them tell what ever story I want too.
I think you can determine what an average side is without explanation.
I understand people are sensitive to criticism of Wade. Outside of the Wasps community he isn't as idolised as he is here as much as he is recognised for his talent and that alone tells a story.
I am able to remove my wasps glasses quite easily and I can honestly say MY Opinion is he wasn't as good as he's made out to be...consistently anyway. He scored alot of tries admittedly, but that's not the whole story. He got overlooked by Intl coaches for a reason, mainly because he wasn't complete enough, he excelled in some area's and was damn average in others.
Another statement that will upset Wade groupies, I don't think he should be held in such esteem either. He left the club hanging mid season with no notice, mid contract and showed no respect to his employer...bit of a dickmove in my books. I wish him well but don't buy into the 'hard done by' mantra, he was where he deserved to be.
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I have no issue with how or why he left, honestly.
Daly, yes, absolutely. Then again, I am of the opinion that Daly's time at Wasps included some of the worst displays I have seen from a Wasp full back, and an awful last season to boot at centre/wing, so perhaps that slants my view of tge departure.
I think outside of Wasps Cipriani was/is hugely admired, just anecdotally. Wade may not be in that class, but I doubt he would be far off, again just from my abecdotal meetings of fans and reading of the boards.
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Christian deserved a chance. He didn't get it and it didn't look like he ever would. I don't believe he had a fair crack of the whip. Should have been given a chance and if he failed then so be it.
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I find myself split on the Wade issue. Firstly I think he left in a far worse way than Daly. In contract, just after the start of the season, few other options. Had he simply gone at the end of the prior season I'd have had no issue at all. In terms of performance he was electric and should definitely have had more caps. His defence was on par with most wingers of his generation.
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Lancaster was a great guy but far too conservative to give Christian a chance. He picked him, but had he had a real interest he would have given him a shot.
Eddie simply believed in caps, and to a large extent just took Lancaster's squad at the start.
I feel Dan Robson will go the same way as Christian and Cipriani.
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I find myself split on the Wade issue. Firstly I think he left in a far worse way than Daly. In contract, just after the start of the season, few other options. Had he simply gone at the end of the prior season I'd have had no issue at all. In terms of performance he was electric and should definitely have had more caps. His defence was on par with most wingers of his generation.
Very strong rumour at the time that he asked to be released from his contract the season before he left. The request was declined. He then went off to the US to spend the summer. We saw glimpses of his training there and it was impressive but obviously not really for us. He started the season as we saw and his heart obviously was not in it so I suppose the club decided to cut their losses.
Personally hold no animosity, wish he had stayed but you only have one short life and with his recent engagement I doubt he will be back over here.
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Lancaster was a great guy but far too conservative to give Christian a chance. He picked him, but had he had a real interest he would have given him a shot.
Eddie simply believed in caps, and to a large extent just took Lancaster's squad at the start.
I feel Dan Robson will go the same way as Christian and Cipriani.
I read an article about Jonny May and that his big break making it to the England squad occured in Argentina on tour. I think Wade was there and earned his first cap. May was yet to earn his first cap.
May's parents had flown out to Argentina but May hadn't been picked for the matchday squad. Some of the players who weren't picked for the next game decided to go out on the beers but May decided to go out for a meal with his parents.. Wade then gets a last minute call to go and join up the British Lions.. Seeing as May doesn't have a hangover.. gets picked for England
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I find myself split on the Wade issue. Firstly I think he left in a far worse way than Daly. In contract, just after the start of the season, few other options. Had he simply gone at the end of the prior season I'd have had no issue at all. In terms of performance he was electric and should definitely have had more caps. His defence was on par with most wingers of his generation.
TBH both Wade's and Daly's moves leave's a slightly sour taste as both moved mid contract (Wade's decision leaving Dai no chance to replace him) and I'm wondering whether the balance of power between club and players is slightly shifting towards the players (top end stars).
If a player wants to leave a club mid-contract they simply have to make themselves persona non grata within that club who have no alternative but to let them go before a non compliant and non-performing player starts affecting the rest of the squad, so in that sense I don't think you can balme Dai for letting both leave but I'd hope there was some sort of recompense towards the club for the player breaking their contract.
Did Sarries or Daly have to buy himself out of his contract I wonder?
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I’ll admit I’m sensitive to Wadey criticism as he was the first club idol I had, as a younger fan Wadey was a constant in my support of Wasps.
Even when he wasn’t in form, he was still so important to the team as defences would be keeping an eye on him. No surprise Daly and Bass scores so many tries down the left wing when Wadey came off his own wing. Defenders would get drawn into him and open space/holes on the far side for Daly and Bass to exploit.
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Not really poor. I don't need to review records as i saw the games and in terms of contribution, much like fiver, often made little impact. I can grab a load of stats and make them tell what ever story I want too.
I think you can determine what an average side is without explanation.
I understand people are sensitive to criticism of Wade. Outside of the Wasps community he isn't as idolised as he is here as much as he is recognised for his talent and that alone tells a story.
I am able to remove my wasps glasses quite easily and I can honestly say MY Opinion is he wasn't as good as he's made out to be...consistently anyway. He scored alot of tries admittedly, but that's not the whole story. He got overlooked by Intl coaches for a reason, mainly because he wasn't complete enough, he excelled in some area's and was damn average in others.
Another statement that will upset Wade groupies, I don't think he should be held in such esteem either. He left the club hanging mid season with no notice, mid contract and showed no respect to his employer...bit of a dickmove in my books. I wish him well but don't buy into the 'hard done by' mantra, he was where he deserved to be.
I too didn't like the way he left either.
I'd guess we'd disagree about who he scored against and if they were "average" and the stats do refute that the scores were any more biased than anyone else vs better teams. I'd guess May's record vs Sarries isn't great! But its probably not the greatest effort is it, if you make a assertion that can be at least reviewed by the stats, and they don't really make a strong case to support your assertion suggesting then stats can tell any story. All I've done is look at his scoring record, which doesn't seem to support the initial assertion
Then - if you're really saying he wasn't a complete enough player - then fine - that's a more than reasonable offer - but a little hint of moving those goal posts?
But like Goode, who did get a chance, and wasn't quite up to it - I personally would have liked to have known. His form probably meant he didn't get a chance, going from England tour to the Lions - Gatland thought him worth the call - after a good game on tour vs Argentina and 18 tries in 26 games for us that season before the injury problems later on
My personal view is that like May - he'd have developed in the international squad as May was pretty one dimensional early doors - or like others - quickly dropped off the radar, c.f. Denny S.
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Not really poor. I don't need to review records as i saw the games and in terms of contribution, much like fiver, often made little impact. I can grab a load of stats and make them tell what ever story I want too.
I think you can determine what an average side is without explanation.
I understand people are sensitive to criticism of Wade. Outside of the Wasps community he isn't as idolised as he is here as much as he is recognised for his talent and that alone tells a story.
I am able to remove my wasps glasses quite easily and I can honestly say MY Opinion is he wasn't as good as he's made out to be...consistently anyway. He scored alot of tries admittedly, but that's not the whole story. He got overlooked by Intl coaches for a reason, mainly because he wasn't complete enough, he excelled in some area's and was damn average in others.
Another statement that will upset Wade groupies, I don't think he should be held in such esteem either. He left the club hanging mid season with no notice, mid contract and showed no respect to his employer...bit of a dickmove in my books. I wish him well but don't buy into the 'hard done by' mantra, he was where he deserved to be.
Saw the games as well and whilst I agree about the leaving thing as I think both Wade and Daly screwed over the team that gave them their break, I also think Wade should have had many more caps, or at least given a decent chance.
The try stats don't tell the total story anyway as in a number of games when Wade had the ball and had run at the defence, he had drawn in numerous defenders which left it open elsewhere for others to take advantage, be it an off load the following phase. The fact Wade was on the pitch and could potentially do something gave the opposition a headache, which helped Wasps.
He got constantly derided for his defense, never sure it was as bad as it was made out, as people just jumped on that bandwagon. I'd also say that if you look at May or Solomona their defence was as bad or worse. (at the time, as I think May has improved, Solomona not so sure).
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It's funny that the tone of feeling seems to be less animosity to Wade's leaving than Daly's and mostly it seems because Wade didn't get his shot with England. I always thought leaving the England tour to jump at a Lions midweek match was a mistake, who knows if it would have made a difference, but he'd certainly have had at least 1 more England cap to his name.
At the the time he left it was reported that Daly had a break clause (whether for training facilities or not) and that he exercised the break, and so he did not walk out on a contract. Wade very much did.
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I don't seem to have the same animosity/disappointment about the leaving of either Wade or Daly that some on here are showing. Although I greeted his parents at the Argentina game with the "not sure I should be talking to you now you are with the enemy" we had a good chat / laugh and as it turned out Daly was probably the best player on the pitch that day..... My view is that you only have one life and you need to get on with it before it is too late..... As for the comparison of Kolbe to Wade.... what they had/have in common is box office talent, two of the most exciting players that I have had the pleasure to watch over the last 15 years... small in stature but dynamite. Wade was unlucky with selection to the lions and injury which dented his opportunities, Also a succession of England coaches have more often than not gone with a safety first attitude.... only time will tell if Eddie should have taken fiver or even given Wade a chance..... Jonny May seized his opportunity and has not looked back. I still remember the hat trick Wade scored against Leicester at Adams Park various tries against Leinster in Dublin... talk of average competition is just one mans opinion !! Pound for Pound i think Kolbe is probably a better all round player than and I was excited to see him play live in Japan against our new signing Minozzi. Having survived the Typhoon i shall be at the Ricoh on Sunday, looking forward to this years crop of Black and Gold